Hi all, I'm new at this. Need some advice please.

[BronxShadow]

Mega,
I had no ide it would stop producing on its own. Once it stops, theres no way to kick it back on? Thats not good to hear.

 

[Alpin]

This is bad.

I don't know who put the idea in your head of visiting the clinic you did.
But none the less you went and got suckered in.
You don't have a clue of what you are playing with.
Let me be clear. ..
a conventional endocrinologist would not have prescribed to you. Whats done is done now.
Personally, I would have like to see how things may have played out by incorporating lifestyle changes and then retesting after 6 months and see where you go from there.
Your PSA is a tad close to mid range...
no doubt from your highish estradiol.

The way you should have went about things was:

-get thyroid in order
-sleep study
-exercise, nutrition, supplementation of essential nutrients and that sort.

 

[Alpin]

Your glucose was low on your blood work.
Do you have hypoglycemia?
Make sure u are eating better on TRT than you were before.
some people see changes to their blood glucose on TRT

 

[Megatron28]

Mega,
I had no ide it would stop producing on its own. Once it stops, theres no way to kick it back on? Thats not good to hear.

It isn't stopping on its own in your case. You are choosing to shut it down by taking exogenous testosterone. But yes, in some guys their testicles or pituitary gland stop working properly. There are many possible causes of this.

Guys run 10 week cycles all the time at higher doses than you and manage to get their testosterone production turned back on. Not all of them of course, but the majority do. They run what is known as PCT (post cycle therapy). But the longer you stay on testosterone, the harder it is to get your natty T turned back on.

I would really encourage you to sit down and start doing a lot of reading in the TRT forum. And then sit down and have a long diacussion with your doctor.

 

[Alpin]

Guys run 10 week cycles all the time at higher doses than you and manage to get their testosterone production turned back on. Not all of them of course, but the majority do. They run what is known as PCT (post cycle therapy).

Countless guys have PERMANENTLY messed up their pulsatile pituitaty output(LH/FSH) that was functioning optimally before ever touching AAS. The HPTA is a delicate system.
Even one cycle can do a number on the pituitary/Testicular axis, which it may or may not ever recover from.
PCT meds do jumpstart things to move along but once those meds are stopped and there is a drop in hormones again. Things just never seem to be right.
No one ever recovers 100% after doing cycles...
some recover decent function, many are messed up for life.

 

[Megatron28]

Countless guys have PERMANENTLY messed up their pulsatile pituitaty output(LH/FSH) that was functioning optimally before ever touching AAS. The HPTA is a delicate system.
Even one cycle can do a number on the pituitary/Testicular axis, which it may or may not ever recover from.
PCT meds do jumpstart things to move along but once those meds are stopped and there is a drop in hormones again. Things just never seem to be right.
No one ever recovers 100% after doing cycles...
some recover decent function, many are messed up for life.

I stated that some guys do not recover. But many do with a properly run cycle and PCT. You simply have to go to the Anabolic Forum to see this. But like I said, there are no guarantees.

Do you feel I have given the OP bad advice Apollon? I did not want him to be led to think that his actions have absolutely resulted in his Natty T being shut down for the rest of his life. Odds are that he can get it turned back on of he stops and runs PCT now.

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

No one ever recovers 100% after doing cycle.

Your evidence for this is what exactly?

No offence man, but with your experience you should know by now that there are no absolutes when it comes to physiological changes, it always varies from person to person.
So to say that no one EVER fully recovers would be wrong.

 

[Alpin]

I stated that some guys do not recover. But many do with a properly run cycle and PCT. You simply have to go to the Anabolic Forum to see this. But like I said, there are no guarantees.

Do you feel I have given the OP bad advice Apollon? I did not want him to be led to think that his actions have absolutely resulted in his Natty T being shut down for the rest of his life. Odds are that he can get it turned back on of he stops and runs PCT now.

I don't feel you gave bad advice.
I just wanted to get the point across to all that PCT meds will get things going. But once those are stopped T will not drop to where a guys natural production was prior to using. It takes time and maybe a few PCTs to get things going optimally again.
No guarantees. Correct.

 

[Alpin]

Your evidence for this is what exactly?

No offence man, but with your experience you should know by now that there are no absolutes when it comes to physiological changes, it always varies from person to person.
So to say that no one EVER fully recovers would be wrong.

The vast majority may recover up to 75-80% of their T levels pre AAS. The younger they start the worse it is.

 

[Alpin]

I stated that some guys do not recover. But many do with a properly run cycle and PCT. You simply have to go to the Anabolic Forum to see this. But like I said, there are no guarantees.

Do you feel I have given the OP bad advice Apollon? I did not want him to be led to think that his actions have absolutely resulted in his Natty T being shut down for the rest of his life. Odds are that he can get it turned back on of he stops and runs PCT now.

In this case scenario....
He will very likely recover as it is still early.

 

[Megatron28]

The vast majority may recover up to 75-80% of their T levels pre AAS. The younger they start the worse it is.

What are you basing those percentages on? Do you have studies on this? Anecdotal evidence in the AAS forum does not support this. Are you confusing hwalthy guys who run a short cycle with hypogonadal men who try a restart? Those are two very different situations.

 

[Alpin]

What are you basing those percentages on? Do you have studies on this? Anecdotal evidence in the AAS forum does not support this. Are you confusing hwalthy guys who run a short cycle with hypogonadal men who try a restart? Those are two very different situations.

Healthy guys who run cycles usually develop hypogonadism.
so they don't remain "healthy" for long.

 

[Alpin]

All I'm saying is theres been plenty of guys 700ng/dl + that once they messed with AAS....
They only recovered to 600 ng/dl TT.

Look at guys like JT19 and countless others.
clomid restarts and still not optimal T or LH/FSH with over a year plus of not using.

 

[Megatron28]

Healthy guys who run cycles usually develop hypogonadism.
so they don't remain "healthy" for long.

We are taking about a guy who has been on TRT for a month. And I compared him to someone who is healthy and runs one proper cycle with proper PCT. I was not comparing him to someone who runs three cycles a year for 10 years or someone who does B&C for 4 years straight.

 

[Alpin]

We are taking about a guy who has been on TRT for a month. And I compared him to someone who is healthy and runs one proper cycle with proper PCT. I was not comparing him to someone who runs three cycles a year for 10 years or someone who does B&C for 4 years straight.

Correct!


Just keep in mind that even 1 cycle can mess up optimal HPTA function. I'm talking optimal.
Not some 450-500 ng/dl TT bounce back after a cycle some people call a "recovery" when they are actually no where near the levels they were pre AAS. People misuse the word recovery when talking about AAS. Getting back T levels at borderline hypogonadal Levels is not "recovery". It's actually just steps baby steps away from TRT.

 

[Alpin]

I'm a firm believer that every cycle one runs takes a bit out of them putting the user closer to TRT with every use.
10 weeks is nothing. Stuff kicks in after 4 months.
10 week cycles are usually run by inexperienced people.
Takes a longer time than 10 weeks to build a decent amount of muscle mass.

 

[Megatron28]

Correct!


Just keep in mind that even 1 cycle can mess up optimal HPTA function. I'm talking optimal.
Not some 450-500 ng/dl TT bounce back after a cycle some people call a "recovery" when they are actually no where near the levels they were pre AAS. People misuse the word recovery when talking about AAS. Getting back T levels at borderline hypogonadal Levels is not "recovery". It's actually just steps baby steps away from TRT.

I already stated that clearly that one cycle can shut you down forever. I don't understand why you are attacking me for something that I clearly stated in my post.

 

[Megatron28]

I'm a firm believer that every cycle one runs takes a bit out of them putting the user closer to TRT with every use.
10 weeks is nothing. Stuff kicks in after 4 months.
10 week cycles are usually run by inexperienced people.
Takes a longer time than 10 weeks to build a decent amount of muscle mass.

A bit or 25%?

Most first cycles are 10-12 weeks. And depending on the ester used, testosterone and other compounds can kick in a whole lot faster than 4 months.

 

[Alpin]

I already stated that clearly that one cycle can shut you down forever. I don't understand why you are attacking me for something that I clearly stated in my post.

No not attacking. Not at all.
Please don't take it that way.
All I'm saying is 1 cycle can take 200+ ng/dl (ball park figure) off your PRE AAS levels.
Meaning you may recover some with PCT and time off but may nevet get your total peak Testosterone back....
(the way it was before messing with exogenous hormones.)

 

[Alpin]

A bit or 25%?

Most first cycles are 10-12 weeks. And depending on the ester used, testosterone and other compounds can kick in a whole lot faster than 4 months.

It will kick in faster than 4 months but the whole point of cycling is to get the maximum benefit off the drug and to run no less than 12 weeks. Past week 8 is when the drug starts to shine.
but we are getting way off topic here.