First Cycle how many calories?

[rereroids]

I am currently on a TRT Dosage of 100mg test e every 5 days wich puts me on the high 700s on the 5th day, which I think is pretty good but my doctor says it is a bit to high, but here is the deal.
I want to run a 500mg test e cycle doing 2x 250mg of test e only.
My training has been consistent along with my diet but I never got results because I had very low t, the reason why I found out I had very low t was that, that I was not making gains even though I had my diet and training on point. But now that I want to run my first cycle I have a couple of questions.
How many calories above my TDEE should I be eating, I have heard different opinions saying anywhere between 500 to 1000 or 10% to 20% surplus depending on how close you are to your genetic potential, or what kind of cycle you are running, I am nowhere close to is, I have probably only gained 10 pounds in my 1 1/2 years of training, so what do you guys recommend.
Also, as for PCT I will just go back to my normal dosage which is 100 mg every 5 days, should I bump it up a little bit or make it the same.
Stats
162.5 pounds 14% bf
5'8
The routine I am going to use is Layne Nortons PHAT, also should I change my routine to a higher rep one routine, I know that when on gear recovery is amazing so the only thing I would change is try to add more volume and intensity through sets, reps, drop or rest pause, and working to failure wouldnt be a problem.

Also, I see people gaining anywhere between 15-25 pounds and keeping 15-20 pounds after their first cycle, and they were already close to their genetic limit, which I am not, so does that mean they were eating like 1000 cals above TDEE?

 

[Roush]

I started trt a few years back .. I bumped up my trt dose and did my first cycle, if I remember correctly I was about 600 calories over maintenance,, I put on 33lbs and maintained 12% bf,, not only did I keep the gains, I kept gaining.. Being on trt allows you to better keep gains then someone that has to do a pct .

Tell your doc that 700 is not too high,, tell him why is being in the just "normal" range ok when you can be "optimal"--- docs are always caught up on making sick people normal, or just "stopping the bleeding"-- fuk that we need docs that wanna help normal to become optimal

 

[rereroids]

Thank you so much man I appreciate I had so many doubts because I am going to start the cycle next monday, also what do you think about the routine, should I change it to a typical bro split high volume? I know TRT gives more gains because testosterone is always steady as along as the dose is steady and if your cutting you dont loose the muscle mass people loose when they cut because they lower their natural T Levels with low calorie and prolonged deficit, so that is a plus too. Also I dont know why the endo wants to change my dose he wants to see if he can keep me feeling good with something lower, and I am like WTF does it matter if I am feeling fine with this one and I have good levels. even though they are a bit higher.

 

[Roush]

High volume, higher rep, more time under tension training will give you faster more visible results. Sacroplasmic hypertrophy is going to volumize your muscles and increase cell size, water, blood, nutrients, etc. . Will be driven into the muscle. This yields better results for body building purposes then does myofirillar hypertrophy which tears down muscle and rebuilds new muscle for strength gains.

If your diet is spot on, you can cut bf % and maintain or even make gains, if your on a cycle (impossible to do that naturally).

If your doc drops the dosage, just tell him the next visit you feel tired lethargic and low libido,, that the 700+ range is better

 

[carverelli]

I hear ya bro. My levels were 821 ng/dl and my doc thought that was "way too high". Although l, I agree supraphysilogical levels aren't optimal for cardiovascular health, levels around 1k isn't life threatening- even considering my artificial heart valve and mild chf.

My bp is managed very well since Ive dropped my test levels to trt dosage.

Currently on 125mg test c e5d and I feel pretty damned good. Weight is the same as when my test levels were 4k. Still dropping bf and maintaining muscle mass. Another month and I'll do bloods to confirm everything is under control and looks good.

 

[PrinceDianabol]

How many calories?

ALL of them

 

[SoCalSwole]

I think you also need to consider the quality of the calories. Eating a clean 3000 cals is hard work. Anyone who has done it knows what I am talking about. So make sure you accurately count the macros and manage the ratio. Lower fat and moderate carbs works well for me. I cycle back and forth between low carb high fat and low fat moderate carbs. Like Roush said if your diet is on point you will be able to make gains while losing BF while on gear. Something that is impossible naturally.

If I were you I would find the correct maintenance cals and dial that in for a couple weeks. perfecting the macros. Then add 500 cals see how that goes for week. No gains? then add 500 more. if your gaining more than 1 pound a week then dial it back to 250. Or add the equivalent of activity to burn more cals. If your gaining more than 1 pound a week, then its too fast and most likely a fair amount of fat. The first few weeks you might gain more than that then when the test kicks in that week and the one after will be more than 1 pound, but after it all settles in if your still gaining faster than 1 pound a week dial cals back.

A proper recomp is very difficult to pull off for a beginner or even intermediate. Took me a few times to get it right. I am not trying to throw a wrench in the works but honestly I would work on bringing the BF down lower while on your TRT. You won't lose any muscle if your diet is on point then you can blast away and not get too caught up in gaining too fast. You still want to always be at or under 14%

But this way you will look great for the summer and then blast away in the fall. Losing or even maintaining BF while on a cycle is challenging. So why not just split it up and do one at a time. Just my .02 cents. Even though you really didn't ask

 

[rereroids]

Thank you for the info I appreciate it, actually loosing bf while on gear and gaining muscle would be eating maintenance calories and doing something like carb backloading or carb cycling or Intermittent fasting leangains right, I have tried them all and I know those things even work even for some nattys but it takes a really long time and it doesnt even work that well. I guess that is the magic of gear, it makes things more possible as long as you are consistent and know how to train and eat.

 

[wiggywild]

I started out at 3500 or 500 above maintenance all clean food 40p 40c 20f. Next I weighed myself and if I did not put on two pounds that week I would up the calories 250-300. I ended up around 4750. Again they were all clean and I did not put on a lot of fat. Gained 24 kept 14-16.

 

[Teutonic]

Roush---fuck me mate that was good. Damn it son---I was back in Grad school for a sec....

 

[Hypnotix]

I think you also need to consider the quality of the calories. Eating a clean 3000 cals is hard work. Anyone who has done it knows what I am talking about.

Try it with 4000.. or even 4500, 5000.. It gets worse before it gets better! lol

Hmm, my first 2-3 weeks of cycle was during my works "shut down" period.. over Christmas, and New Years. I ate literally anything and everything I could.. 3J got message after message of me explaining how guilty I felt! BUT, I put on 10 lbs over those 2 weeks off work.. I came back and people were like... dude, you're beefy as fuck! Needless to say.. I took that 10lbs of seemingly meaningless weight of glycogen and water, and kept it. Over the next 3-4 weeks I saw a couple pounds more, but all that "excess" turned into rock solid mass.. It was weird to say the least cause a week later and I'm gaining 1/4lb a week for 3 weeks and making basically natural level progress.. It turned out to be a drug interaction.. I went Hyper and was burning calories like crazy, but I was still eating enough to gain a little.. just enough that it was leaning me out and packing on lbs slowly.

A little something to consider. Check for interactions on Drugs.com

I'm surprised no ones told you to just wait it out until you KNOW where your calories need to be to gain by the way. In my opinion... since you'll be on TRT you won't need to worry about low T anymore. Now you have a "slightly better than natural" performing body! Since you're 162, I'd say to play around with your food over anything! What you think is "on point" is probably not ideal for what you're after. If I were you, and you don't have to listen to me but I'm sure there's others out there that will agree somewhere... Adjust your diet until you're gaining, and see how far that 700 blood level will take you. My guess is at least 180lbs at your BF, but potentially 190lbs! If you started your blast at 190lbs.. you could be 210-220lbs by the end of it.. and your TRT will help you maintain it.

This is just my opinion. Take it how you will, but you're new to TRT and you've been training and dieting with low levels for so long.. you have no idea what training and eating with normal levels will do for you yet.

Either way, remember the golden rule and you'll get where you want to go - Diet > Training > Rest > Drugs

 

[rereroids]

Thank you man i think I will eat 500 over maintenance and I kniw how much I need to maintain because I have a Bodymefia Fit and it tells me how many calories a day I burn so I will just add 500 and keep on adding 150 every week because of the extra needs the extra muscle mass I eill be building creates, and I dont think there is a need to wait, I think that most people are told to wait because they usually dont kniw how to train and diet, but my situation is abit different since I know how to do both of these and I am on TRT I dont even have to worry about PCT.

 

[SoCalSwole]

Try it with 4000.. or even 4500, 5000.. It gets worse before it gets better! lol

Hmm, my first 2-3 weeks of cycle was during my works "shut down" period.. over Christmas, and New Years. I ate literally anything and everything I could.. 3J got message after message of me explaining how guilty I felt! BUT, I put on 10 lbs over those 2 weeks off work.. I came back and people were like... dude, you're beefy as fuck! Needless to say.. I took that 10lbs of seemingly meaningless weight of glycogen and water, and kept it. Over the next 3-4 weeks I saw a couple pounds more, but all that "excess" turned into rock solid mass.. It was weird to say the least cause a week later and I'm gaining 1/4lb a week for 3 weeks and making basically natural level progress.. It turned out to be a drug interaction.. I went Hyper and was burning calories like crazy, but I was still eating enough to gain a little.. just enough that it was leaning me out and packing on lbs slowly.

A little something to consider. Check for interactions on Drugs.com

I'm surprised no ones told you to just wait it out until you KNOW where your calories need to be to gain by the way. In my opinion... since you'll be on TRT you won't need to worry about low T anymore. Now you have a "slightly better than natural" performing body! Since you're 162, I'd say to play around with your food over anything! What you think is "on point" is probably not ideal for what you're after. If I were you, and you don't have to listen to me but I'm sure there's others out there that will agree somewhere... Adjust your diet until you're gaining, and see how far that 700 blood level will take you. My guess is at least 180lbs at your BF, but potentially 190lbs! If you started your blast at 190lbs.. you could be 210-220lbs by the end of it.. and your TRT will help you maintain it.

This is just my opinion. Take it how you will, but you're new to TRT and you've been training and dieting with low levels for so long.. you have no idea what training and eating with normal levels will do for you yet.

Either way, remember the golden rule and you'll get where you want to go - Diet > Training > Rest > Drugs

Great post the more I read posts from 3J's students the more I want to be one of them.

 

[Hypnotix]

Thank you man i think I will eat 500 over maintenance and I kniw how much I need to maintain because I have a Bodymefia Fit and it tells me how many calories a day I burn so I will just add 500 and keep on adding 150 every week because of the extra needs the extra muscle mass I eill be building creates, and I dont think there is a need to wait, I think that most people are told to wait because they usually dont kniw how to train and diet, but my situation is abit different since I know how to do both of these and I am on TRT I dont even have to worry about PCT.

Most people are told to wait for a plethora of reasons actually.

Age
Experience - Nutrition, Training, AAS
Knowledge - Nutrition, Training, AAS, PCT, General

Not worrying about a PCT is a plus, but shouldn't be treated as a deciding factor in your decision to use steroids.

It says in your first post that you figured out you had low T because you had your training and diet on point but wasn't gaining any weight. Now you're on TRT and in the 700's.. but, you're still 162lbs. Why turn to a blast is all I'm saying? Why not see how things go for 3, 4, 6 months on your TRT dose before going and fucking it all up with a supraphysiological doses of Testosterone.

I'm only looking out for your best interest, honestly. And I know damn well I'm just a guy on the internet to you, so at the end of the day you're going to do whatever you want. But, if I was just put onto TRT, or have been on it and hadn't seen any growth comparably speaking (like to that of what you were seeing naturally), I would not turn to a blast! Your nutrition is likely the culprit behind your lack of gains, not your hormone levels. That I could almost guarantee is fact. If you can't gain at 700TT.. you think 2000TT will make it magic for you, when you're eating 2500 calories a day? Negative.

If you'd like to discuss what to eat, how much, and stuff.. I'd be happy to sit and talk OR direct you straight to 3J. But beyond that at this point I think I'm going to bow out on aiding you in any way when it comes to steroid use. My opinion has been laid out for you, and I've justified it to my best extent at this time.. Again, as in last post, take it how you will.. I'm only trying to help.

 

[rereroids]

I didnt say I didnt gain weight, I could gain weight, but it was mostly fat, I had a hard time with progressive overload even though everything was on point, while my friends were getting bigger and stronger while bulking I was only getting a little bit stronger and bigger, but mostly more fat and fel so fatigued, I know it is all about the calories, enough protein and enough volume to induce growth without doing too much you are not able to recover from, but thanks for the advice, I have actually made the best gains while on TRT vs the time where I had low T, but the fact of know that I dont have to worry about PCT and just blast and cruise is pretty tempting.

 

[Hypnotix]

My training has been consistent along with my diet but I never got results because I had very low t, the reason why I found out I had very low t was that, that I was not making gains even though I had my diet and training on point.

It is exactly what you said lol

I understand the temptation, but it's not worth doing when you have loads of potential being on TRT. You'll basically be wasting money and potentially harming yourself for gains you can make without blasting.

 

[3J]

Great post the more I read posts from 3J's students the more I want to be one of them.

my clients gain a decent amount of knowledge about how to properly eat once they sign up.. they gain that experience while working with me.. so its invaluable.. they can apply that knowledge for life..

the posts here are right.. its diet, training, then gear.. ALWAYS

 

[omgmike1]

Does anyone think:

Scene 1: 2.5 Hrs training-High Reps-All to Failure-6-7k Cals Clean a Day/8-10 Hours sleep/500mg Test E PW

Scene 2: 1.5 Hrs training-High Reps-All to failure-3-4k Cals Clean a day/8 Hours sleep/500mg Test E PW

Which one would provide more growth? Assuming there is only so much muscle damage u can do in 1 day before recovery, so the rest would just be cals burned and more required to hit a surplus, but would higher calories yield BETTER results DUE TO More nutritional value being pumped back in + increasing metabolism to burn at a very fast rate. ?

 

[cybrsage]

The key issue is - do you have the strength of will to do 2.5 hours in the gym AND eat 6-7k clean calories? I know I do not, but you might. That is one of the big factors so many people do not take into account - can you maintain the plan you have set?

 

[omgmike1]

The key issue is - do you have the strength of will to do 2.5 hours in the gym AND eat 6-7k clean calories? I know I do not, but you might. That is one of the big factors so many people do not take into account - can you maintain the plan you have set?

Thats what separates the average from the best Before my first AAS I trained 3 hours a day with 3.5-5k cals a day clean-6 days a week year round. Did very good always grew every month