Getting stronger but not bigger??

MN87

New member
I don't understand the one concept being tossed around with certain steroids like Anavar (var) , Winstrol (winny), etc, that says these steroids may not give you a lot of size, but they'll make you stronger. Anavar (var) in particular.

I know size =/= strength and that the relationship between the two is not linear, but generally speaking, if you get stronger you will put on at least SOME size to go along with the strength. I'm aware of the differences between myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy as well... but they are both form of HYPERTROPHY nonetheless. Are we saying, then, that certain steroids promote one type of hypertrophy over the other (myofibrillar in the case of Anavar (var) )? Whats the deal!
 
The type of workouts and ur diet can make u gain size and not strength. If u do like 5x5 routine u r gonna get strong as hell. But if u lower the weight and just go for really good pumps u will blow up. That's why bodybuilders r not always the strongest dudes. They train for size not strength. There is always exceptions like Ronnie.
 
Actually I disagree completely. Heavy weight low rep has proven time and time again to be a mass building form of training. High reps, not so much.

Winny is used pre comp to remove water from your body and give a dry appearance, it's not really going to add much size.
Anavar (var) is great for strength, won't aromatize, easier on liver, bad on lipids. You can add mass from Anavar (var) but they are lean mass gains.

Many times with things like tren ace or Anavar (var) , your body is losing fat but gaining muscle so you might not see much change on the scale, which is really not very important, but you will see your body change pretty rapidly and you will look bigger and better because you are lower in bf but also maintaining and adding muscle.

If you are not growing or gaining like you want to, its your diet or your training. If you want to add size, increase calories and protien. You have to provide nutrients to grow, so no matter what, more food = more size.

Heavy low rep training is great for adding mass, but also when cutting. It builds muscle with proper nutrition, and builds strength. Doing high reps may give you a good pump and cardio workout but how are you really going to gain any size? 10-20 reps is pointless to me. 6 and under is where it's at.

For guys who already have the size they want, more reps is fine to maintain and take some stress off their joints. Bodybuilders have bodybuilding diets, powerlifters have powerlifting diets. Most PL aren't looking for a six pack, they simply want strength, so carbs, fats, protiens are all good for that. BB who step on stage, or are in a magazine most often don't look anything like that the rest of the year, most look more like pl's.

Times have changed and with the addition of lots of good horrors and gh, along with genetics, more and more of the top guys stay pretty close to contest ready most of the year. They may not be single digit bf all the time but it will be close like 9-11%. It benefits them to be ready for guest posing, sponsors, magazines, etc to be constantly pulling in the cash. No one wants to see a top BB looking fat but in reality, when it's time to do some serious bulking, some do have to add bf as well to gain the size they want and need to progress. That doesn't mean they have to get sloppy, but for many people it's very difficult to get to or stay in the single digit bf.

And they aren't doing this by doing a hundred reps an exercise. Everyone is slightly different, but look at yourself or the people in your gym. You will see the guys who train 5 days a week year after year and always look the same. I bet anything they are doing some higher rep training.

In all reality, you could only do 3 lifts, and gain size but most people throw in a few extras. Deadlifts, squats, and flat bench will work every muscle you have. You could skip arms, abs, and still grow. It's ok to do a little abs and to hit a few sets with arms but there is no real need for dedicating full days to them. You work your bi's doing other exercises and tri's on days like chest day.

5x5 or something similar will not only add strength but mass. The difference is, if you want to grow you need to eat to grow. If you want to cut and lean out, you adjust your diet to cut which usually means adding some gear to maintain muscle and going in a calorie deficit to drop bf.

Test, deca,tren are all that's really needed for anything you want to accomplish. Orals can be a quick way to big gains but hard to hold for most because they are adding to much water.

Just find what works for you.
 
Lifting thing ie strength is two parts, your muscle mechanics (size and density) and your central nervous system (what fires the muscle) I read an article where the tracked the electrical stimulus by the nervous system on a muscle of a highly trained Olympic power lifter, and they saw the electrical signal fired the muscle in an almost circular pattern. Pretty wild
 
Actually I disagree completely. Heavy weight low rep has proven time and time again to be a mass building form of training. High reps, not so much.

Winny is used pre comp to remove water from your body and give a dry appearance, it's not really going to add much size.
Anavar (var) is great for strength, won't aromatize, easier on liver, bad on lipids. You can add mass from Anavar (var) but they are lean mass gains.

Many times with things like tren ace or Anavar (var) , your body is losing fat but gaining muscle so you might not see much change on the scale, which is really not very important, but you will see your body change pretty rapidly and you will look bigger and better because you are lower in bf but also maintaining and adding muscle.

If you are not growing or gaining like you want to, its your diet or your training. If you want to add size, increase calories and protien. You have to provide nutrients to grow, so no matter what, more food = more size.

Heavy low rep training is great for adding mass, but also when cutting. It builds muscle with proper nutrition, and builds strength. Doing high reps may give you a good pump and cardio workout but how are you really going to gain any size? 10-20 reps is pointless to me. 6 and under is where it's at.

For guys who already have the size they want, more reps is fine to maintain and take some stress off their joints. Bodybuilders have bodybuilding diets, powerlifters have powerlifting diets. Most PL aren't looking for a six pack, they simply want strength, so carbs, fats, protiens are all good for that. BB who step on stage, or are in a magazine most often don't look anything like that the rest of the year, most look more like pl's.

Times have changed and with the addition of lots of good horrors and gh, along with genetics, more and more of the top guys stay pretty close to contest ready most of the year. They may not be single digit bf all the time but it will be close like 9-11%. It benefits them to be ready for guest posing, sponsors, magazines, etc to be constantly pulling in the cash. No one wants to see a top BB looking fat but in reality, when it's time to do some serious bulking, some do have to add bf as well to gain the size they want and need to progress. That doesn't mean they have to get sloppy, but for many people it's very difficult to get to or stay in the single digit bf.

And they aren't doing this by doing a hundred reps an exercise. Everyone is slightly different, but look at yourself or the people in your gym. You will see the guys who train 5 days a week year after year and always look the same. I bet anything they are doing some higher rep training.

In all reality, you could only do 3 lifts, and gain size but most people throw in a few extras. Deadlifts, squats, and flat bench will work every muscle you have. You could skip arms, abs, and still grow. It's ok to do a little abs and to hit a few sets with arms but there is no real need for dedicating full days to them. You work your bi's doing other exercises and tri's on days like chest day.

5x5 or something similar will not only add strength but mass. The difference is, if you want to grow you need to eat to grow. If you want to cut and lean out, you adjust your diet to cut which usually means adding some gear to maintain muscle and going in a calorie deficit to drop bf.

Test, deca,tren are all that's really needed for anything you want to accomplish. Orals can be a quick way to big gains but hard to hold for most because they are adding to much water.

Just find what works for you.

^^^ well said, lots of good info

try working out every other day. you body needs rest and time to recuperate. increase your calories and work out eod, you will grow.
 
Thanks for the responses guys, but let me rephrase my question.

Diet aside, certain steroids (var, Winstrol (winny), halo, among others) are known moreso for promoting strength gains than they are mass gains. Hell, seems like nobody EVER gains size on halo but they always get insanely strong.

My question is, for these steroids, what is the mechanism by which this is working? Is it myofibrillar hypertrophy at work, or moreso CNS adaptation? ..or a combo of both?
 
Many times with things like tren ace or var, your body is losing fat but gaining muscle so you might not see much change on the scale, which is really not very important, but you will see your body change pretty rapidly and you will look bigger and better because you are lower in bf but also maintaining and adding muscle.
What kinda calories are necessary for a recomp like that? Maintenance? Below maintenance?

Or do they just exert those effects regardless.
 
Too much to say on this. so ALL i will say is keep on studyin..


ANABOLIC

ANDROGENIC

the last one fills muscles with water more than the first.
maybe thats whats you have confused with size from some steroids.
 
The type of workouts and ur diet can make u gain size and not strength. If u do like 5x5 routine u r gonna get strong as hell. But if u lower the weight and just go for really good pumps u will blow up. That's why bodybuilders r not always the strongest dudes. They train for size not strength. There is always exceptions like Ronnie.

not true your confused with endurance.
SHEER POWER Most BBers have that (powerlifters cerry more fat and in general train to lift and drop and can do so very well)

adaption and endurance is another story. your not gonna see a bber doing too well at a half mile run .. that I can agree.
your boddy will adjust to try to NOT get size but to get more endurance if you train that way.
 
Thanks for these posts.... It's always great to remember who you are (body type) and what your goals are. I'm sometimes frustrated that I can't seem to gain a lot of weight. I eat btwn 4-5000 cals a day. But people always comment that I'm getting huge and ripped. The truth is my body weight has not changed all that much. But strangers have stopped to tell me I have an awesome body. Trust me that never happened before Tren and high intensity training... Concentrating on the big three: dead/squat/press.
 
I feel like I'm not doing a very good job asking my question lol

Ok. Roids like Halo. Aren't known for putting on a lot of size, but will pack on strength. Is this because
a) improvements in CNS efficiency
b) they promote myofibrillar hypertrophy (muscle 'density') as opposed to sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (muscle size) <--- this is what I'm REALLY curious about, but seems like it'd be more training dependent than anything else
c) lack of water retention makes gains look smaller than they actually are
 
I think you are spot on with b) training type is what dictates that the most.
C) Some compounds are known for there water retention for example D-Bol

For part A that is a tough one, since I know higher test levels make me more aggressive in the gym. Some of that is psychological the placebo effect of knowing I am on gear, and some of that is the Test. I am just not sure if that equates to a CNS efficiency
 
All good points. But most bodybuilders r in the 8-12 range. U rarely see a low Rep Max out type of routine from any bodybuilders. I wasn't meaning like 15 to 20 reps as that would just be cardio.Lol. that's why there is Alot of power lifters that r like 160-180 Pindar that out lift the bigger guys because they train for strength with low reps. Around three to five.
 
Juice or no juice FOOD make you weigh more/ bigger.

Food takes the backseat to the miracle, I want it now, easy way guy.

They'll learn....or not.
 
+1 CFM.......i would guess 90% of the time either growing muscle or losing fat is directly related to your FOOD intake. Especially once your body has reached a set point that it likes. I will not disagree that HEAVY compound movements will add MASS. But they will do nothing if your diet isn't in check. It just seems that more times than not people DO NOT eat enough, or enough of the right things, and do not grow......IMHO
 
Strength is a function of cross-sectional muscle area and many other things. Strength and size often increase together, but this is not necessarily true for all cases. Strength is also somewhat misleading so its hard to quantify exactly. Sometimes a good mood makes you feel stronger. Or training for fast-twitch vs. slow. Size is something that is very real and tangible, and no matter how you measure it, its the same. Strength can be measured (in multiple ways) but is not a real object and subject to many variables. You also gotta remember placebo effect just from taking one pill. I guess I'm just trying to say its hard to compare strength and size. You know, like apples and oranges.

If I had to guess whether a,b or c, I would guess some combination of the three. Like most things in life, answers are not as black and white as we wish they were.
 
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