Hi all, I'm new at this. Need some advice please.

[BronxShadow]

Hi All,
Seems like you guys know your stuff... I need some help. I too went to the center and did my bloodwork, had some low results.
Was prescribed test cyp (1ml a week), HCG .25ml 2 days before and 1 day before the test shot. Also got somatropin, 1.5 iu a day (5on/2off) along with anastrozole (3x week) I been doing all as prescribed except for the somatropin, I doubled the dosage after 4 weeks. I don't see or feel anything. Any suggestions? Im training, eating right. How can I maximize with what I have? Any help/guidance is much appreciated.

Thanks,

36 yo
184lbs
24% bf

 

[Megatron28]

Can you post your blood work results from before your started TRT?

It can often take 8 weeks to start noticing TRT. Did your doc double your dosages or did you do that on your own?

What symptoms did you experience prior to going on TRT?

 

[BronxShadow]

Thanks Megatron, Heres the complete report.

Iron 127
Cortisol 18.2
DHEA-Sulfate 322.2
Estradiol 44.6
Heloglobin A1C 4.9
Homocysteine 12.7
IGF-1 199.0
LH 5.2
CRP, Cardio 1.4
PSA 1.520
FSH 1.4
Ferritin 120.5

WHITE BLOOD CELL 6.0
RED BLOOD CELL 5.00
HEMOGLOBIN 15.3
HEMATOCRIT 43.0
MCV 88
MCH 30.7
MCHC 35.0
RDW 13.5
PLATELET COUNT 226
MPV9.3
DIFFERENTIAL
GR% 65.8
LY% 21.7
MO% 9.9
EO% 1.7
BA% 0.9
GR# 3.9
LY# 1.3
MO# 0.6
EO# 0.1
BA# 0.1

Glucose 51
Bun 16
Creatinine Serum 1.2
Sodium 143
Potassium 4.6
Chloride 100
CO2 28
Calcium 9.5
Total protein 6.4
Albumin 4.4
Globulin 2.0
Bilirubin Total 0.5
Alkaline Phosphatase 58
ALT 24
AST 23
Albumin/Globulin Ratio 2.2
BUN/Creat Ratio 13.3
GFR estimated 73

Total Iron-Bind Capacity 251
% Iron Saturation 51

Coronary Risk
Triglycerides 94
Cholesterol 126
HDL Cholesterol 60
LDL Cholesterol 47
Chol/HDL ratio 2.1

Thyroid testing
T3, free 3.7
t4, free 1.14
TSH 3.460

Endocrine Evaluation
Testosterone total 481
Sex Hormone Bind Globulin 26
Testosterone Free 11.28

I dont understand the report too well, he explained it a bit, but wasn't worried about anything on the report, whats your thoughts?

Only symptoms, just wasn't in the mood for sex... My wife is a 10!! Very stressed with work, running 2 companies (self employed)

I doubled my dosage on my own, I checked in with a guy at the drys office, he said it would be fine.
When I did my blood work, i had breakfast, wasn't told I should fast, until after the work was done..

Im training, eating very well and since Im getting this therapy, wanted to bulk up on it.

Thanks in advance!!

 

[Alpin]

481 TT is not hypogonadal.
Whats the range for the Free Test?
Your TSH is terrible and thyroid hormones are not optimal.
Whats the range for Free T4?

 

[BronxShadow]

481 TT is not hypogonadal.
Whats the range for the Free Test?
Your TSH is terrible and thyroid hormones are not optimal.
Whats the range for Free T4?

According to the report, the range for free t4 is 0.9 - 1.7

Please explain the 481TT is not hypogonadal and how to I fix my TSH & thyroid hormones?

The range for TSH is 0.27 - 4.2

 

[Megatron28]

It helps to include reference ranges with your results. Every lab is different.

As Apollon said, you are not hypogonadal. Hypogonadism (low T) is when your Total Testosterone is under 300ng/dl. For comparison, the average for healthy males is come where around 600. You are not that far below 600. Given that your thyroid is not functioning optimally, you are stressed out and run down from work and probably not exercising or eating well, one would expect your TT to be on the low side. You are probably are not getting enough sleep either.

It looks like your doc did you a disservice by putting you on TRT. You do realize that YRT shuts down your natural testosterone production, right? And if you stay on TRT long enough, odds are that you will never be able to turn your Natty T back on again. You should have focused on your thyroid and lifestyle changes first.

Didn't you do any research before you let them put you on TRT?

 

[Alpin]

Bronx,

That Free T4 sucks too...
1.14 is 0.2 (whatever units you are measuring in) above the bottom. You want 1.5 and up. Free T3 is crap too.
Anything over 3.00 for TSH is crap.
Basically the higher your TSH the more your pituitary is screaming for your thyroid to work...
A panel of specialists recommend that the TSH range be changed to 0.3-3.00. The labs have not complied.
Get a "sensitive TSH" test done.
The streeses from modern life are bringing you down. Your T wasn't terrible.
You should of had a sleep study done too.
your Estradiol pre TRT stands out to me 44 pg/ml....
A tad high. You might have very well benefit with very low dose adex to bring that down to 25-30 pg/ml.
Your TT, Free T would have went up too.
Your highish Estradiol could of been messing up your thyroid pre TRT.
Your protocol no doubt from an anti aging clinic...
Reason I say that is no conventional doc/endo would treat you with T levels like that.
Good luck.

 

[Megatron28]

Bronx,

That Free T4 sucks too...
1.14 is 0.2 (whatever units you are measuring in) above the bottom. You want 1.5 and up. Free T3 is crap too.
Anything over 3.00 for TSH is crap.
Basically the higher your TSH the more your pituitary is screaming for your thyroid to work...
A panel of specialists recommend that the TSH range be changed to 0.3-3.00. The labs have not complied.
Get a "sensitive TSH" test done.
The streeses from modern life are bringing you down. Your T wasn't terrible.
You should of had a sleep study done too.
your Estradiol pre TRT stands out to me 44 pg/ml....
A tad high. You might have very well benefit with very low dose adex to bring that down to 25-30 pg/ml.
Your TT, Free T would have went up too.
Your highish Estradiol could of been messing up your thyroid pre TRT.
Your protocol no doubt from an anti aging clinic...
Reason I say that is no conventional doc/endo would treat you with T levels like that.
Good luck.

44pg/ml for estradiol is not high if he had the "regular" assay done. I would be cautious about recommending the use of an AI when lifestyle changes are probably all that is needed to boost his TT.

 

[Alpin]

44pg/ml for estradiol is not high if he had the "regular" assay done. I would be cautious about recommending the use of an AI when lifestyle changes are probably all that is needed to boost his TT.

There's tons of guys who use the Regular assay.
This crap thats been floating around of measuring sensitive Estradiol thats a buzz in the TRT community is totally unfounded.
One can dial in just as well with regular assay Estradiol.
Lifestyle changes eh, hard to say. "Lifestyle changes" did nothing for me even though I led a clean training and diet program. Etc.
Maybe....
too late now thats for sure. He's aromatizing differently now.

 

[Megatron28]

There's tons of guys who use the Regular assay.
This crap thats been floating around of measuring sensitive Estradiol thats a buzz in the TRT community is totally unfounded.
One can dial in just as well with regular assay Estradiol.
Lifestyle changes eh, hard to say. "Lifestyle changes" did nothing for me even though I led a clean training and diet program. Etc.
Maybe....
too late now thats for sure. He's aromatizing differently now.

Sure you can dial in with the regular estradiol assay, but we are not talking about that. You said his estradiol was too high. Given that OP probably had the regular assay done, it most likely is not too high and does not require the use of an AI

Just because you couldn't make life style changes doesn't mean OP cannot. You had sleep apnea but went on TRT for a long time before trying to make said life style changes. Before treating your sleep apnea. You ran a cycle prior to going on TRT and probably did a poor PCT. You ran adex-monotherapy for a long time. You are hypothyroid and went untreated. You yourself have stated that you had the world's shittiest doctors that led you astray every step of the way. My point being, that your personal experience has no relevance for the OP or most guys considering TRT.

 

[Alpin]

Sure you dial in with the regular estradiol assay, but we are not talking about that. You said his estradiol was too high. Given that OP probably had the regularnassay done, it most likely is not too high and does not require the use of an AI

Just because you couldn't make life still changes doesn't mean OP cannot. You had sleep apnea but went on TRT for a long time before trying to make said life style changes. You ran a cycle prior to going on TRT. You ran adex-monotherapy for a long time. You are hypothyroid and went untreated. Had yourself have stated that you had the world's ahittiest doctors that led you astray. My point being, that your personal experience has no relevance for the OP or most guys considering TRT.

I couldn't make lifestyle changes how?
I made tremendous lifestyle changes.
when did hypothyroidism pop up for me?
The sleep apnea was undiagnosed for a long time...
I was on TRT when it was diagnosed...
what was I suppose to do?
reverse father time?

Did you even run a restart before giving up to the needle?
You were sec. Hypo if I'm correct and failed or neglected to make your own "lifestyle changes"....
Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house yourself.
You got some nerve.

 

[Megatron28]

I couldn't make lifestyle changes how?
when did hypothyroidism pop up for me?
The sleep apnea was undiagnosed for a long time...
I was on TRT when it was diagnosed...
what was I suppose to do?
reverse father time?
You got some nerve.

You are suppose to recognize that not all of your personal experience is 100% applicable to every person that comes here. You often fail to do this and end up giving poor, if not dangerous, advice. Put yourself in their shoes before sharing your own personal experience and telling guys that what happened to you is going to happen to them. Put some context and nuance into your posts. Think about what you are telling guys.

 

[Megatron28]

Apollon's hypothyroidism thread.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/t...e-here-trt-thyroid-replacement-hormone-s.html

 

[Alpin]

Apollon's hypothyroidism thread.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/t...e-here-trt-thyroid-replacement-hormone-s.html

Subsequent TSH tests were 2.12 etc...
many were 3 plus but labs here dont consider that hypo nor the docs that read them.

 

[Alpin]

I'm giving dangerous advice now...
this is getting real...

 

[Alpin]

Hi All,
Seems like you guys know your stuff... I need some help. I too went to the center and did my bloodwork, had some low results.
Was prescribed test cyp (1ml a week), HCG .25ml 2 days before and 1 day before the test shot. Also got somatropin, 1.5 iu a day (5on/2off) along with anastrozole (3x week) I been doing all as prescribed except for the somatropin, I doubled the dosage after 4 weeks. I don't see or feel anything. Any suggestions? Im training, eating right. How can I maximize with what I have? Any help/guidance is much appreciated.

Thanks,

36 yo
184lbs
24% bf

You should really be holding off on the a.i. when first hoping on TRT. You may have lowered your Estradiol too much since you say you dose EOD. The body atomatizes differently when on TRT (Exogenous hormones).You can actually reduce the amount of a.i. (adex) you need by splitting up your Test doses and Taking the HCG split up in E3D doses as well.
It's in my opinion that you will find a much harder time to fully dial in to your protocol with the use of HCG and a.i's from the get go. It wouldn't hurt to split up the Test in E3D or twice weekly shots then run labs on that after a month and see where your hormones are....
then you can include low dose adex (if needed).
Keep in mind the best TRT protocols are ones where you don't need an a.i. or at the very least take the most minimal amount....

 

[BronxShadow]

Hey Guys, thanks for your feedback here... I figured all labs have the same ranges, heres the ranges.

Iron 127 (40-190)
Cortisol 18.2 (6.2-19.4)
DHEA-Sulfate 322.2 (88.9-427.0)
Estradiol 44.6 (7.6-42.6) --- this is higher then normal
Heloglobin A1C 4.9 (<5.7)
Homocysteine 12.7 (4.5-15.0)
IGF-1 199.0 (124-181) this is higher then normal
LH 5.2 (1.7-8.6)
CRP, Cardio 1.4 (1.0-3.0 medium risk)
PSA 1.520 (0.0-4.0)
FSH 1.4 (1.5-12.4) this is lower then normal
Ferritin 120.5 (30-400)

Glucose 51 (65-100) lower then normal
Bun 16 (6-20)
Creatinine Serum 1.2 (0.5-1.2)
Sodium 143 (133-145)
Potassium 4.6 (3.3-5.1)
Chloride 100 (96-108)
CO2 28 (96-108)
Calcium 9.5 (8.5-10.5)
Total protein 6.4 (6.4-8.3)
Albumin 4.4 (3.2-4.8)
Globulin 2.0 (2.1-3.6) lower then normal
Bilirubin Total 0.5 (0.0-1.0)
Alkaline Phosphatase 58 (35-129)
ALT 24 (<42)
AST 23 (<39)
Albumin/Globulin Ratio 2.2 (0.8-2.0) Higher then normal
BUN/Creat Ratio 13.3 (7.3-21.7)
GFR estimated 73

Total Iron-Bind Capacity 251 (250-400)
% Iron Saturation 51 (15-50) Higer then normal

Coronary Risk
Triglycerides 94 (<150)
Cholesterol 126 (<200)
HDL Cholesterol 60 (>40)
LDL Cholesterol 47 (<100)
Chol/HDL ratio 2.1 (<5.0)

Thyroid testing
T3, free 3.7 (1.8-4.6)
t4, free 1.14 (0.9-1.7)
TSH 3.460 (0.27-4.2)

Testosterone total 481 (280-1100)
Sex Hormone Bind Globulin 26 (10-80)
Testosterone Free 11.28 (1.9-27)

I was prescribed 1 ML test per week
.25ml HCG 2 days before and 1 day before the test
1.5 IU somatropin 5 days on / 2 days off
and the AI every other day.


Im going to slow down the AI, and get my labs done again next month. When I first did my labs, I was coming back from a 2 month trip for business where I wasn't sleeping or eating well. I travel for business. So now Im back home, exercising and eating proper. I do want to get into better shape, Im sleeping well, eating right, training and doing cardio. I want to maximize the meds I have to get the most out of them. I bumped the HGH to 3iu a day, 5on 2off.

Id like to double the test shot too, should I change the HCG amount since Im changing the test amount?

So these are my irregulars, what does it mean, and how can I get them where they should be?
Is anything that Im taking going to affect these numbers?


Estradiol 44.6 (7.6-42.6) higher then normal
IGF-1 199.0 (124-181) higher then normal
CRP, Cardio 1.4 (1.0-3.0 medium risk)
FSH 1.4 (1.5-12.4) this is lower then normal
Glucose 51 (65-100) lower then normal
Globulin 2.0 (2.1-3.6) lower then normal
% Iron Saturation 51 (15-50) Higer then normal


I appreciate you guys taking the time to go through this and your advice/opinions...

 

[Alpin]

Bronx

What are you doing?
May I ask?
Whats the point of posting blood labs from when you were functioning on endogenous T ?
You have been on TRT over a month.
These results as far as hormones (and probably CBC) no longer exist. You are shut down RIGHT NOW relying on exogenous Test.

 

[BronxShadow]

These are the labs I did prior to getting my prescriptions. The doc told me this would help my moods and my libido, and a friend told me this would help boost me with my workouts.. Again, I dont know much about it, never did anything like this before.. Did not do much research prior to taking the meds, trusted the Dr with his recommendations.. I figured while I'm on it, I would use the benefit of the meds to bulk up and get in better shape. What do you mean Im shut down now? Please understand, Im not familiar with this, but liked the sounds of feeling better and getting in better shape.

 

[Megatron28]

These are the labs I did prior to getting my prescriptions. The doc told me this would help my moods and my libido, and a friend told me this would help boost me with my workouts.. Again, I dont know much about it, never did anything like this before.. Did not do much research prior to taking the meds, trusted the Dr with his recommendations.. I figured while I'm on it, I would use the benefit of the meds to bulk up and get in better shape. What do you mean Im shut down now? Please understand, Im not familiar with this, but liked the sounds of feeling better and getting in better shape.

When you take exogenous testosterone (inject it) your body stops making its own testosterone since it senses that you already have enough. Over time, your testicles shrink since they are not cranking out any testosterone. If you stay suppressed like this long enough it becomes very difficult, if not inpossible, to get your body to produce its own testosterone again. That is why one should not go on TRT unless he is already hypogonadal (Low T). You were not hypogonadal, but if you keep doing what you are doing, you will be soon enough. Think carefully about this as it can have a permanent impact. You may have to rely on injections for the rest of your life. For many of us, TRT is a life saver -- but most of us would do love to not be hypogonadal.