2nd cycle test e + deca + winstrol + dbol

[Pinin4theFjords]

xposting from a wrong forum

going to add some more details too...


Hi,

my first cycle was long - 9 months I believe. It was beginner cycle and consisted mainly of Test E 500mg/wk with an AI, hcg and dropped some dbol for the last 6 weeks.

I gained a ton of strength but very little mass because I was on a cut for like 5 of those months. Started off probably like 89kg 25% bf. ended with 84kg 17%. By mass I just mean I did not see insane muscle growth but without the supplements I would look a lot worse at 84kg and lift a lot lot worse.

My PCT went so well. I stopped taking nolva and clomid after 6 weeks even though I felt I could stop after 4. My balls were working and lab test two weeks later showed good levels of T. 4 weeks later even better. Only thing that hasn't shot down much is perhaps my lipid profile. Borderline high cholesterol.

My T levels are stable and balls have grown lol.

My peak BP during the cycle was 155/110 I believe. The only sides I had during the cycle was acne and some sleepless nights. Right now bp is a cool 125/80 or something like that. Very normal. I also get minor gyno symptoms pretty quick if I stop AI during cycle.

Strength stalled post cycle and I have lost 3kg from my BP max and struggle to max my squat and DL but they have not regressed. I lost 1kg of bw but probably a bit more in terms of muscle and offset it with 1-2kg fat gain.

Current 1RM - 112kg BP, 161kg Squat, 155kg DL
Pre-cycle 1RM - 85kg BP, 90kg Squat, 90kg DL

I did not prepare my cycle in advance and winged it a lot in terms of nutrition and length. This time I want to do a shorter stacked cycle with preference for recomp.


This is what I have available:
Test E 500mg/wk ----- 20 weeks worth
Deca Durabolin 200mg/wk ---- 10 weeks worth (can get 5 more weeks worth but stuff is expensive)
Dbol - left over from last cycle probably 5-6 weeks @ 25mg/ed
Winstrol - 12 weeks worth at 50mg/eod
HCG - plenty available
HGH - I am having it checked for availability.


What I want to do after looking up vacuum cycles:
wk 1 - 10 Test E x 250mg/wk
wk 1 - 10 Deca x 200mg/wk
wk 1 - 10 winstrol x 50mg/eod
wk 1 - 10 HGH 2iu/ed
wk 1 - 10 recomp calories

I am 6'0" 83kg at 18% bf currently. Goal is to get lean and strong. hgh I am looking into for availability but there is a chance it might not be available. Every single compound except for dbol is pharma grade.

Have the usual PCT candidates and AI available. I want to start this in 5-6 months.

Can I bridge into a full on bulk keeping the same compounds? For instance, can I continue test and deca beyond week 10 and go up to wk 15 with addition of dbol?

Any advice on what I should do with the 2nd cycle? I basically still kind of look skinny with some tummy fat on an otherwise lean and lanky body.

I had a good recovery after a long cycle which was a big relief. Had to use a lot of Accutane and I am left with some acne scarring. The accutane did hinder performance in the ending weeks for sure.

My biggest struggle was diet. I had a really hard time putting on weight even with dbol and 3k+ calories. The bulking phase ended up looking a lot like recomp.



Finally - I need to figure out what I should do now because I have only till Friday to purchase these items from a pharma supplier before he will probably have it delivered to a hospital. The deca, t and winstrol are all compounds that I will not be able to get my hands on after friday.

 

[Teutonic]

Fjordboy welcome

U need to slow down. At 6 ft 185 ish pounds with a bit of a belly ur relying on drugs waaaaaaaay to much.

How old are you ? I m betting under 23 as ur approaching this as this as an impatient instant gratification teenager.

Test deca d bol winstrol for a 2 nd cycle with hgh as a potential add on is so bad an idea, with so many potential pitfalls I don t know if I m up to another steroid 101 lecture until u tell us how u eat drink train and if u live in Scananavia why you any belly at all.

Test x 500 a week for 12 weeks w maybe dbol for 4 weeks up front is all I can endorse based on ur limited knowledge and a 9 month cycle as a precedent. W T H was that all about ? Will u use an ai or serm and why did you choose which one.???


OK, I m done shredding you.
Deca--no. It needs to be run for 12-16 weeks and ur not ready as u have said nothing about about gyno either estro or prolactin based.
Winstrol-No. U said urself u got 18 points body fat. Winny does not burn fat. Period.
HGH- u said deca was expensive ? How much is your allowance ?

U have a lot of reading and learning to do before u start running 3,4,5 drug s with a belly my friend. I do not want to hurt you but to help you but the contradictions you display in financial matters and lack of a sensible approach to AAS use is considered abuse and is setting yourself up for potential major health concerns.

Please hang out and learn and don t stomp your foot and go away. I m trying to help but the truth usually stings a little when your very very young.

 

[Pinin4theFjords]

Fjordboy welcome

U need to slow down. At 6 ft 185 ish pounds with a bit of a belly ur relying on drugs waaaaaaaay to much.

How old are you ? I m betting under 23 as ur approaching this as this as an impatient instant gratification teenager.

wager your house then? .

i am 31.

Test deca d bol winstrol for a 2 nd cycle with hgh as a potential add on is so bad an idea, with so many potential pitfalls I don t know if I m up to another steroid 101 lecture until u tell us how u eat drink train and if u live in Scananavia why you any belly at all.

Test x 500 a week for 12 weeks w maybe dbol for 4 weeks up front is all I can endorse based on ur limited knowledge and a 9 month cycle as a precedent. W T H was that all about ? Will u use an ai or serm and why did you choose which one.???


OK, I m done shredding you.
Deca--no. It needs to be run for 12-16 weeks and ur not ready as u have said nothing about about gyno either estro or prolactin based.
Winstrol-No. U said urself u got 18 points body fat. Winny does not burn fat. Period.
HGH- u said deca was expensive ? How much is your allowance ?

U have a lot of reading and learning to do before u start running 3,4,5 drug s with a belly my friend. I do not want to hurt you but to help you but the contradictions you display in financial matters and lack of a sensible approach to AAS use is considered abuse and is setting yourself up for potential major health concerns.

Please hang out and learn and don t stomp your foot and go away. I m trying to help but the truth usually stings a little when your very very young.

hgh is only an option because it is available here but I had no plans to involve it in my cycle. Yes you are right, I did what was akin to reading some web articles and it sounded cool. You got me there because if I am willing to add compounds just because of a web search it does mean I am not prepared.

Like I said - my long cycle ended really well in terms of recovery.

My second one is supposed to be simple and short. I did not like UG dbol. I mentioned those compounds because they are available as pharmagrade.

I could simply do a Test + Deca for 16 weeks. I thought adding an oral like winny might help shred some fat on a recomp diet.

I train really well. My only problem is nutrition isn't the best.

I don't know what else to add. I am a novice when it comes to AAS and after a successful first cycle with full recovery, I want to do one more and I am trying to prepare well in advance. The reason I post this now is because I don't know what to pick up. I could just buy everything he got but that would be counter productive and ineffective cost-wise.

 

[Teutonic]

I stand corrected about ur age but stand on my stance that ur placing way to much emphasis on drug s and not diet and training but that s me.

Test 12 weeks
eat better
rest
Be patient mienen freund and you ll get there. I wish u well.

T

 

[Milton]

Diet and training said right by TooTuff!

 

[02PR0]

1st you need to strict with a diet plan like you said struggle with it --> imo if you dont follow a diet plan weather you are on ass or supplement you end up with nothing
2nd you want to lean mass ... why dbol and decca? --> two ways 1) you have to follow strict diet and cardio to gain lean mass what you mention in cycle...2) change your cycle add t3 and clen for few week to drop body fat.. and drop dbol and instead of decca i personally prefer tren or equipoise (for lean hard mass and vascularity after drop few percentage of body fat ) anavar if you like ....
hgh after 35 or 40
after doing with for 8 to 10 weeks.. then go mastron and winny for 4 to 6 week...

 

[bigben66]

I thought adding an oral like winny might help shred some fat on a recomp diet..

Time to get back to that drawing board OP.... If you think Winny sheds fat, you have a lot to learn!

Bodybuilders run winny in the last couple of weeks before a show to draw out WATER - it does nothing at all to burn fat.

Firstly, you need to sort out your diet, because no AAS on this planet will get you shredded unless your diet is bang on.

I strongly suggest you leave this cycle well alone and educate yourself how to construct a diet plan that will stand you in good stead for many years to come.

Count your blessings that you recovered well after that CRAZY 9 month cycle - learn your lesson - and do shit properly now!

 

[oldmusclemike]

Time to get back to that drawing board OP.... If you think Winny sheds fat, you have a lot to learn!

Bodybuilders run winny in the last couple of weeks before a show to draw out WATER - it does nothing at all to burn fat.
Firstly, you need to sort out your diet, because no AAS on this planet will get you shredded unless your diet is bang on.

I strongly suggest you leave this cycle well alone and educate yourself how to construct a diet plan that will stand you in good stead for many years to come.

Count your blessings that you recovered well after that CRAZY 9 month cycle - learn your lesson - and do shit properly now!

TooTuff was right on and bigbenn said it right about Winstrol. Basically Winstrol is used for Competition. Not always because a guy like me likes to get a more ripped and vascular look. This I like because I'm not big but can look bigger when leaner (sometimes). When I hear someone is going to plug it in I ask, Oh when is your show Ha! LOL.

But OP read and re-read the steroid profiles thoroughly more then once to understand them more.

Also I want to make a general statement and that is our bodies are not digital and so this plugging in a compound then switching to another then to another, crap it's the synergism of EVERYTHING that helps us and in most cases it take a bit longer then one cycle or just longer during a cycle.

Just because a cycle has ended with the gear doesn't mean it has ended in it's synergistic activities.

The diet and the training continues this synergism.

 

[Pinin4theFjords]

Thank you for all the replies guys. I was away for a week and couldnt reply. Maybe I was not clear with my OP and after reading all your posts I will say the following:

My training is not bad. I am not naturally athletic, have bad leverages for lifting (tall lanky ape arms even bigger legs) and a very busted ankle and knee (car accident) on same leg that I have to protect a lot.

My first 3 years of lifting were crap. Not much strength added and then 9 month cycle (mainly cutting with some bulking) and my lifts shot up.

One of the critiques of my training may well be too much focus on compounds and maxes instead of volume.

I know to lose fat you dont eat a compound and the issue is of energy balance. I thought that winny + test + deca + maintenance calories would result in an efficient way to lose fat and maintain strength.

You guys have to admit just like it is for a noobie to fitness and lifting, there are a lot cookie-cutter programs and information for noobies to AAS. Right? Sure I have been influenced with biased information. Its hard not to be.

My nutrition in last cycle was bad in terms of being bang on the right spectrum of healthy. It was not terribly bad, just a weekend warrior type diet which was not lacking in proper macros, just lacking in discipline to avoid junk food etc.

My body type is such that I look lean even with current bf%.

My main aim is actually to look IEL which I thought would happen much sooner after starting that 9 month cycle.

Yes I want to be stronger but my main concern was not being able to put on weight during that cycle. I was on a surplus for months at the end and added not much in terms of bw.

I will look up more info on diet but at this point I can only assume I messed up by not going bat shit crazy with calories and eating 5k+ daily.


Cliffs: lanky physique, more than decent at training, got a years worth of time left to really dedicate to lifting after which i can only do it as a hobby (mildly consistent but unstructured due to work and life responsibilities) and want to pull trigger on one more cycle to look IEL.

Should I have been (and for 2nd cycle)going crazy with calories? 1000+ surplus assuming I dont care if I put on some fat?

Before anyone asks specifics on macros and training let me just state that: I focus on movements and form instead of isolating muscles (though i put in work with accessories as well) and i feed myself good macro ratios. If anything, over-emphasis on protein in spite of believing that the fitness industry itself over-emphasises protein importance.

I dont want to be Arnie and in any case if looked into deeply enough you realize how stupid this conceptualization of protein macros into neat daily figures sounds even though the actual importance of protein for not only MPS but almost every cell-function cannot be overstated enough.

 

[Pinin4theFjords]

Same goes for this idea that x amounts of months on AAS = life long shut down of HPTA and that I was lucky to recover...

Its an underestimation of the adaptive nature of the body. Sure you can harm your physiology but its not like 12 weeks is some magic number after which your brain goes "damn the pituitary to pits of hell"

 

[juced_porkchop]

i would slow down man. your abusing right off the bat IMO. run the next cycle for 14weeks and only do 2 compounds IMO. add one as you do more cycles if need be, but take it slow and id not do more than 3 imo

 

[bigben66]

Sounds like even after all of the sound advice received above, you're going to go ahead and do your own thing.... which is sad, as your knowledge is clearly VERY limited!

You'll learn from your own mistakes, and I hate to break it to you, but when you mess around with hormones - and make mistakes - it can be life changing - and not in a good way.

 

[thnnummf47]

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[halfwit]

Same goes for this idea that x amounts of months on AAS = life long shut down of HPTA and that I was lucky to recover...

Its an underestimation of the adaptive nature of the body. Sure you can harm your physiology but its not like 12 weeks is some magic number after which your brain goes "damn the pituitary to pits of hell"

I crossed the road without looking both ways first. I think my mom was wrong and its clearly overrated because I didn't and I'm fine.

Grow up.

You may be 31 chronistically, but you're still acting like a kid. I'm going to go one step further than the guys and tell you something you're going to ignore anyway, but it's the truth...

Ready...?

You're NOT READY for AAS.

Period.

You have a lackadaisical approach to this, and guess what? You damn well COULD end up shut down for LIFE. All because you're too impatient to learn this shit the right way and want your results NOW.

News flash partner: ANYTHING worth doing in this life does not come easy or cheap. You won't find any short cuts here, and I find it offensive that a grown man would be so careless. I STRONGLY urge that you learn way more about diet and training before you continue down this path.

Sorry, maybe I'm misjudging you, but you really need to slow down and realize this isn't a race.

My .02c

 

[Teutonic]

And 12 weeks of gear will not drastically change u in a maintainable way unless u learn proper diet and all the rest . I have refrained from getting " cross as a frog in a sock " cuz no one s worth it anymore.

U may be fine correct. U may be on trt but ur 31 not 22 ; and arguing from an in-defensible mind set.....like ur 12. But get ur p c t straight at least.

 

[oldmusclemike]

I just dropped in because I saw I never logged out and I caught this ridiculous cycle and plan. Crap OP why do you come and post it. All that shit, even half of it is a waste. I already gave my two cents on the Winstrol and a few other things when I stood by TooTuff's post.

The young and ignorant, they come and tell us what they have planned and ask ?? We speak with facts, experience, and years and the they say" well you don't understand, I'm different. Ah haa

I like halfwit, what a nut...my mommy told me to look both ways....AH ha. Hell I made it across the street" But shit I found out my buddy who was right behind me got his brains splattered by the semi trailer.

Old mike here is beginning to learn to just laugh/......

 

[Pinin4theFjords]

I just dropped in because I saw I never logged out and I caught this ridiculous cycle and plan. Crap OP why do you come and post it. All that shit, even half of it is a waste. I already gave my two cents on the Winstrol and a few other things when I stood by TooTuff's post.

The young and ignorant, they come and tell us what they have planned and ask ?? We speak with facts, experience, and years and the they say" well you don't understand, I'm different. Ah haa

I like halfwit, what a nut...my mommy told me to look both ways....AH ha. Hell I made it across the street" But shit I found out my buddy who was right behind me got his brains splattered by the semi trailer.

Old mike here is beginning to learn to just laugh/......

This is so insane. Yes I equated Winny to fat loss but only because of performance enhancing abilities. RIP Apti & Ilya - just got banned for using stanozolololol

The reason I am posting here is to gain more knowledge. There is a lot of info on the web and hard to filter out the context you want.

My filter was - ran a big cycle, came out good and strong, not much time left to devote to proper structured training and want to nail down one more cycle after planning and waiting out a decent chunk of time. I am leaning toward:

Test E + Deca (16-20 wks) and Winny for last 4-6 weeks to boost performance while reducing cals.

I just wanted to know some thoughts on that plan without the usual - 'you dickhead poomplex wasteman dun know crap' about AAS. This is crap and your OP is crap.

No need to get personal man. I am a stranger looking for advice and thought these forums existed solely to hone in on the filter you want for the information you need.

After about a year I literally will not have time to dedicate to lifting more than 2-3x weekly and will only do it as a hobby. I gained a ton of strength (for a noob) on first cycle. My lanky body does not look IEL. I want thoughts on the above mentioned cycle.

I had an endocrinologist with me the whole time last cycle and will be present this time too. I do know a lot about how cells functions, HPTA axis and believe in the adaptive strength of the body. I don't want to be highfalutin here but you guys acting like post counts = credibility

I accept my mistake of last cycle but probably didn't let you know about having a doc with me to monitor. I ended up coming out of it well.

I do not accept this temporal length associated with cycles being so white and black. Prove me wrong.

Finally, I just wanted to know that if I do a short cycle of test + deca do I need to be eating +1000kcal surplus or more?

I get training + nutrition are hugely important but tbh the nutritional info thread is so unstructured and hard to see what is relevant to a particular individual.

Are 3000kcal too little for my stats - 83kg, 6 foot-ish, 17% bf or do I need to be on a sea food diet!!

 

[Pinin4theFjords]

You may be 31 chronistically

huh? I am only 31 because of the gregorian calendar. I believe in causality. Chrono can go f itself

 

[Gainjin260]

Finally, I just wanted to know that if I do a short cycle of test + deca do I need to be eating +1000kcal surplus or more?

I get training + nutrition are hugely important but tbh the nutritional info thread is so unstructured and hard to see what is relevant to a particular individual.

Are 3000kcal too little for my stats - 83kg, 6 foot-ish, 17% bf or do I need to be on a sea food diet!!

Easy to calculate exactly what macros you need. 3J's stickies on cycling and nutrition for noobs. At the top of this forum. Read up.

 

[Pinin4theFjords]

Easy to calculate exactly what macros you need. 3J's stickies on cycling and nutrition for noobs. At the top of this forum. Read up.

yea it was pretty basic stuff. i stopped reading at '6 meals a day'

i am not trolling man but that is a huge leak in his understanding of digestion and metabolism. TDEE is itself a conceptualization of energy demands per 24 hrs. Good for long run averages but that's it. It is only a model for estimation (a good one for sure) and yea you can post some study that says it is pretty accurate but if you dig deep in the methodology of such a study you'll find where it breaks down.

So now i guess i dont know what the reason for posting here was. I thought i'd find insight into these factors and not run-of-the-mill copy pasta top-down approach with a frank disposition for appeal to authority.

have a good life.

mods can nuke this thread and close my account. info on this forum has a motivated reasoning behind it and brimmed to the top with bias.