DeezlePwrd
New member
NOTE: Post is long-winded, but, in an attempt to prevent someone posting a meaningless response (you should just B&C, or I like Arimidex better) without providing a why, or even some data (even from a personal experience), I assumed the amount of information I'm providing will help to nullify some of this, as most won't read the amount of detail I'm willing to produce to receive the best advice. To this point, I've also read enough from Mods, and Vets, to know that those who can REALLY apply some sound logic to my situation, will want as much info as I can produce initially, without having to ask for it.
Hey all, looking for some finite advice, as it pertains to using HCG, both DURING cycle and as a component for HPTA Restart (see below, I'll explain this in further detail).
I've read some SOLID info about HCG and PCT usage, however, have regrettably never used HCG, and to be candid, never ran PCT as I should've (based on the myriad of posts I've read all over this forum), and bc of that, have experienced some needless sides, which in turn, has made me question gear usage again. (Heart palpitations, extended recovery times, low test (pretty much shut down - see bloods below, etc) - ALSO, no need to blast me about my shitfuck decisions to use gear WITHOUT knowing how to properly do so BEFORE, as 1. I am the one dealing with the issues now, and 2. I'm a pretty real and candid guy. As such, nothing you're going to say to me that I haven't already blasted myself with. Just looking for some sound advice as, in my opinion, my personal situation is a bit tricky, and I'm having issues piecing the best route together.
Personal Info
34 yr old
6'0 - 230 +/-
Weight training for nearly 20 years. A couple of bodybuilding competitions about 10 years ago. Strong man competitions throughout undergrad (10-12 years ago). Multiple arm wrestling competitions over the years (easily my favorite and best results)
Blood Work Results
See bottom of post - *Edited, as original post had blood work as attached PDF
Just received results from my most recent blood test, and, given that this is the first time I've done this, I'm looking for some insight as to how to interpret the results. Admittedly, I am NOW, after years of using gear the wrong way (no blood work before or after, no proper PCT, no HCG, etc), I'm looking to start my next cycle. That stated, its been over a year since me last. Note: Fasted for 12 hours for this test. Tests done Natty. No gear ran for over a year.
* Concern I have initially would be the LOW total and free test numbers. Is this something of relative concern? I know my last cycle, a year ago, was Test E and Winny, ran for 16 weeks, at 500 mg of test a week, so, I KNOW I felt completely shut down after I got off. That stated, like a dumbass (another reason why I havent ran shit for a year, and have been researching DOING SHIT THE RIGHT WAY), obviously my shit has not come back, given my test results. Is this possible to run HCG during my next cycle to help these come back, or, is this just something I've permanently fucked and need to take a look at TRT? To that point, will a Dr. find these test results sufficient to start TRT, IF I have to walk that path?
* Bun numbers. I'm hoping this is high due to my daily protein intake (weigh about 230 - protein intake at about 350 g per day). Thoughts here?
* Any additional insight relative to running Arimidex or Aromasin while on? Plan to run HCG during and use Nolva and either Arimidex or Aromasin for PCT, pending on IF I run the other during cycle. Not planning to use Clomid, based on sides. Any advice would be appreciated.
Personal Situation
So, to keep it short - as stated previously, I've been waiting a year, reading and researching, before I ordered my next cycle. That stated, I ordered the cycle below and am still awaiting the pack. But, in the interim, I have some T Prop and T Suspension, and have been running 100 mg (T-TH - T Prop), and 75 mg (MWF - Suspension), for the last 10 days until pack gets here. Will drop suspension and start protocol, as outlined below, when pack arrives.
Went ahead and got bloodwork done, so as to establish a baseline, BEFORE started pinning above mentioned. Like a dumbass (again, I know), I started pinning the above, BEFORE I received the results. Received the results and oh shit, my test is low! Why? I havent felt off, at least, nothing like I did when I came off a year ago, and have maintained intensity in my training, manning up and pushing thru like normal, when you feel an off day. As such, I didn't think my test would be low, as again, Ive been off for a year and thought my shit wouldve come back by now.
Perhaps this is just my test baseline now? Maybe, I don't need a RESTART per se, but, more of a 'tune-up', if this makes sense? But, this is still low. As such, I'm speculating that Im shut down, and now that Ive been pinning a fast T esther for 10 days, I've definitely noticed some gains, water retention, 'I can lift the gym feeling' you usually get. *Note: NO HCG or AI started yet. Will start ASAP, based on what I feedback I receive here.
So, having stated that, I'm thinking to run HCG, as outlined below, DURING the cycle (I think HPTA is already shut down, based on bloods). That stated, DO I RUN HCG, OR EVEN BLAST HCG (I've read reviews that blasting works to get testes fired up, and, that blasting doesn't, as desensitization can set in around 6-8 weeks) AFTER THE CYCLE AS WELL, IN ATTEMPT TO RESTART, AND HAVE THIS WORK IN CONCERT WITH PCT. Then, utilize Aromasin (if Arimidex is used as AI during cycle), clomid and nolva protocol, after discontinuing HCG? To this point, I've read that:
* Clomid should always be taken with Nolva in PCT
* Clomid should be taken with HCG during restart, then discontinued when HCG is discontinued, with Nolva introduced.
* Clomid is the spawn of the devil, based on the sides, and shouldn't be used ever.
Thoughts?
***As you can see, I'm trying to ensure my PCT protocol is sufficient, and will work in concert with a solid Restart, IF, based on my bloods, a true restart is deemed necessary. I'm not really interested in B&C or TRT, if this can, at all be prevented.***
Proposed Cycle
I may be splitting hairs here, but, I've read a considerable amount of research RE: the two (Armidex and Aromasin), and jusssssst when I think I come to a conclusion, I find an 'old' thread or post where someone throws another perspective in, leading me to a series of additional searches. That stated, I would welcome feedback from anyone who's had experience with both, and has a preference.
Week 1-8 Test Prop (100) ED (Backfilling insulin syringe)
Week 1-8 Anavar (50) ED
Week 1-8 HCG (250ius) 2x week (3x week if needed)
Week 1-8 Arimidex (.25) 2x week, OR, EOD, if needed.
*Donating blood at week 4.
*Bloodwork after cycle.
*Bloodwork after 1st cycle of PCT, as I'm speculating I might need a strong(er) restart protocol.
Now, my question(s) is/are: can I run Arimidex both DURING and POST cycle (with Tamox)? Or, would it be better to run Aromasin for PCT, with Tamox, for PCT, after having run Arimidex during cycle?
Also, I've read several reviews stating Tamox and Clomid, when ran together, may prove counterproductive for PCT, and conversely, have seen several who work to incorporate BOTH during their PCT. My concern here would be the less than favorable reviews, as it relates to the sides associated with Clomid. As such, I'm entertaining working towards NOT using Clomid at all, in fear of the "I wanna punch a puppy in the face, Im so depressed" sides, I've read. Any thoughts on this, particularly as it relates to my situation (most research I've seen indicate the Clomid is a integral component when working to restart HPTA).
Test Name Result Flag Reference R ange Lab
CBC With Differential/Platelet
WBC 5.2 3.4-10. 8 x10E3/uL 01
RBC 4.91 4.14-5.80 x10E6/uL 01
Hemoglobin 14.6 12.6-17.7 g/dL 01
Hematocrit 42.9 37.5-51.0 % 01
MCV 87 79-97 fL 01
MCH 29.7 26.6-33.0 pg 01
MCHC 34.0 31.5-35.7 g/dL 01
RDW 13.5 12.3-15.4 % 01
Platelets 236 150-379 x10E3/uL 01
Neutrophils 54 % 01
Lymphs 39 % 01
Monocytes 6 % 01
Eos 1 % 01
Basos 0 % 01
Neutrophils (Absolute) 2.8 1.4-7.0 x10E3/uL 01
Lymphs (Absolute) 2.0 0.7-3.1 x10E3/uL 01
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.3 0.1-0.9 x10E3/uL 01
Eos (Absolute) 0.0 0.0-0.4 x10E3/uL 01
Baso (Absolute) 0.0 0.0-0.2 x10E3/uL 01
Immature Granulocytes 0 % 01
Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 0.0-0.1 x10E3/uL 01
Comp. Metabolic Panel (14)
Glucose, Serum 88 65-99 mg/dL 01
BUN 23 HIGH 6-20 mg/dL 01
Creatinine, Serum 1.04 0.76-1.27 mg/dL 01
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 93 >59 mL/min/1.73 01
eGFR If Africn Am 108 >59 mL/min/1.73 01
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 22 HIGH 8-19 01
Sodium, Serum 140 134-144 mmol/L 01
Potassium, Serum 4.4 3.5-5.2 mmol/L 01
Chloride, Serum 101 96-106 mmol/L 01
Carbon Dioxide, Total 24 18-29 mmol/L 01
Calcium, Serum 9.4 8.7-10.2 mg/dL 01
Protein, Total, Serum 6.8 6.0-8.5 g/dL 01
Albumin, Serum 4.8 3.5-5.5 g/dL 01
Globulin, Total 2.0 1.5-4.5 g/dL 01
A/G Ratio 2.4 1.1-2.5 01
Bilirubin, Total 1.2 0.0-1.2 mg/dL 01
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 85 39-117 IU/L 01
AST (SGOT) 23 0-40 IU/L 01
ALT (SGPT) 36 0-44 IU/L 01
Testosterone, Free+Total LC/MS
1 of 2
Testosterone, Total, LC/MS 276.4 LOW 3 48.0-1197.0 ng/dL 02
n.
Free Testosterone(Direct) 6.7 LOW 8.7-25.1 pg/mL 02
Luteinizing Hormone(LH), S
LH 5.4 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL 01
FSH, Serum
FSH 4.8 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL 01
Estradiol
Estradiol 12.0 7.6-42.6 pg/mL 01
Hey all, looking for some finite advice, as it pertains to using HCG, both DURING cycle and as a component for HPTA Restart (see below, I'll explain this in further detail).
I've read some SOLID info about HCG and PCT usage, however, have regrettably never used HCG, and to be candid, never ran PCT as I should've (based on the myriad of posts I've read all over this forum), and bc of that, have experienced some needless sides, which in turn, has made me question gear usage again. (Heart palpitations, extended recovery times, low test (pretty much shut down - see bloods below, etc) - ALSO, no need to blast me about my shitfuck decisions to use gear WITHOUT knowing how to properly do so BEFORE, as 1. I am the one dealing with the issues now, and 2. I'm a pretty real and candid guy. As such, nothing you're going to say to me that I haven't already blasted myself with. Just looking for some sound advice as, in my opinion, my personal situation is a bit tricky, and I'm having issues piecing the best route together.
Personal Info
34 yr old
6'0 - 230 +/-
Weight training for nearly 20 years. A couple of bodybuilding competitions about 10 years ago. Strong man competitions throughout undergrad (10-12 years ago). Multiple arm wrestling competitions over the years (easily my favorite and best results)
Blood Work Results
See bottom of post - *Edited, as original post had blood work as attached PDF
Just received results from my most recent blood test, and, given that this is the first time I've done this, I'm looking for some insight as to how to interpret the results. Admittedly, I am NOW, after years of using gear the wrong way (no blood work before or after, no proper PCT, no HCG, etc), I'm looking to start my next cycle. That stated, its been over a year since me last. Note: Fasted for 12 hours for this test. Tests done Natty. No gear ran for over a year.
* Concern I have initially would be the LOW total and free test numbers. Is this something of relative concern? I know my last cycle, a year ago, was Test E and Winny, ran for 16 weeks, at 500 mg of test a week, so, I KNOW I felt completely shut down after I got off. That stated, like a dumbass (another reason why I havent ran shit for a year, and have been researching DOING SHIT THE RIGHT WAY), obviously my shit has not come back, given my test results. Is this possible to run HCG during my next cycle to help these come back, or, is this just something I've permanently fucked and need to take a look at TRT? To that point, will a Dr. find these test results sufficient to start TRT, IF I have to walk that path?
* Bun numbers. I'm hoping this is high due to my daily protein intake (weigh about 230 - protein intake at about 350 g per day). Thoughts here?
* Any additional insight relative to running Arimidex or Aromasin while on? Plan to run HCG during and use Nolva and either Arimidex or Aromasin for PCT, pending on IF I run the other during cycle. Not planning to use Clomid, based on sides. Any advice would be appreciated.
Personal Situation
So, to keep it short - as stated previously, I've been waiting a year, reading and researching, before I ordered my next cycle. That stated, I ordered the cycle below and am still awaiting the pack. But, in the interim, I have some T Prop and T Suspension, and have been running 100 mg (T-TH - T Prop), and 75 mg (MWF - Suspension), for the last 10 days until pack gets here. Will drop suspension and start protocol, as outlined below, when pack arrives.
Went ahead and got bloodwork done, so as to establish a baseline, BEFORE started pinning above mentioned. Like a dumbass (again, I know), I started pinning the above, BEFORE I received the results. Received the results and oh shit, my test is low! Why? I havent felt off, at least, nothing like I did when I came off a year ago, and have maintained intensity in my training, manning up and pushing thru like normal, when you feel an off day. As such, I didn't think my test would be low, as again, Ive been off for a year and thought my shit wouldve come back by now.
Perhaps this is just my test baseline now? Maybe, I don't need a RESTART per se, but, more of a 'tune-up', if this makes sense? But, this is still low. As such, I'm speculating that Im shut down, and now that Ive been pinning a fast T esther for 10 days, I've definitely noticed some gains, water retention, 'I can lift the gym feeling' you usually get. *Note: NO HCG or AI started yet. Will start ASAP, based on what I feedback I receive here.
So, having stated that, I'm thinking to run HCG, as outlined below, DURING the cycle (I think HPTA is already shut down, based on bloods). That stated, DO I RUN HCG, OR EVEN BLAST HCG (I've read reviews that blasting works to get testes fired up, and, that blasting doesn't, as desensitization can set in around 6-8 weeks) AFTER THE CYCLE AS WELL, IN ATTEMPT TO RESTART, AND HAVE THIS WORK IN CONCERT WITH PCT. Then, utilize Aromasin (if Arimidex is used as AI during cycle), clomid and nolva protocol, after discontinuing HCG? To this point, I've read that:
* Clomid should always be taken with Nolva in PCT
* Clomid should be taken with HCG during restart, then discontinued when HCG is discontinued, with Nolva introduced.
* Clomid is the spawn of the devil, based on the sides, and shouldn't be used ever.
Thoughts?
***As you can see, I'm trying to ensure my PCT protocol is sufficient, and will work in concert with a solid Restart, IF, based on my bloods, a true restart is deemed necessary. I'm not really interested in B&C or TRT, if this can, at all be prevented.***
Proposed Cycle
I may be splitting hairs here, but, I've read a considerable amount of research RE: the two (Armidex and Aromasin), and jusssssst when I think I come to a conclusion, I find an 'old' thread or post where someone throws another perspective in, leading me to a series of additional searches. That stated, I would welcome feedback from anyone who's had experience with both, and has a preference.
Week 1-8 Test Prop (100) ED (Backfilling insulin syringe)
Week 1-8 Anavar (50) ED
Week 1-8 HCG (250ius) 2x week (3x week if needed)
Week 1-8 Arimidex (.25) 2x week, OR, EOD, if needed.
*Donating blood at week 4.
*Bloodwork after cycle.
*Bloodwork after 1st cycle of PCT, as I'm speculating I might need a strong(er) restart protocol.
Now, my question(s) is/are: can I run Arimidex both DURING and POST cycle (with Tamox)? Or, would it be better to run Aromasin for PCT, with Tamox, for PCT, after having run Arimidex during cycle?
Also, I've read several reviews stating Tamox and Clomid, when ran together, may prove counterproductive for PCT, and conversely, have seen several who work to incorporate BOTH during their PCT. My concern here would be the less than favorable reviews, as it relates to the sides associated with Clomid. As such, I'm entertaining working towards NOT using Clomid at all, in fear of the "I wanna punch a puppy in the face, Im so depressed" sides, I've read. Any thoughts on this, particularly as it relates to my situation (most research I've seen indicate the Clomid is a integral component when working to restart HPTA).
Test Name Result Flag Reference R ange Lab
CBC With Differential/Platelet
WBC 5.2 3.4-10. 8 x10E3/uL 01
RBC 4.91 4.14-5.80 x10E6/uL 01
Hemoglobin 14.6 12.6-17.7 g/dL 01
Hematocrit 42.9 37.5-51.0 % 01
MCV 87 79-97 fL 01
MCH 29.7 26.6-33.0 pg 01
MCHC 34.0 31.5-35.7 g/dL 01
RDW 13.5 12.3-15.4 % 01
Platelets 236 150-379 x10E3/uL 01
Neutrophils 54 % 01
Lymphs 39 % 01
Monocytes 6 % 01
Eos 1 % 01
Basos 0 % 01
Neutrophils (Absolute) 2.8 1.4-7.0 x10E3/uL 01
Lymphs (Absolute) 2.0 0.7-3.1 x10E3/uL 01
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.3 0.1-0.9 x10E3/uL 01
Eos (Absolute) 0.0 0.0-0.4 x10E3/uL 01
Baso (Absolute) 0.0 0.0-0.2 x10E3/uL 01
Immature Granulocytes 0 % 01
Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 0.0-0.1 x10E3/uL 01
Comp. Metabolic Panel (14)
Glucose, Serum 88 65-99 mg/dL 01
BUN 23 HIGH 6-20 mg/dL 01
Creatinine, Serum 1.04 0.76-1.27 mg/dL 01
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 93 >59 mL/min/1.73 01
eGFR If Africn Am 108 >59 mL/min/1.73 01
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 22 HIGH 8-19 01
Sodium, Serum 140 134-144 mmol/L 01
Potassium, Serum 4.4 3.5-5.2 mmol/L 01
Chloride, Serum 101 96-106 mmol/L 01
Carbon Dioxide, Total 24 18-29 mmol/L 01
Calcium, Serum 9.4 8.7-10.2 mg/dL 01
Protein, Total, Serum 6.8 6.0-8.5 g/dL 01
Albumin, Serum 4.8 3.5-5.5 g/dL 01
Globulin, Total 2.0 1.5-4.5 g/dL 01
A/G Ratio 2.4 1.1-2.5 01
Bilirubin, Total 1.2 0.0-1.2 mg/dL 01
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 85 39-117 IU/L 01
AST (SGOT) 23 0-40 IU/L 01
ALT (SGPT) 36 0-44 IU/L 01
Testosterone, Free+Total LC/MS
1 of 2
Testosterone, Total, LC/MS 276.4 LOW 3 48.0-1197.0 ng/dL 02
n.
Free Testosterone(Direct) 6.7 LOW 8.7-25.1 pg/mL 02
Luteinizing Hormone(LH), S
LH 5.4 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL 01
FSH, Serum
FSH 4.8 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL 01
Estradiol
Estradiol 12.0 7.6-42.6 pg/mL 01
But your TT is in the crapper. So yea you gotta do something. Depending on the strength of the compounds and time on (plus if you did any previous cycles that you never fully recovered from, which is common, those all get strung together as one) we like to see 2- 8 months of HCG.