Feeling lethargic/ weird on cycle....

Ray52

New member
So I've been on this cycle :
1-10 test e 500 split( will ramp up to 650 towards end)
3-10 ANAVAR 40 mg then to 50 and 60
HGH all year. 4 ius split Ed

I feel lethargic these days. I am definitely getting ripped and fucking jacked up, my diet is on point and I only drink water..... My sleep is on point.....I just don't know why I feel tired, a little depressed, just all in all a little down.......this is my first time adding anything in other than test so maybe that's it?
I also have had a mild case of test flu this week which sucks....does anyone else feel this way on cycle? A few times I've had to literally force myself to the gym..... I hope I start to feel better.....
 
are you taking any anti's and if so what is your dose? Im wondering if you crushed your E2 levels..

when was the last time you had bloods?

BTW... we cant just look at your cycle and see whats going on, there is so many variables, bloods will be a true indicator of whats doing on..
 
No need to "ramp up" to 650mg in such a short run for one. It takes 4-5 weeks just to start "feeling" Test. Going to 650mg any later than week 3 would be completely pointless.. and even still a little dumb being that there won't be a huge difference in such a short time anyhow.

Sorry this isn't your main question but I had to throw that in. Just do 500mg for 12 weeks instead I would suggest. End it with the Anavar still if you want. You'll see much better results doing it this way.

Unless of course you're doing it with a drug test coming up.. then I understand only 10 weeks, but next time go a hair longer.


In terms of "feel", lethargy.. it can be a ton of things. You need to be more specific about EVERYTHING. Like, paint us a real picture by including the way you eat, how much you sleep per day, are you under stress at work or in your home life, and have you gotten bloodworks to check your estrogen? Are you taking an AI? Too much? Do you eat a lot of simple sugars and caffeine? Sodas and such? Lots of things could be causing the bad feels. Hope that you can help us help you a little better.
 
Thanks for your reply......and advice. I got bloods done before the cycle and everything checked out normal....I don't drink soda my diet is really clean right now.... A lot of fruit veggie protien ect. I work out Monday thru Friday...... No caffeine.... I definitely sleep pretty well....... I had a problem with anxiety before and thru my life I have been thru a lot so I sometimes feel a little depressed but not too much..... I haven't had anxiety for almost a year and on this cycle I have had it a bit......I'm 27 years old.... I'm trying to think of anything that may help you. I will take your advice and only do 500 I was going to only do 10 weeks so I already started my ANAVAR at 40mg a day .....I know HGH makes you a bit lethargic so that could be it..... I have an AI on hand but I haven't had any issues with gyno so I haven't taken Any, should I anyways ??

What is E2? My estrogen levels ??
Btw thanks for all your help
 
If anything Id bet your lethargy is due to HIGH e2 (estradiol) levels as you have not ran any AI up to this point. An AI does much more than just keep gyno away. It prevents Testosterone from converting to estrogen. If e2 gets too high it can cause high blood pressure, lethargy, moodiness, anxiety, ED, enlarged prostate.......All side effects you want to PREVENT, not attack once they appear.

What week are you on of this cycle?

Also, dont ramp up doses, keep everything the same the whole way through.
 
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I'm wondering if you may have some sort of vitamin/mineral deficiency, or something blood borne...

Try taking some chew-able vitamins, and adding some vitamin B... Get some B complex in there see if this improves..

Do you find yourself chewing on ice often or crave it for that matter?
 
I was feeling the same bro, but was also running tren for quite abit of time
The last month of running tren I felt run down, wanted to nap all the time and hard as fuck waking up without feeling sorta tired, come.to find out through bloods.my liver emzimes were up, and iron was low
Now back on my.cruise dose of 200mg/ week test e for the last month and a half and feel fine, sleepy Ness, and that tired feeling finally went away and feel.great now
 
What does anti.anxiety.meds have to play in it was also wondering.the same.thing as I.take 150mg effexor.ed.which I thought.that's what was causing.my issues
Thanks
 
Yea I heard tren is insane...... I take Xanax once a week just to Kind of reset but that's it. I'm glad you got that taken care of bro. I don't think I have a deficiency since I take a lot of vitamins but I guess I really don't know. Im sure my live is a little out of wack but I take liver pills and I don't drink or take drugs..... 10 mins ago I took 0.5 of arimedex so hopefully I feel better. You think that's enough ? And also what is the duration of which I should take it? I definitely think I had high estrogen tho I've been bitchy and roid ragy a little bit***128533; ........a little anxious an depressed too all signs of high estro ...... I even was put up against the wAll by the cops yesterday because of a road rage incident but everything was cool..... Anyways thanks guys for all your help. I think I feel better now after I took that arimedex how fast does it work?
 
If I may make a suggestion, I would not speculate entirely that this is estrogen-related unless you have blood work, if you do not possess any estrogen-related side effects that would be a good indicator that levels could be elevated in regards to a balanced ratio, such as sensitivity in the ducts around your nipples, or slight blotation / water retention, otherwise I would not treat something that you are unsure of merely on speculation...
 
If I may make a suggestion, I would not speculate entirely that this is estrogen-related unless you have blood work, if you do not possess any estrogen-related side effects that would be a good indicator that levels could be elevated in regards to a balanced ratio, such as sensitivity in the ducts around your nipples, or slight blotation / water retention, otherwise I would not treat something that you are unsure of merely on speculation...

I do agree that there is no way of knowing if e2 is high without blood woork. But, he is possessing an estrogen related side effect; lethargy. He is running 500mg of Test a week with no AI. There a VERY good chance his e2 is high.

He should have been running an AI from.day one as a preventative measure. When exogenous is put into the body it converts into estrogen, plain and simple. He most definitely should start running an AI right now and then follow up with blood work to see where he sits.

To the OP, everyone aromatizes at a different rate so a correct AI doses will vary from.person to person as well, be somewhat dependant of dose of an aromatizing compound. You dont want to crash you e2, some in good. I would suggest running Arimidex @ .25mg every other day then once you get blood work you can see whether you need to raise or lower dose or neither. But, an AI must be run from start to finish. My nipples dont tingle is NOT a good indicator of whether you estrogen is high or not.

And btw. Roid rage is a myth. If you have rage and anger management issues to begin with AAS could amplify them. So if thats the case dont take them. Steroids did not make 'cops throw you up against a wall'. That was you, if it did in fact happen. Be smart.

Btw,how long have you been running GH? You said all year but did you just start and plan to be on for a year or you have been on all year? This could also be a cause of the issue.
 
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Yeah as stated above by many only way to tell is through bloodwork, your only on your 3rd week u stated so something is off bro
 
I do agree that there is no way of knowing if e2 is high without blood woork. But, he is possessing an estrogen related side effect; lethargy. He is running 500mg of Test a week with no AI. There a VERY good chance his e2 is high.

He should have been running an AI from.day one as a preventative measure. When exogenous is put into the body it converts into estrogen, plain and simple. He most definitely should start running an AI right now and then follow up with blood work to see where he sits.

To the OP, everyone aromatizes at a different rate so a correct AI doses will vary from.person to person as well, be somewhat dependant of dose of an aromatizing compound. You dont want to crash you e2, some in good. I would suggest running Arimidex @ .25mg every other day then once you get blood work you can see whether you need to raise or lower dose or neither. But, an AI must be run from start to finish. My nipples dont tingle is NOT a good indicator of whether your estrogen is high or not.

And btw. Roid rage is a myth. If you have rage and anger management issues to begin with AAS could amplify them. So if thats the case dont take them. Steroids did not make 'cops throw you up against a wall'. That was you, if it did in fact happen. Be smart.

First and foremost we need to establish something here, when there is an outside source "exogenous", administration of testosterone it does not necessarily convert per your notion... testosterone has three courses of action " its main course of action being testosterone" , converting to DHT, or converting to estrogen... so to speculate with the assumption that this is entirely estrogen-related hands down no questions asked is the most narrow minded approach in this entire thread...

Without seeing a full female panel blood work no one should be telling him what he needs to do, in lieu suggestions would be appropriate for counter measures.... if you read my prior posts I'm doing process of elimination, instead of diagnosing in which none of us ability to do considering the circumstances and the information that is provided...

Let's not go by textbook, instead let's look at real life experiences outside of our very own..

In regards to sensitivity in the nipples its a keen indicator in the vast majority of individuals with high estrogen levels as well as water retention.. we do not even know if he possesses the enzymes that are converting his test into estro, now should he use anti as a precaution? It's always wise to have them on hand.. keep in mind he is going to have elevated estrogen this is due to the administration of testosterone, this is known as the system balance and checks, when one level goes up so will the other, this is not entirely bad and it's often blown out of proportion and targeted for all the wrong reasons.. the static system likes o have a fine balance within the internal network..shall I say the terminology?

To the OP... You mentioned that you are on 4ius EOD..what time is your injection? Try lowering your HGH to 2ius ED and take at night ( due to the 24 hour loop and its like 3 to 4 hours after administration), it may make you tired throughout the day if you take AM injections...I question if this is due to your thyroid..EVERYTHING is pointing that way IMO because you been on high for this long above therapeutic dosages... growth hormone can directly af
fect t3/t4 levels over time... the body will lower t4 levels over time due to the conversion into t3, these levels will run low overtime if there is not aexogenous source...I would suggest taking t4 and your body will process and convert what it needs... this it's basically protocol when on long durations of growth hormone, especially when someone is taking well above therapeutic dosages...

Get some blood work done as soon as you can and keep us posted
 
Yeah as stated above by many only way to tell is through bloodwork, your only on your 3rd week u stated so something is off bro

I'm going to put money on this that is related to his thyroid, as I quoted shredders comment above but he must have edited it during the process of me typing out my explanation explaining my standpoint...
 
Yea I heard tren is insane...... I take Xanax once a week just to Kind of reset but that's it. I'm glad you got that taken care of bro. I don't think I have a deficiency since I take a lot of vitamins but I guess I really don't know. Im sure my live is a little out of wack but I take liver pills and I don't drink or take drugs..... 10 mins ago I took 0.5 of arimedex so hopefully I feel better. You think that's enough ? And also what is the duration of which I should take it? I definitely think I had high estrogen tho I've been bitchy and roid ragy a little bit***128533; ........a little anxious an depressed too all signs of high estro ...... I even was put up against the wAll by the cops yesterday because of a road rage incident but everything was cool..... Anyways thanks guys for all your help. I think I feel better now after I took that arimedex how fast does it work?

Tren is not bad atleast not for.me anyways, I don't suffer the bad sides others due, but it's hard on your body that's forsure and it runs u down quite abit, trust me as I know tren will let u know when it's time to quit and take a break lol, your body just fights back and says enough is enough!
Some people take tren way to far in saying it's an evil compound and most people are even scared to run it with all the stuff soaked in there head before they even give it a go, maybe I am just one of the lucky ones I dunno but I personally believe it's the best compound out there by far! As people say its a compound to cut, but it just depends on your goals and obviously your diet if u wabt to bulk, cut, or maintain, works great for all 3
Bloodwork is a must, especially if u are feeling off, as for.me 5 months on tren as stated and was feeling very tired, sleeping shitty, all in all at the end.of the.blast I was glad it was over to take a break from.the shit lol, got bloods done a few weeks ago as I live in canada so it doesn't cost me shit, and low and beyold some stuff like.my liver emzimes were.up, and a couple.other things as well
Point being without bloods anybody can give u advice but bloods tells the whole.story what's really going on inside of u
 
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Here is my recent bloods done
My doc has an issue checking off estrogen for some.reason so I don't get that checked which sucks but not.going to.push him for that when in get everything else.checked haha
Bloods were taking a few weeks ago a month and sum being off tren and on my cruise dose 200mg/week
 
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First and foremost we need to establish something here, when there is an outside source "exogenous", administration of testosterone it does not necessarily convert per your notion... testosterone has three courses of action " its main course of action being testosterone" , converting to DHT, or converting to estrogen... so to speculate with the assumption that this is entirely estrogen-related hands down no questions asked is the most narrow minded approach in this entire thread...

Without seeing a full female panel blood work no one should be telling him what he needs to do, in lieu suggestions would be appropriate for counter measures.... if you read my prior posts I'm doing process of elimination, instead of diagnosing in which none of us ability to do considering the circumstances and the information that is provided...

Let's not go by textbook, instead let's look at real life experiences outside of our very own..

In regards to sensitivity in the nipples its a keen indicator in the vast majority of individuals with high estrogen levels as well as water retention.. we do not even know if he possesses the enzymes that are converting his test into estro, now should he use anti as a precaution? It's always wise to have them on hand.. keep in mind he is going to have elevated estrogen this is due to the administration of testosterone, this is known as the system balance and checks, when one level goes up so will the other, this is not entirely bad and it's often blown out of proportion and targeted for all the wrong reasons.. the static system likes o have a fine balance within the internal network..shall I say the terminology?

To the OP... You mentioned that you are on 4ius EOD..what time is your injection? Try lowering your HGH to 2ius ED and take at night ( due to the 24 hour loop and its like 3 to 4 hours after administration), it may make you tired throughout the day if you take AM injections...I question if this is due to your thyroid..EVERYTHING is pointing that way IMO because you been on high for this long above therapeutic dosages... growth hormone can directly af
fect t3/t4 levels over time... the body will lower t4 levels over time due to the conversion into t3, these levels will run low overtime if there is not aexogenous source...I would suggest taking t4 and your body will process and convert what it needs... this it's basically protocol when on long durations of growth hormone, especially when someone is taking well above therapeutic dosages...

Get some blood work done as soon as you can and keep us posted

If we don't know if he possesses the aromatase enzyme, then how do we know that he will have elevated e2 levels due to the administration of Testosterone?

The body does balance itself out, or at least tries to, I don't disagree with that. But a rise in e2 due to increased levels of Testosterone in an attempt at balancing is due to the conversion via the aromatase enzyme.

Slightly increased or even slightly above optimal levels of estradiol is not a bad thing. But levels that are too high most certainly are and this will eventually happen if an AI is not used to stop this 'balancing out' process. As I mentioned previously, many side effects are associated with this. Lethargy, depression, anxiety, enlarged prostate, high blood pressure, increased risk of stoke and/or cardiovascular issues. Gyno, and water retention as well, of course. But, those to things alone aren't a good enough hand for someone to place a bet on.

So knowing the body want to balance itself out, and that when a person has elevated Testosterone some will convert to estrogen indefinitely because of that, why would you not think that using an AI from the start of a cycle is a good idea? Isnt being proactive about ones health much wiser than being reactive? Especially when dealing with a hormone that can potentially cause so many unwanted health risks?
 
Your approach has potential how wherever you are misunderstanding how the endocrine system works, the body will not convert estrogen to make up the balance to find hemostasis, your body will produce...

By theory that sounds reasonable but that is not the case...

You are advocating about some symptoms that I suggested are merely not enough to place a bet on, now you're contradicting yourself because that's exactly the same thing you were doing by suggesting he has elevated estrogen levels you're placing a bet on something you are entirely uncertain of without definitive facts...

I'm not arguing so please do not assumes that... I'm emphasizing on some principles, and other factors rather than attempting to calculate , and diagnose...

If you are steadfast and believe that elevated estrogen is the cause and effect, but I'm quite confident that a demitasse what figure had like a sombrero.... the internal networks within the endocrine and system of checks is rather vest under a huge spectrum!

BLOODS.... NUFF SAID!
 
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