Help me choose from these lean mass cycles

[beltane]

Seeking help building next cycle.

33 YO, 165#, 12% bf currently. 5th cycle in 6 years. Usually go from 160# to 182# in 12 weeks and slowly lose it over next 3 months which I usually take off.

Looking to be in peak shape for vacation last week of August 2005. Previous cycles include test, test/deca, win/deca/primo and stuff like that. Previous problem has always been not being ripped enough at end of cycle (usually 11% bf when finished. Here's the cycles I'm considering, the goal being 175# at 7-9% bf:

1. ***LEAN MASS KIT DELUXE (8 WEEKS)*** NEW! NOW WITH WINSTROL TABS!

30 Primobolan Depot 100mg/ml, 50 winstrol 50mg tabs, 100 bionabol 5mg...as above but with 50ml Winstrol ED and 10-15mg bionabol for the first 4 weeks... typical user can expect easy 15lb lean mass gains with next to 0 sides.

- thoughts on this kit as it seems to contain no post cycle therapy (pct) or anti-estrogen?

2. ***BULK/CUT KIT***

14 amps of ICN test 300mg/amp, 200 Bionabol 24 clomid 400 clenbuterol and 100 ephedrine for 380$ if youre moderately lean and you want to get big and ripped this is the cycle for you...first bulk and then cut...this is an 8 week mass kit with a cut kit follow the according instructions for use... i suggest pausing for 2 weeks after the mass cycle and then starting the cut cycle...experienced users can bulk and cut at the same time i dont suggest you try this unless you know what youre
doing.

- How long would the post-bulk, cuttting phase last here? When would one expect to be in peak physical appearance shape?

- again, thoughts on no PCT?

- would one need to use/add anti-estrogen w/ this cycle?

3. ***COMPETITOR MASS/CUT KIT*** NEW! NOW WITH WINSTROL!

30 amps of ICN test 300mg/amp, 300 bionabol 5mg, 20 anadrol 50mg, 50 winstrol 50mg tabs, 60 tamoxifen 10mg, 24 clomid 50mg, 400 clenbuterol 20mcg, 100 ephedrine 50mg, 60 T3...it will transform your body at any level.

- What would be dosages here and how long on bulk/cutting phases?

4. ***"GOOD SHIT" KIT 12 WEEK***

You get 36 amps of primobolan depot 100mg/amp...20 amps of winstrol depot 50mg/ml...4 vials of boldenone (equipoise)100mg/ml in 5ml vials...do the Winstrol (winny) from week 1 at one amp EOD and mix the primo and EQ like a summer coctail ...very nice steady gains. free 100 bionabol 5mg to spice it up...bionabol works EXTREMELY well with primo and EQ the gains are rock solid and the pumps are killer.

- Thoughts on no PCT?

+ I'm thinking of doing this cycle w/ a friend of mine who is 11% bf, lean and who has never done gear befor. He's looking for lean mass only; doesn't want to get overly bulked, otherwise i'd say test only for him. Are any of these recommended for first timer?

Finally, i have some deca and oral Winstrol (winny) left over from last cycle. Any place to add that in to above cycles for maximum advantage?

any help/critiques/thoughts/advice appreciated.

Thanks-

- Beltane

P.S. I value simplicity of a cycle greatly.

 

[StoneColdNTO]

First off........get out of those damn scamming internet sites that offer these package deals, what a f'ing joke they are. There are just so many things wrong with each of those cycles, I don't know where to start......lol

Secondly and perhaps lastly, considering your stats and given the fact that you take 3 months off after your cycles, I'd strongly suggest you find a different hobby, something like knitting maybe?.......sorry bro but reality hurts sometimes.

Oh yeah.....almost forgot; Do you even workout?....and that is a serious question.

 

[blackbeard]

ICN'S are not 300mg/ml they are 250mg/ml

personally i have a problem with using gear fro "vacation" to each their own..i dont lift or try to lift heavy things to look cool i do it for myself..if my goals should change and i want to get ripped or lean i would do it for me not to impress some skank on the beach who after a few drinks would prolly wind up with my meat in her ass anyway regrdless if i was 5% or 20% BF..

with everything going on these days, busts, health risks etc i dont see why you are using Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) and then taking 3 months off and losing everything you worked for..

I agree with SC gear is not for you..do it with some hard work naturally

 

[GymLift]

Seeking help building next cycle.

33 YO, 165#, 12% bf currently. 5th cycle in 6 years. Usually go from 160# to 182# in 12 weeks and slowly lose it over next 3 months which I usually take off.

I'm not even going to read past your first paragraph. If you are 165 lbs and 12% bf, then Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) cycles are totally inappropriate for you. And to think that you have done cycles in the past, only to then 'take off (from lifting?)' and 'lose it' (everything that you just added) only makes it that much more wrong.

 

[steveono]

OK MRANAK, I have to disagree wit you here. Being 165 has nothing to do with it, everyones goal is not to weigh 250lbs. (I know mines not) In my job I cant even weigh over 180, and I still run cycles. Some people wanna be strong, some wanna be big, and yes some wanna look good. I do agree however that this guy has no business running gear. If your losing everything you gain then you need to reconsider hobbies like SC said. Also you dont need to cycle so you can go to the beach, thats just gay. So IMO if you wanna weigh 180 then eat like a 180 lb guy and lay off the gear.

 

[bmass]

What a joke the competitor mass/cut kit : 300 d-bol,20 d-rol and 50 Winstrol (winny) tabs(50mg)and 30 icn test well after that you´ll be shopping for a new liver!

 

[beltane]

do a simple cycle. eat cleaner than you've ever eaten before. lots of low fat protein, low to moderate carbs...do some cardio .do test(any kind) at 500mg/week for 12 weeks with post cycle therapy (pct) 2- 3 weeks after your last shot.if you're using prop 3 days after your last shot. cheap, simple effective.

thanks for the only useful info posted in response to a real question.

what about anti-e w/ your cycle above.

Is test enan best? is there a way to choose between tests?

i am more interested in lean mass/getting and staying ripped than just bulking up. will a pure test cycle do that? i'd rather end at 175# and 7-9% bf than 185# and 11% bf. Everytime i take test i balloon up and put on 20# in like 2-3 weeks due to, i'm guessing, muscle memory.

the rest of you guys come across on this post like judgemenal, self righteous assholes (tho you've been really nice and provided great into to me personally in the past.)

i maintained 180# for 3 months after my last cycle w/ proper training and post cycle therapy (pct). On most of my other cycles I maintained a significant portion of gains for months or years. Then i did get a new hobby for a while, which is rock climbing, and i stopped lifting and let myself get skinny so i could climb better.

now i'm going to bulk up, purely for vanity and fun, and be buff for vacation. i know how to work out, i know how to eat, and i have no desire to be huge _all the time._ i'm comfortable at 160-165. AND i like to be upwards of 180-185# _sometimes._ AND 185# is not going to happen "naturally," tho it has _everytime_ I've been serious about gear and lifting. I have no desire to ever be over 185#.

Not everyone has your same fitness goals. This site isn't called bodybuildingology, it's called steroidology. please share info on cycles, not on the (perceived) inappropriateness of my fitness (or looks) goals.

Thanks guys-

- B

 

[beltane]

OK MRANAK, I have to disagree wit you here. Being 165 has nothing to do with it, everyones goal is not to weigh 250lbs. (I know mines not) In my job I cant even weigh over 180, and I still run cycles. Some people wanna be strong, some wanna be big, and yes some wanna look good. I do agree however that this guy has no business running gear. If your losing everything you gain then you need to reconsider hobbies like SC said. Also you dont need to cycle so you can go to the beach, thats just gay. So IMO if you wanna weigh 180 then eat like a 180 lb guy and lay off the gear.

yes, not everyone wants to weigh 250. thanks.

i don't always lose everything after i run gear, i just did this time b/c i got into rock-climbing.

and is there a medical reason why it's not ok to lose ALL gains after a cycle? it's my time and money, right?

it's not gay to juice for the beach-- it's vain. and it's my own right. and it's fun.

i've been in this body for 33 years and i've experimented w/ all types of diet and nutrition. this body is VERY tough to keep lean (under 12% bf) and there's no way i can hit 180# natural and _stay ripped_ even w/ the muscle memory of previous cycles.

Thanks for understanding not everyone wants to be 250#.

i'm now considering test only and will start researching anti-e and anti-hairloss options as those things concern me about a test only cycle.

finally, would test only be enhanced much by adding 50 mg oral Winstrol (winny) for 4-6 weeks during the 2nd half of a test cycle?

Thanks-

- B

 

[beltane]

Solid first cycle

Week 1 to 10: 400mg of EQ
OR
Week 1 to 10: 4-500mg of test
Week 13 to 15: Clomid Therapy*

- This looks like a good and cheap way to meat my goals. I notice there's no Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) in here tho and no anti-e. Wouldn't those be beneficial/necessary or the 10 week test cycle?

Thanks-

- B

 

[brooklynheight]

creatine and megamass 4000 should be the only thing u should be using at this point

 

[beltane]

creatine and megamass 4000 should be the only thing u should be using at this point

i've done it natural, and i've done several cycles. i haven't been able to accomplish naturally what i have on cycles. please stop suggesting natural as it doesn't interest me and if it did i'd be posting on a different board.

i have the time and money. i do one very moderate 12 week cycle every year or 2, so i'm not concerned too much about health issues.

i'm doing this for fun and to look good. just b/c that's not why you do it, doesn't mean you need to spout off answers like the above and hold back knowledge to legitimate (semi- anyway IMO) questions like those asked.

Let's save time: I'm GOING to do a moderate 12 week cycle. Considering everything I've written above, any help in choosing gear would be appreciated.

Thanks-

- B

 

[{R}a{G}e]

I have one question however. Do you plan on lifting after this cycle ends?

WHy in the hell would you want to do the work to get big and look good if you just decide to take 3 months off? 1)you are waisting your money to look good for summer only and 2) Your taking something that has the potential to cause you problems and basically not getting a whole lot out of it.

If i was doing what you were doing i would just run a test prop/eq cycle maybe and try that. I'm actually going to be running prop and eq this summer..

Just my thoughts, not ripping on you. Please explain.

 

[koops2121]

Eat more. Lift consistently.

 

[GymLift]

(to somebody else): thanks for the only useful info posted in response to a real question.

If you weren't so damn arrogant, you would realize that we are trying to relay some useful information to you: gear should be taken seriously. It isn't a damn OTC diet pill. We're talking about very unnatural doses of hormones and illegal at that.

...and there's no way i can hit 180# natural and _stay ripped_ even w/ the muscle memory of previous cycles.

Unless you have some rare genetic flaw, you are wrong.

and is there a medical reason why it's not ok to lose ALL gains after a cycle? it's my time and money, right?

This is about more than vanity, time and money. And apparently this is news to you, but taking steroids HAS MEDICAL IMPLICATIONS. Ask _any_ competent physician. Just because you have done cycles in the past without immediantely apparent consequences does not mean they aren't there.

 

[brooklynheight]

i have the time and money. written above, any help in choosing gear would be appreciated.

Thanks-

- B

now if we can convince you to have the dedication and love of the game
people would be more willing to give u advice

 

[no regrets]

lol.

 

[beltane]

I have one question however. Do you plan on lifting after this cycle ends?

WHy in the hell would you want to do the work to get big and look good if you just decide to take 3 months off? 1)you are waisting your money to look good for summer only and 2) Your taking something that has the potential to cause you problems and basically not getting a whole lot out of it.

If i was doing what you were doing i would just run a test prop/eq cycle maybe and try that. I'm actually going to be running prop and eq this summer..

Just my thoughts, not ripping on you. Please explain.

Thanks for more of what has proven to be a dearth of useful and/or non-judegemental info.

to answer your questions:

1) i want to work to get big and look good b/c i _sometimes_ enjoy working out and being stringent w/ re: to diet, and other times i don't. i also like looking big and buff when i know i will have a chance to show it off, i.e. vacation.

it's my money, i have plenty of it and i'm not concerned about wasting it. so that's a non-issue. if it cost you $.25 to "look good" for summer would you consider that a "waste" of $.25. Money is not an issue for me.

2) I'm not concerned about the "negative effects" of taking 500 mg./test for 12 weeks out of the year with proper post cycle therapy (pct). i've read a bunch and i don't consider that a big risk.

and i _am_ getting a whole lot out of it. i think it's fun to work out and get big for part of the year. i have no problem shrinking sometimes too. i look good at 160#, and i look good at 180#. i have fun vascillating between the 2. it's my body, my trip, please don't judge.

Sometimes I stay 175#-185# for a year straight, sometimes not. all depends on how i feel and what i want to build/maintain.

"If i was doing what you were doing i would just run a test prop/eq cycle maybe and try that. I'm actually going to be running prop and eq this summer..

Just my thoughts, not ripping on you. Please explain."

- Thanks for not judging. Can you give a good example of a 12+ week prop/eq cycle indluding post cycle therapy (pct)?

stop for a minute and imagine that you did't care about negative effects (only 1 cycle per year and we all die anyway) and you didn't care about the money. would you (almost everyone BUT this poster) be able to offer any decent advice here?

i can see doing a 12 week prop cycle, and i can work out post cycle therapy (pct) on my own from faq's. not sure how to add EQ into the mix. EQ = bolderone, no?

would you do Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) all along w/ prop/EQ or just at the end? and in what amounts? thanks for the input-

- B

p.s. i see i missed another legit question:

"I have one question however. Do you plan on lifting after this cycle ends?"

- some. i can lift 2x/week and maintain most of my mass. but i'm 80% of the year more interested in being lean than being big, so it's quite common that i take months off and do yoga, rock-climbing, running, etc. so i may lift, i may not. roids are a shortcut to getting big and ripped. i accept the potential negative consequences (we all die) tho i don't consider them that dire, and i choose to do a cycle every year or 2, strictly for vanity's sake.

 

[brooklynheight]

bodybuilding.com might be a better site for u

 

[StoneColdNTO]

bodybuilding.com might be a better site for u

OUCH !!

 

[beltane]

I won't comment on the above....people use for different reasons...
here's my suggestion..this is what I would do

Test enanthate or cyp at 500mg/week for 12 weeks
3 weeks after last shot start Nolvadex(check out other threads for dosages..I know what works for me)

eat VERY clean...all carbs should come from oats, brown rice and sweet potatoes. don't eat more than 200 grams of carbs per day. eat around 200+ grams of protein/day...stick to egg whites, chicken breasts and cottage cheese..oh, and tuna. throw in some cardio and you're on your way...watch the mirror not the scale. If you gain too much fat manipulate your carbs or increase cardio.

I wouldn't bother with anti-aromatase or estrogen blockers during cycle, really watch your salt intake and drink plenty of h20 and you'll be fine

Thanks.

No anti-aromatase or estrogen blockers during cycle?

What about HCG? Seems like everything I've read says to take Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) all along w/ a test cycle.

I have a bunch of oral Winstrol (winny) from a previous cycle. Worth considering adding in?

In the cycle you descrobe above, when would be optimum appearance window, i.e. during which week would you be the most ripped (still big, but no longer holding water.)

Thanks-

- B