Growth Horomone

[LAWNSAVER]

I think you took what I was saying to literal. I was giving my opinion on how GH effects me. I have only used 2ius and I have never seen dramatic muscle growth, but the fat loss was amazing. When I added slin...OMG it made such a difference at the low dose I was taking.

GY...you corrected me on a quote from Dave Polumbo, but since it was lets pick on Lawnsaver moment, I'll let that one slide. But in the future, make sure you read the whole thing...I dont like getting flamed at all, but especially when it was a freaking quote from someone else.

SG...you are my girl too, but I have read multiple article stating that Gh supplementation can cause insulin resistance, thus the use of slin ( highly anabolic), helps tremendously with more dramatic muscle gains.

Obviously gh causes muscle growth...but I was leading to the fact that the real size increase with GH and test without slin starts at about 6+ ius a day. Anything lower, unless you consume huge amounts of cals with yield mostly dramatic fat loss, and amazing muscle preserving properties. These muscle preseving properties will allow for the great increase in LBM.

Obviously the anabolic effect is there at a lower dose and sure you can and will gain LBM with low doses of GH without slin, but I guess I was just generalizing a little to much.

I was just making a general point that if you want to see "size" increase, slin is a major factor, as well as large amounts of food at low doses of GH. When you surpass 6+ius of GH you can achieve the "size" factor easier without the use of slin.

I am in no shape or form an expert on GH, but I do know how it effects me and many others who have used it. I might not be the most scientific person, but I do have a clue.

And GY...when did I say the use of insulin is the only way to gain permenant muscle growth on GH?? I think I said you wont grow without slin when on a low dose of gh. I wasnt talking about LBM, I'm talking weight gain!

Sorry to ramble, but had to get some things straight!

 

[GEORGE YOUNG]

GY...you corrected me on a quote from Dave Polumbo, but since it was lets pick on Lawnsaver moment, I'll let that one slide. But in the future, make sure you read the whole thing...I dont like getting flamed at all, but especially when it was a freaking quote from someone else.

And GY...when did I say the use of insulin is the only way to gain permenant muscle growth on GH?? I think I said you wont grow without slin when on a low dose of gh. I wasnt talking about LBM, I'm talking weight gain!

LOL... I WASN'T PICKING ON YA, I ACTUALLY NEVER MENTIONED YOUR NAME... I APOLOGIZE IF YOU THOUGHT I WAS FLAMING YOU, BUT NEXT TIME READ MY WHOLE THREAD BEFORE YOU MAKE THE ACCUSATION THAT ITS ABOUT YOU.. IF I WAS CALLING YOU OUT, TRUST ME, YOU'D KNOW IT....

WHEN DID I SAY 'YOU' SAID INSULIN WAS THE ONLY WAY TO GAIN PERMANENT GROWTH???? OH THAT'S RIGHT... I DIDN'T... ACTUALLY I DON'T EVEN RECALL MENTIONING YOUR NAME OR DIRECTING ANYTHING TOWARDS YOU IN ANY OF MY POSTS... LOTS OF PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES AND TAKE THINGS THE WRONG WAY (YOURE POST IS PRIME EXAMPLE).. I WANTED TO CORRECT ANYBODY'S MISCONCEPTION THAT "INSULIN IS THE ONLY WAY FOR PERMANENT MUSCLE GROWTH" BEFORE ANY NEWBIES THINK "HEY, LET ME ADD 30IU'S OF SLIN DAILY TO MY CYCLE"....

AS FAR AS GROWING ON A LOW DOSE OF HGH... WELL, IT'S EASILY DONE WITHOUT THE USE OF INSULIN... I CAN DO 2IU'S A DAY OF HGH FOR A PERIOD OF 3 MONTHS AND PUT ON QUITE A FEW POUNDS OF OVERALL BODY MASS, NOT JUST LBM...ACTUALLY, FROM NOVEMBER TO NOW, I'VE BEEN ON 4.5IU'S OF HGH (WHICH SOME MAY THINK IS A LOW DOSE, BUT IT'S ABOUT AVERAGE) AND PUT ON ABOUT 17 POUNDS OF OVERALL WEIGHT... I ACTUALLY DIDN'T START TO INCORPAORATE THE INSULIN UNTIL THE BEGINNING OF FEBUARY....

GY....

 

[LAWNSAVER]

LOL... I WASN'T PICKING ON YA, I ACTUALLY NEVER MENTIONED YOUR NAME... I APOLOGIZE IF YOU THOUGHT I WAS FLAMING YOU, BUT NEXT TIME READ MY WHOLE THREAD BEFORE YOU MAKE THE ACCUSATION THAT ITS ABOUT YOU.. IF I WAS CALLING YOU OUT, TRUST ME, YOU'D KNOW IT....

WHEN DID I SAY 'YOU' SAID INSULIN WAS THE ONLY WAY TO GAIN PERMANENT GROWTH???? OH THAT'S RIGHT... I DIDN'T... ACTUALLY I DON'T EVEN RECALL MENTIONING YOUR NAME OR DIRECTING ANYTHING TOWARDS YOU IN ANY OF MY POSTS... LOTS OF PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES AND TAKE THINGS THE WRONG WAY (YOURE POST IS PRIME EXAMPLE).. I WANTED TO CORRECT ANYBODY'S MISCONCEPTION THAT "INSULIN IS THE ONLY WAY FOR PERMANENT MUSCLE GROWTH" BEFORE ANY NEWBIES THINK "HEY, LET ME ADD 30IU'S OF SLIN DAILY TO MY CYCLE"....

AS FAR AS GROWING ON A LOW DOSE OF HGH... WELL, IT'S EASILY DONE WITHOUT THE USE OF INSULIN... I CAN DO 2IU'S A DAY OF HGH FOR A PERIOD OF 3 MONTHS AND PUT ON QUITE A FEW POUNDS OF OVERALL BODY MASS, NOT JUST LBM...ACTUALLY, FROM NOVEMBER TO NOW, I'VE BEEN ON 4.5IU'S OF HGH (WHICH SOME MAY THINK IS A LOW DOSE, BUT IT'S ABOUT AVERAGE) AND PUT ON ABOUT 17 POUNDS OF OVERALL WEIGHT... I ACTUALLY DIDN'T START TO INCORPAORATE THE INSULIN UNTIL THE BEGINNING OF FEBUARY....

GY....

You did single me out...look above, you quoted me! And then since you quoted SuperG, which was correcting me and then added to it, you were then singling me out again.

I dont think I have ever had a beef with anyone, hence the reason of SG sweet tone of voice!

Also, you are a huge exception to the rule, a genetic freak, to be able to put on 17lbs of weight with just 4.5ius of GH. Please lets take a poll and see what percentage of people have had similar or even remotely close results to those. You are a big boy!! I find it very hard to believe it was just the GH that did that. You must have been consuming 5-7000 cals ED. There arent to many guys here that can put that kind of food down.

Obviously you are intelligent...Obviously you have a great deal of experience, but to sit here and tell me that even 20% of the people out there can do what you claim to have done...I think you have truely lost your mind!

 

[Juice Authority]

I've been taking 4-6IU's a day of GH 5 days on 2 days off and haven't gained a single pound since I started 3 months ago. That wasn't my goal though. I've gone down in BF considerably. Now I've started my bulking cycle with includes GH.

 

[LAWNSAVER]

I've been taking 4-6IU's a day of GH 5 days on 2 days off and haven't gained a single pound since I started 3 months ago. That wasn't my goal though. I've gone down in BF considerably. Now I've started my bulking cycle with includes GH.

Were you taking any gear?? What was your diet like??

Now your results are more on the "norm" These are results I usually see from most.

I guess we just dont know how to take it right!

 

[GEORGE YOUNG]

You did single me out...look above, you quoted me! And then since you quoted SuperG, which was correcting me and then added to it, you were then singling me out again.

I dont think I have ever had a beef with anyone, hence the reason of SG sweet tone of voice!

Also, you are a huge exception to the rule, a genetic freak, to be able to put on 17lbs of weight with just 4.5ius of GH. Please lets take a poll and see what percentage of people have had similar or even remotely close results to those. You are a big boy!! I find it very hard to believe it was just the GH that did that. You must have been consuming 5-7000 cals ED. There arent to many guys here that can put that kind of food down.

Obviously you are intelligent...Obviously you have a great deal of experience, but to sit here and tell me that even 20% of the people out there can do what you claim to have done...I think you have truely lost your mind!

WELL, I CAN GO INTO THAT POST, BUT IT WOULD BE EXTREMELY CHILDISH....

SO, NOW I MUST ASK SOME QUESTIONS TO FIND OUT EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN AND HOW THIS BASIS COMES TO BE BECAUSE IN MY OPINION, IT'S 150% INACCURATE, AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND YOUR BASIS ON WHY ANY KIND OF MASS CANNOT BE PUT ON WITH LESS THAN 6IU'S OF MUSCLE GROWTH BEFORE I COMPLETELY PICK IT APART...

1) ARE WE TALKING ABOUT JUST TAKING HGH BY ITSELF OR WITH AAS??

2) ARE YOU ACTUALLY DIETING OR BEING A LAZY FUCK SITTING ON THE COUCH??? (AND BY DIETING, I MEAN EATING RIGHT, NOT TRYING TO LOSE WEIGHT)

3) HOW DO YOU DEFINE POSITIVE NITROGEN RETENTION AND HOW DO YOU GET YOUR BODY IN THAT STATE??

4) IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TAKING HGH WITH GEAR, WHY WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO PUT ON "OVERALL BODY MASS" WITHOUT HGH, BUT NOT PUT ON A SINGLE POUND OF WEIGHT WITH HGH (LESS THAN 6IU'S) DAILY???

5) WHY WOULD YOU HAVE TO TAKE IN 5K - 7K CALS TO PUT ON "OVERALL BODY MASS"... IF I WAS A 180 POUND BODYBUILDER THAT WANTED TO BULK UP, I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT 3500-4000 CALORIES WOULD CERTAINLY UP MY BODY WEIGHT, EVEN IF I WAS TAKING 2-4.5IU'S HGH ALL BY ITSELF....

6) YOU STATE THAT 20% OF PEOPLE CAN'T DO WHAT I CLAIM... WELL I CERTAINLY CAN TELL YOU THIS.. REGUARDLESS OF GENETICS... IF 20% OFF PEOPLE KNEW WHAT THE FUCK THEY WERE DOING THEN THEY CAN CERTAINLY ACHEIVE WHAT I HAVE STATED... SAME AS 50%.. AND SAME AS 75%....

IF YOU PREFER, I CAN HOLD A CONTEST TO HAVE RANDOM MEMBERS WHO CHOSE TO TAKE PART.... WE CAN HAVE EVERY STATE THAT WE HAVE DISCUSSED, AND I CAN SET UP THE REGIMINE EXACTLY AS I'VE EXPLAINED FOR EACH ONE OF THEM AND I'M SO SURE, I'M WILLING TO PUT $5K DOWN ON IT.... ARE YOU THAT SURE TO BET THE SAME????

TO BE CONTINUED.....

GY...

 

[Juice Authority]

Were you taking any gear?? What was your diet like??

Now your results are more on the "norm" These are results I usually see from most.

I guess we just dont know how to take it right!

No gear, just HGH on a low carb diet for the first two months. I started taking Winstrol (winny) tabs a month ago as a kickstart to the 10 week bulking cycle I'm on now, which is:

600mg's of Enan per week
300mg of Prop per week
700mg's of Tren per week
400mg's of Equi per week
6IU's of hgh ED 5 days on 2 days off

I'll be adding 50 mg's of D-bol ED for 4 weeks starting next week.

 

[Juice Authority]

Citruscide - Elite Moderator...

"No... I don't think you need SLIN to grow on GH...

I think if you take it in combination with a good mg of test and EQ or Fina + Winstrol (winny) or fina + Winstrol (winny) + test... LOL -- you get my picture

It has always been my experience that GH amplifies the effects of any test or anabolic I take... I put 10lbs on with test... I'll put like 15+ on with GH+test... not to mention, I will stay lean.

Although, if I were to spend the $$$ on GH, I'd probably spring the what pennies it costs to get slin???

Be careful taking slin... you need to do ALOT of research before doing that stuff... cut, bulk... it does it all... depends on how you use it and what you eat. Be careful".

 

[supergirl]

No gear, just HGH on a low carb diet for the first two months. I started taking Winstrol (winny) tabs a month ago as a kickstart to the 10 week bulking cycle I'm on now, which is:

600mg's of Enan per week
300mg of Prop per week
700mg's of Tren per week
400mg's of Equi per week
6IU's of hgh ED 5 days on 2 days off

I'll be adding 50 mg's of D-bol ED for 4 weeks starting next week.

That is why you did not see weight gain.... GH will cause weight gain with High calories and carbs stacked with gear!!...

let me clarify a bit... back to the insulin topic... firstly.. it is dangerous as all hell... but knowing that, will it help build mass... YES.. is it necessary?? NO

now as far as gh making you insulin resisitant... NO it does not if you supply your body enough carbs.. that is why you will hear people say you can eat and still lose... NOW.. if you do NOT supply enough carbs, GH CAN therefore cause insulin resistance resulting in hyperglycemia... SEE THE DIFFERENCE??

I just want to clarify this, not that newbies and such run out to shoot insulin in there bodies and slip themselves into a coma...

Hey Lawn.. that was the point i was trying to make... and i belive GY was trying to solidify that point.. but i sweet talk ya much more

I know you are trying to do a good thing here and you do have a plethera of knowledge and research, HOWEVER.. i just do not want some who are NOT as knowledgable mislead in believing that insulin and over 6ius a day are the ONLY way to grow.. because that is just crazy... cool?


3-6ius of gh a day combined with a high calorie diet (~5k cals) high protein and carbs WILL cause growth... the MAIN principle of growth hormone is to GROW.. hence the key word LOL basically meaning that gh causes an increase in body cell mass (increases the # of muscle cells) and extracellular water volume. So it does not increase the size, but the volume.. and the more cells the more turnover and recovery means the more potential for growth...


Does that help clear it all up a bit???

and gh would be best run for a good 6 months combined with an Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) for best results...

luv super

 

[GEORGE YOUNG]

THAT'S QUITE AMUSING.. I JST PM'D NANDI TO COME AND TOUCH ON THIS TOPIC.... IRONMASTERS IS ALSO A KNOWLEDGABLE BRO ON THIS TOPIC AS WELL....

AS FAR AS YOUR DIET GOES, WELL, NATURALLY, WITH A LOW CARB DIET, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO INCREASE ANY BODY WEIGHT... THIS IS WHY I ASKED "WHAT IS POSITIVE NITROGEN RETENTION AND HOW DO YOU GET INTO THAT STATE"....

WHAT IS THE BODY'S MAIN SOURCE OF FUEL?? ANYBODY??? AHHH... THE CARBOHYDRATE.... ONCE THE CARBOHYDRATES ARE DEPLETED, WHAT'S NEXXT IN LINE??? FAT.... THEN PROTEIN... SO OF COURSE YOUR CARBS AND FAT ARE THE FIRST TOO TO GO, AND IF YOU'RE EATING EVERY FEW HOURS, YOUR METABOLISM SHOULD BE KICKING INTO OVERDRIVE... I'LL ASSUME YOU HAVEN'T BEEN LOSING WEIGHT, OR YOU MIGHT BE BITCHING ABOUT WEIGHT LOSS, SO I'LL ASSUME THAT YOU'RE TAKING IN ENOUGH PROTEIN TO MAINTAIN WHAT YOU ALREADY HAVE... BUT WHAT IS MUSCLE... HOW IS IT BUILT AND FROM WHAT IS IT BUILT FROM..... PROTEIN.... ARE YOU TAKING ENOUGH PROTEIN TO MAINTAIN WHAT YOU ALREADY HAVE AND THEN SOME MORE FOR THE BODY TO CREATE MORE MUSCLE??? IF YOU'RE NOT PUTTING ON ANY MASS, THE ANSWER IS NO... OR MAYBE YOU ARE EATING MORE THAN ENOUGH PROTEIN TO MAINTAIN WHAT YOU HAVE AND CREATE NEW MUSCEL GROWTH, BUT YOUR CARBS ARE TOO LOW, DEPLETING ALL CARBS, AND MOVING ON TO BURN OFF BOTH FAT AND PROTEIN....

THUS, NO WEIGHT GAIN, BUT INCREASED FAT LOSS...

GY....

 

[Juice Authority]

GY, I'm not arguing your point at all. In fact, the thread of at Elite supports what you were saying all along. My goal for the first couple of months was go down in BF% yet maintain my overall weight. That's the reason for the low-carb diet and no AS. From what I can tell, both you and Lawnsaver have valid points supported by medical abstracts, articles and well-respected vets and mods over at Elite.

 

[Doc Banner]

wouldn't GH only cause the slin resistance while it was active, when most people are probably napping or sleeping anyway (not eating)?

 

[Doc Banner]

btw, great thread, this is one thing (GH) I'd like to learn more about

 

[LAWNSAVER]

GY and SG....you are completely missing what I am saying!!

I guess I am liked on these board and have earned the rank of Moderator, because I keep things simple stupid for the average person that comes on these boards.

Above you explained that GH will NOT cause insulin resistence! Right? Then below you said if you dont eat enough carbs you can. This is what I'm talking about.

95% of the people who use gear on these boards do not completely commit themselves to the dedication it takes with their diet to get to the next level.

GY...I'm not argueing with you about any of your points, you are explaining 100%, but how many people do what it takes?? Not as many as we would hope for. SO....I felt compelled to explain what it takes and what to expect for the "average Joe" who take GH to expect.

I did just that. GY...not everyone here is 5-7% BF. 99% of us how so much BF to lose, hence the difference in results. No matter how much I ate when on GH, I never gain weight! I always had so much BF to lose, as do most of us here.

Do you truely think my statements were meant for everyone including the elite bodybuilders we have here?? I am not here for them! I am here for the newbies to get a taste and a basic understanding on what is going to happen to them when taking certain substances.

I always say diet is the key....Well genetic plays a huge roll in it too!
I have shitty genetics...I gain fat to easy.

I'm rambling again!!

GY...SG, you guys know a hell of a lot more than me! I have to say my info which might be a little off to the most knowledgable person out there, works for the majority of the people we have here....1-5 cycles under their belt and 12%bf, which means 17% Bf, it works and makes sense to them.

So to summarize...does gh cause insulin resistence? Yes, if you dont eat enough carbs. Most people dont! Will Gh cause dramatic weight gain without slin?? Yes, but only with a very strong diet, which most here cant commit to. Will Slin make a big difference to the average guy taking Gh that wants to gain Size?? Absolutely! Can they do it without it?? Yes, but it will take complete and total diet dedication, good genetics, and a low BF content! Why?? Because GH's fat burning effects are greater than its muscle building properties. So if I am 15-17% BF and want to gain weight on GH, I probably wont gain, because of the amount of fat I had to lose.

These are the points I was trying to hit on!

I dont have anything more to say, because I am not a GH guru! I just know how it is taken by most, and what it usually dose when taken.

SG...GY, you guys know your stuff, but think for a moment to who is listening. Also, think are these people really going to do exactly what is needed, or maybe they want to take an easier route.

I'll leave the competitive advice to you guys and I'll stick to helping the average Joe learn the basics.

 

[supergirl]

So to summarize...does gh cause insulin resistence? Yes, if you dont eat enough carbs. Most people dont! Will Gh cause dramatic weight gain without slin?? Yes, but only with a very strong diet, which most here cant commit to. Will Slin make a big difference to the average guy taking Gh that wants to gain Size?? Absolutely! Can they do it without it?? Yes, but it will take complete and total diet dedication, good genetics, and a low BF content! Why?? Because GH's fat burning effects are greater than its muscle building properties. So if I am 15-17% BF and want to gain weight on GH, I probably wont gain, because of the amount of fat I had to lose.

These are the points I was trying to hit on!

I dont have anything more to say, because I am not a GH guru! I just know how it is taken by most, and what it usually dose when taken.

SG...GY, you guys know your stuff, but think for a moment to who is listening. Also, think are these people really going to do exactly what is needed, or maybe they want to take an easier route.

I'll leave the competitive advice to you guys and I'll stick to helping the average Joe learn the basics.

what you just said in your summarization is PERFECT!!! BUT.. knowledge, research and information is valid regardless to whom it is directed.. granted layman's terms when it comes to medical knowledge is easier to understand, but the concept is always the same...

From what you are saying.. you want to give information to the average Joe who does not follow their diets but uses gear anyway??? OK.. i see your point, but does that mean that they should not beware of how gh/slin etc truly works?!?!? Just because they slack does not mean they should not know what they can and might achieve if used correctly... see my point sweetie??

Lawn, this is not an attack at you at all... You are my sweetie!!! I was just trying to clarify a few things here... SLIN is such a touchy component and really takes EXPERIENCE and knowledge... SO therefore, if you want to give advice to the average Joe.. then the best advice you can give them is NOT to use slin without a doctor's care!!!
That is the best advice for the average Joe who does not want to be strict in his diet, training and gear usage...

But then again... If you are gonna do something, do it 100% and do it right... Why play games with your body and waste your time!!

But your summary is absolutely perfect and completely summarizes it all up so nicely!!!

Keep up the great work Lawn... i think you are an asset to this board and i value your opinion and hard work!!! So please do not be upset with me at all as i was just trying to clarify and make a few points too

 

[death on the field]

oh cmon now guys dont get all nice and mushy, the "attacks" and "defenses" were some pretty good posts, so lets keep this thing going. Mr Young or supergirl, can you see if theres anything you would add or subtract from the article i wrote, that way it can be more clean and concise for future people referencing it. I would like to take all the knowledge from you guys and this thread and add it in if possible. Please write your opinions here or pm them to me.

 

[LAWNSAVER]

SG...clarification is a beautiful thing. I value the knowledge I learn everyday. But, I wasnt that far off on most of my points. Which were slin makes a huge difference, and GH can cause insulin resisitance. You did clarify it wont happen if you eat enough carbs.

I did generalize and assume that most people that use it have a lot of BF to lose. I will say, if you are lean, and you dedicate yourself to a high cal/protien diet, you will gain size. I will say that if you are over 12% BF, you probably wont gain a lot of weight at all, and might just lose some because of the overwhelming advantage GH has in regards to fat lose over anabolism.

The bottom line is we all learn here and I feel honored to be apart of this board. I wish the knowledge I have learned over the years could make me some freaking money! LOL

 

[Juice Authority]

SG...clarification is a beautiful thing. I value the knowledge I learn everyday. But, I wasnt that far off on most of my points. Which were slin makes a huge difference, and GH can cause insulin resisitance. You did clarify it wont happen if you eat enough carbs.

I did generalize and assume that most people that use it have a lot of BF to lose. I will say, if you are lean, and you dedicate yourself to a high cal/protien diet, you will gain size. I will say that if you are over 12% BF, you probably wont gain a lot of weight at all, and might just lose some because of the overwhelming advantage GH has in regards to fat lose over anabolism.

The bottom line is we all learn here and I feel honored to be apart of this board. I wish the knowledge I have learned over the years could make me some freaking money! LOL

You can always write a book like George Spellwin did...

 

[Doc Banner]

I have to disagree about the slin SG, it's easy to use, you just have to eat clean and get enough carbs not to go hypo. It's not rocket science.

 

[LAWNSAVER]

I have to disagree about the slin SG, it's easy to use, you just have to eat clean and get enough carbs not to go hypo. It's not rocket science.

Doc, I'm glad you chimmed in. I really didnt want to go there, but only an idiot would harm himself with slin.

I have done up to 100ius with as little as 2 grams of carbs per iu. I did that for 3 days. I felt a little shakey on the third day, drank a coke and was fine.

Slin is safe as long as you have an idea and know how it effects you.

This is a whole different thread all together.