Help a brother out: Liver Issues!!!

[Dirk Diggler99]

A month ago I went in for pre cycle blood work to find out that my ALT is 56 (max reference range of 40). It has been at 56 for over a year now. I have not run any gear in over 2 years. My doc wasn't concerned with a reading of 56, however she was curious as to why it hasn't changed in a year so she sent me for a liver ultrasound. The result: a minor case of fatty liver. I do not drink so it was not caused by alcohol. She told me that I do not have to do anything differently than someone who doesn't have fatty liver, however she said that I should limit my intake of fats... so now I'm watching my diet and eating cleaner.

So what does this mean? I have been waiting forever to run a cycle (as I had gyno surgery a year ago) and now another speed bump pops up...

Can I still run gear? Maybe just take it easy on the orals or run no orals at all?
Being gyno prone I have been advised to run an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) + nolva throughout my cycles however i read that nolva hard on the liver...

My last cycle 2 years ago was test e, tbol, and then Anavar (var) with nolva throughout the cycle. nolva clomid pct.

I've been looking for threads from people in similar situations as me however I can't find much on cycling with fatty liver.

I read an ancient thread by Lucky13 regarding high liver enzymes and would like to know how his situation played out... hopefully he finds this post

Any help is appreciated, thanks guys.

 

[Austinite]

That sucks. Not much you can do about a non-alcohol related fatty liver. Did you lose a ton of weight quickly at some point?

If you do cycle, like you said, stay away from orals and most certainly Tren. Tren will wreak havoc on that liver. No matter what you're cycling you need to supplement with NAC, at least 1200mg daily. Do whatever you can to keep cholesterol low. If you take Fish oils, be sure to take them with Vitamin E tocopherols to protect the fatty acids.

I would also talk to your doctor about getting a prescription for Metformin @ 500mg daily.

 

[Rumpy]

I also have a history of high ALT and mild fatty liver, but in my case, I think it is from drinking. I stopped drinking completely for 4 weeks before my last test and things improved a ton. I do use dbol in low doses, along with a lot of liver protectors, and I do not drink while I'm on cycle, but I've never had a blood test on cycle to see how I'm doing. For you, I wish you knew what was causing it. 56 is not that bad, but you should probably not use any orals at all. If it were me, I would run just Test E or C with normal PCT along with something for your liver, just on principle. NAC and ALA are supposed to be the best. I'm using something called Liver Armor right now, but like I said, no blood test so who knows if it's helping. I guess the best thing to do would be to get a blood test half way through to see what's going on. I'd go to privemedlabs rather than your doc for that one. How's your ALS and GGT?

 

[Rumpy]

Austinite, never heard of Metformin. What does it do? Sorry OP, not trying to hijack your thread.

 

[Austinite]

Austinite, never heard of Metformin. What does it do? Sorry OP, not trying to hijack your thread.

Controls blood sugar. I use it daily. Diabetics use it at higher doses but 500mg is safe for non-diabetics and I believe OP can benefit in his case.

 

[2rude4u]

Absolutely no orals and start Liv 52 along with Oil of Oregano. The OOO tastes like shit and burns a little, but is clinically proven to regenerate liver cells at a fairly fast rate. NAC as mentioned above is also a good addition.

 

[Dirk Diggler99]

I'm wondering if it is from all the ai's and serms i was taking 2 years ago to try and cure my gyno... i was taking letro for a month before i decided to just get the surgery. I don't know what ALS is. Do you mean AST?

A year ago: AST was 38 (range <35)
ALT was 56 (range 10-40)

Now: AST 29 (range <35)
ALT 56 (range 10-40)

My GGT is 44 (range 0-50)

I have also been taking LiverCare for a month now. Since taking LiverCare, i have noticed a tightness in my liver region when I inhale deep (which is a common symptom of fatty liver). Maybe it means that it is forcing my liver to heal? Or maybe it is just the placebo effect...

I'm in Canada and we don't have privatemdlabs. I got my "pre cycle" bloodwork by telling the doc at a walk in that I had gyno and wanted to keep my estrogen in check. I also told her i had an elevated ALT a year ago. She agreed to a full male hormone panel and to test my liver. Everything was fine except for ALT.

So assuming I do go with a test only cycle, what do I do about Ai's and serms on cycle? Just run some aromasin on cycle and leave the nolva for pct? I can avoid all orals except ais and serms...

 

[Dirk Diggler99]

Assuming I do cycle and don't run orals, what effect are the ai's and serms going to have on my liver? Also, What can I run with test that is injectable? Since I am prone to gyno i will not be running deca or tren, so that leaves EQ (which I have done little research on and don't know a lot about at this moment) and mast. Primo is too expensive.

And Austinite, no I have not lost a bunch of weight lately. Apparently I have had a fatty liver for over a year now and didn't know. I assumed my high liver enzymes were from the letro (which I was on at the time of the blood test). My surgeon who did my gyno surgery figured it could be from creatine since I didn't tell him I ran any gear (we all know that doctors will blame everything on gear once they hear you have used it).

 

[Rumpy]

Yes, AST is what I meant. Just like me, everything is good except ALT. From what I've learned, it can take 6 weeks for your liver values to return to normal if something has really irritated it, like alcohol in my case. I've also read a hard workout can elevate them for a day or two, and it's best to not workout for a couple of days before the blood draw. If you want to play it safe, stop taking EVERYTHING for 6 weeks and get another test. I'm sure both our doctors would disagree, but according to Brofessor logic, if you get one good blood test then you know that things are basically good, and you've just been doing something to irritate it. This allows you to pick your poison. In my case, I quit drinking but started using Dbol, so I'm sure my liver is mad at me. I plan to wait 3 months after this cycle, to get my next test. If I were you, I would wait and do one more test in 6 weeks. If it's good, use dbol in small doses. But that's just me, I'm not a doctor, and that could be terrible advice.

 

[2rude4u]

Assuming I do cycle and don't run orals, what effect are the ai's and serms going to have on my liver? Also, What can I run with test that is injectable? Since I am prone to gyno i will not be running deca or tren, so that leaves EQ (which I have done little research on and don't know a lot about at this moment) and mast. Primo is too expensive.

And Austinite, no I have not lost a bunch of weight lately. Apparently I have had a fatty liver for over a year now and didn't know. I assumed my high liver enzymes were from the letro (which I was on at the time of the blood test). My surgeon who did my gyno surgery figured it could be from creatine since I didn't tell him I ran any gear (we all know that doctors will blame everything on gear once they hear you have used it).

Anything ingested orally including AI's and serms are normally a first pass through the liver, which is what you want to avoid. What effect they will have is nearly impossible to say, when you have an already damaged liver. My suggestion which you can take or leave obviously is to correct the liver issue, before running a cycle.

 

[halfwit]

Controls blood sugar. I use it daily. Diabetics use it at higher doses but 500mg is safe for non-diabetics and I believe OP can benefit in his case.

I'd be careful with the metformin. While it can't make you hypoglycemic, some do suffer from hepatotoxicity due to a rare genetic trait. This is coming from someone that takes 2g of it daily. Great advice as usual though Austinite.

 

[DreDay187]

Anything ingested orally including AI's and serms are normally a first pass through the liver, which is what you want to avoid. What effect they will have is nearly impossible to say, when you have an already damaged liver. My suggestion which you can take or leave obviously is to correct the liver issue, before running a cycle.

^^^^ this. While not everything may be classified as "toxic", anything that goes through first pass break down (including orals, serms, even AI's) can have some sort of negative effect on the liver. While my liver numbers were normal on pre-cycle bloods, I've since added NAC and ALA supplementation for some of their other benefits. Look up 2Rude4u's thread on NAC and ALA and research the net a little bit. Not only can it help with your liver but some of the other anti-oxidant abilities would be an added benefit for health and training.

 

[Austinite]

I would get the problem under control first if I was you. No orals. Orals are harder on your liver than injection. If you must use, maybe go with test cyp at 500 mgs a week till you get problem under control. IMO

You can't. It's non alcohol fatty liver.

 

[TampaMD]

Honestly why are you itching so badly to get back on steroids? Your long term health should be more important to you. You are prone to gyno and had gyno surgery once already, not to mention your liver problems.

If I were you I would stay off gear entirely. If that's not something you're willing to do then stay away from all orals and use forma as your AI.

 

[Toshiro]

I have personally used this and it worked better than anything out there. This guys stuff is organic and POWERFUL designed for terminally ill people and it works! And no I don't own stock or have any affiliation with him. I just plain works.

https://www.herbdoc.com/index.php/Our_Products/5-Day-Detox-Programs

1. I'd recommend do so a bowel detox first to clean out any gunk.

2. Then do a liver - to help your issue.

3. Then last a bowel to clean out all the crap that your liver will dump into your intestines.

Also get his super food and drink that at least 2x a day. That crap will grow back a limb. LOL BUT ... it tastes like seaweed and what not. So kind of gross if you don't like that flavor.

I'd avoid any oral AAS, drinking, or anything that could even be the slightest liver toxic at this point.

 

[Austinite]

I think a lot of folks are misunderstanding OP's condition. There is no cure for Fatty Liver Disease. We have yet to advance to that stage.

 

[2rude4u]

I think a lot of folks are misunderstanding OP's condition. There is no cure for Fatty Liver Disease. We have yet to advance to that stage.

Correct, but although there isn't a cure, Fatty Liver Disease can be treated and ALT/AST levels brought down to the normal range. However, if it progresses to steatohepatitis or cirrhosis it becomes a much more serious matter with limited treatment options.

 

[Beck-Miester]

My wife takes Metformin for Insulin resistance (a precursor to diabetes), and works by increasing the body's sensitivity to insulin...I have read a few posts on here and other forums saying that its great stuff for cutting, but I know that she has to have liver baseline testing done regularly...supposedly because it is hard on the liver....

 

[Austinite]

Correct, but although there isn't a cure, Fatty Liver Disease can be treated and ALT/AST levels brought down to the normal range. However, if it progresses to steatohepatitis or cirrhosis it becomes a much more serious matter with limited treatment options.

Yes. I agree. We're on the same page.

 

[Moppy1]

I'm wondering if it is from all the ai's and serms i was taking 2 years ago to try and cure my gyno... i was taking letro for a month before i decided to just get the surgery. I don't know what ALS is. Do you mean AST?

A year ago: AST was 38 (range <35)
ALT was 56 (range 10-40)

Now: AST 29 (range <35)
ALT 56 (range 10-40)

My GGT is 44 (range 0-50)

I have also been taking LiverCare for a month now. Since taking LiverCare, i have noticed a tightness in my liver region when I inhale deep (which is a common symptom of fatty liver). Maybe it means that it is forcing my liver to heal? Or maybe it is just the placebo effect...

I'm in Canada and we don't have privatemdlabs. I got my "pre cycle" bloodwork by telling the doc at a walk in that I had gyno and wanted to keep my estrogen in check. I also told her i had an elevated ALT a year ago. She agreed to a full male hormone panel and to test my liver. Everything was fine except for ALT.

So assuming I do go with a test only cycle, what do I do about Ai's and serms on cycle? Just run some aromasin on cycle and leave the nolva for pct? I can avoid all orals except ais and serms...

These values are not that high nor anything to worry about. Your doctor is being way over cautious. The GGT is the best indicator, and its normal. Alt and Ast can be released from muscle as well, especialy after a hard workout, or trains of hard workouts.

My guess is that you are perfectly fine and dont need to change much of anything. Maybe some NAC, and maybe no alcohol, otherwise dont sweat it