GHRH + GHRP = no need for IGF products?

[Toshiro]

Now this may be a silly idea or question but ... I was thinking about the mechanics of how things flow. Please correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is as follows:

Growth hormone secretions get metabolized in the liver. This in turn is where IGF is created based on how much GH is coming in. So if one uses a GHRH combined with a GHRP thereby giving an elevated GH release.

Wouldn't that higher GH release = higher IGF levels by nature of the GHRH&GHRP combination used? As a result, would this mean using IGF products would simply be "extra" that would either not be used or cause the rest of the metabolic pathways to not function as optimally?

I did some searching and couldn't find much of an answer to this concept so I thought I'd post it. Either I suck at searching or no one has really talked about it. LOL

Let me know what you guys think...

Take care,
Toshiro

 

[MeatHead96]

Not necessarily. GHRH and GHRP pep combo's tend to raise Growth Hormone levels significantly but not igf-1 much, as opposed to real GH which should raise both significantly.

 

[Toshiro]

Good to know! I would not have guessed that. So is it safe to say any IGF peptide will work synergistically with a GHRH/GHRP combination? Is it because what you can "produce" via peptides is not as much GH compared to taking strait up GH?

 

[AdonisDreams]

Even real GH does not elevate IGF to the levels that exogenous IGF injection raises it.

I've read that on average a male secretes around 2mcg of IGF a day (high end).

With GH, maybe that 2mcg can get up to 25mcg (12 times the amount).

With IGF, the amount can be limitless. The low-range dosages are around 40mcg which is nearing 2x the amount of igf that even a high level of GH could stimulate.

These are all estimations, but I hope the point was made.

Just as GH secretions from GHRH and GHRP's can not approach high levels of exogenous GH, IGF secretions from GH can not approach high levels of exogenous IGF-1.

Cheers.

 

[MeatHead96]

Yes it is safe to research with igf-1 products along side the ghrh/ghrp combo. This is a good approach.

 

[Toshiro]

Even real GH does not elevate IGF to the levels that exogenous IGF injection raises it.

I've read that on average a male secretes around 2mcg of IGF a day (high end).

With GH, maybe that 2mcg can get up to 25mcg (12 times the amount).

With IGF, the amount can be limitless. The low-range dosages are around 40mcg which is nearing 2x the amount of igf that even a high level of GH could stimulate.

These are all estimations, but I hope the point was made.

Just as GH secretions from GHRH and GHRP's can not approach high levels of exogenous GH, IGF secretions from GH can not approach high levels of exogenous IGF-1.

Cheers.

Very interesting and if that can get up to 25mcg rough lets say as in your example then I wonder if that is where diabetic / sugar concerns come into play. (i.e. high levels of GH stimulates way beyond normal amounts of IGF leading to sugar sensitivity).

 

[Toshiro]

Yes it is safe to research with igf-1 products along side the ghrh/ghrp combo. This is a good approach.

Thanks man, I always wondered about the safety of this. Can it ever lead to sugar issues using an IGF-1 product? And since most of IFG-1 receptors are in the gut can this create the "Palumboism" type of turtle shell gut?

Or is that only when using strait up slin? I always assumed slin only but wanted to see what you guys thought. (some buddies use slin and have the dreaded gut) LOL

 

[gymrat827]

Igf man. Allday. Ur cutting urself short by not using it.

DES is my favorite

 

[AdonisDreams]

Toshiro, I think that you're referring to hypoglycemia.. That can be triggered by both Insulin and IGF (to a lesser degree).

I do not personally think you will experience any problems with insulin sensitivity due to IGF.

The problem comes into play when you are using high levels of 'slin, which is secreted by the pancreas. When you damage that sensitivity and secretion, that is where diabetic issues come into question IMO.

Good luck mate, let us know how all your cycles go.

 

[Tbone1968]

Sorry go butt in , Interesting that you prefer Des over lr3 . I should read up more on Des i thought lr3 was the way to go.

Peace

 

[Toshiro]

Igf man. Allday. Ur cutting urself short by not using it.

DES is my favorite

Thanks man! Was thinking to stack it with a GHRP/GHRH combo but wanted to make sure it didn't mess up blood sugars or get a "slin" gut type of thing. Anyone got a distended gut from IFG LR3 or DES?

 

[Toshiro]

Toshiro, I think that you're referring to hypoglycemia.. That can be triggered by both Insulin and IGF (to a lesser degree).

I do not personally think you will experience any problems with insulin sensitivity due to IGF.

The problem comes into play when you are using high levels of 'slin, which is secreted by the pancreas. When you damage that sensitivity and secretion, that is where diabetic issues come into question IMO.

Good luck mate, let us know how all your cycles go.

Yes I was thinking of hypoglycemia and the stomach distention that seems to happen with slin.

So far cycles of CJC1295 no DAC and Ipam have been working good. Well I don't come off it so not really a cycle ... more like always on. ha ha ha

 

[gymrat827]

Get a few peg mgf and igf des.

Peg mgf on off days. Des post WO in trained muscles.

 

[Toshiro]

Get a few peg mgf and igf des.

Peg mgf on off days. Des post WO in trained muscles.

Do you like DES just because it is stronger and short acting? I am assuming this since it is after work outs. I know IGF-1 LR3 is a longer acting version. Like ethanate vs prop. Was thinking to use the LR3 once a day every day first thing in the AM when my rat wakes up.

 

[Toshiro]

bump

 

[gymrat827]

Lots of lr3 is fake. Des is much more reliable.

Unless u get LR3 from a gh source I'd pass on it. If lr3 tested on igf tests and showed better gains I'd use it but it doesn't.

Hitting the peg mgf at the proper times is crucial. That's where the new stem sites will come from, getting those to develop into new cells is really the goal here.

 

[gymrat827]

If u use DES a few times a day ul get a similar effect to lr3. And DES is way way more potent. So, again, timing is key, using the DES at the proper times will create the proper environment for solid growth.

 

[Toshiro]

Thanks for the info gymrat