High Estrogen Level before my Dbol/ Test/ Deca Cycle.... need some input please

[_Romeo_]

thanks for taking the time folks,

got my blood work today and all the numbers seem pretty good... only thing is my estrogen level came back a little high.
Estrogen Total: 221.8 pg/mL [60-190]
Testos Free 78.2 pg/mL [35-155]
Testos Tot F&T 385 ng/dL [250-1100]

I got the blood work done a week ago (which marks 6 months after my last cycle of Test E / tren E 350/600 a week ).

In 2 weeks, i am starting my Dbol/Test E / Deca for 14 weeks.

Anything alarming as far as the Estrogen level? should i run anything prior to my upcoming cycle ?

greatly appreciate the input.

stats: 35yrs, 5'7, 12%BF, 190pouds, 5 cycles already, lifting 10+ years.

 

[.Vision.]

Now this is what im talking about, asking advice about a cycle, at the same time providing bloodwork.. kudos to you brother!

I would suggest some Adex at 1mgs EOD, get bloods again in about 5 weeks... I would get some tamox on hand to target/treat gyno on the spot (if needed), the adex will take a bit to combat estro levels..

You could try AROMASIN at (depending on the brand 12.5 EOD).. some brands are 20mgs, so that will be 10mgs EOD or ever E4D.. the half life is longer then people thing ( or its effects)

You T was rather low, to be honest, but your Free T wasn't to shabby considering.. so Im sure you felt ok..

 

[halfwit]

Total ESTROGEN is meaningless. It's ESTRADIOL you need to keep tabs on, as it's the potent form of estrogen. Just make sure you have your AI dialed in and get bloods done a few weeks (4-6) into your cycle to make sure everything is good to go.

 

[Teutonic]

How re freshingly started, explained and confirmed.

Teutonic efficiency. lol

 

[Megatron28]

It isn't your total estrogen that you should be worried about. If you had your blood work drawn first thing in the morning, you are getting really close to Hypogonadal territory. One or two more cycles might push you over the edge onto TRT.

 

[Hypnotix]

I would go get the hormone panel done that checks Estradiol (Sensitive Assay). It will need to be cleared up before cycle start for sure.

As Mega said, you're low T (he says close to hypo territory, but I know how I felt at that point.. and it's not cool). I would be upset with those numbers as a natty... Who am I kidding? I was upset with those numbers as a natty. 405TT before first cycle, 369 TT 3 months after PCT. (same ref. ranges as you)

If you're going to carry out the cycle before addressing the low TT, I would order 3-5 vials of Test along with it to handle HRT yourself after (if needed).. or start researching doctors in your area who handle HRT. (smartest and most legal choice)

If you tanked your numbers though (anis root, alcohol, and little sleep before testing).. and went to a quality clinic in your area for bloods. You'd likely have lower numbers than you do now, be prescribed Test/HCG/Adex and get things rolling immediately. You're low enough and at a pretty good age to start investigating HRT anyhow.. it wouldn't be morally wrong to tank your numbers in my opinion. Say you were 500-600.. than I may say otherwise.. but, tis not the case.

Weigh out the options yourself. But, for what it's worth, in my opinion, investigating ways to recover my hormone levels naturally, or investigating TRT would be first priorities. Cycle later.. you have many years ahead still to accomplish your goals in that area. It would likely make your efforts more efficient anyway. Seeing as how you're low T and cycle on and off.. you likely drop quite a bit of your lean mass off between runs. HRT would help dramatically with that.

Hope I've helped, and good luck!

 

[_Romeo_]

I would go get the hormone panel done that checks Estradiol (Sensitive Assay). It will need to be cleared up before cycle start for sure.

As Mega said, you're low T (he says close to hypo territory, but I know how I felt at that point.. and it's not cool). I would be upset with those numbers as a natty... Who am I kidding? I was upset with those numbers as a natty. 405TT before first cycle, 369 TT 3 months after PCT. (same ref. ranges as you)

If you're going to carry out the cycle before addressing the low TT, I would order 3-5 vials of Test along with it to handle HRT yourself after (if needed).. or start researching doctors in your area who handle HRT. (smartest and most legal choice)

If you tanked your numbers though (anis root, alcohol, and little sleep before testing).. and went to a quality clinic in your area for bloods. You'd likely have lower numbers than you do now, be prescribed Test/HCG/Adex and get things rolling immediately. You're low enough and at a pretty good age to start investigating HRT anyhow.. it wouldn't be morally wrong to tank your numbers in my opinion. Say you were 500-600.. than I may say otherwise.. but, tis not the case.

Weigh out the options yourself. But, for what it's worth, in my opinion, investigating ways to recover my hormone levels naturally, or investigating TRT would be first priorities. Cycle later.. you have many years ahead still to accomplish your goals in that area. It would likely make your efforts more efficient anyway. Seeing as how you're low T and cycle on and off.. you likely drop quite a bit of your lean mass off between runs. HRT would help dramatically with that.

Hope I've helped, and good luck!

greatly appreciate the advice... i will look into checking Estradiol numbers.

As far at the low T numbers... I remember doing bloodwork at some point in my late 20's and getting the T numbers sort of low. I have also done bloods pre & post each cycle and my T numbers were close to that number i just got ... maybe at some point it recorded 411 once after my 2nd cycle or so. But the T numbers were low even before cycling. Every time i addressed the subject with my doctor, he'd assure me that the numbers are normal and what matters is overall feeling .... and i feel fine. Nothing out of the ordinary. Been lifting for a long time before cycling and i struggled to add mass..i was on the chubby side, but not much muscle mass.

Now that you are telling me that i am close to considering TRT! You go me even more worried. If i were to go see my doctor, he's probably going to tell me the same thing again... "if you FEEL ok then don't worry about it."

 

[Hypnotix]

greatly appreciate the advice... i will look into checking Estradiol numbers.

As far at the low T numbers... I remember doing bloodwork at some point in my late 20's and getting the T numbers sort of low. I have also done bloods pre & post each cycle and my T numbers were close to that number i just got ... maybe at some point it recorded 411 once after my 2nd cycle or so. But the T numbers were low even before cycling. Every time i addressed the subject with my doctor, he'd assure me that the numbers are normal and what matters is overall feeling .... and i feel fine. Nothing out of the ordinary. Been lifting for a long time before cycling and i struggled to add mass..i was on the chubby side, but not much muscle mass.

Now that you are telling me that i am close to considering TRT! You go me even more worried. If i were to go see my doctor, he's probably going to tell me the same thing again... "if you FEEL ok then don't worry about it."

If you can't sustain muscle mass without AAS, you may have a low ceiling of potential caused by your low hormone levels, OR you've grown too far beyond your genetic potential. (Potential is relative to hormone levels, and other factors though too..).

You may have a max potential of 210lbs 12% BF with 1100 TT. But only 170lbs 12% BF with 380 TT.

Above examples are fake obviously.. but will give you a general idea of the difference I mean with Potential.. and how it could change with different variables. Your cycling on and off is what's likely keeping you in good shape. Little boost here and there, brings your size up, and you then slowly wittle down from end of PCT to next cycle. Then a boost again. ETC.

If you're not comfortable talking to your doctor about this or he's not qualified to help you (which is what it seems like).. find a doctor who you are, and who is! It's important that you have a doctor who isn't stagnant, who is up to date with his information, and treatment protocols. If you think he's generally okay otherwise.. hang on to him, whatever, just approach different clinics, or endocrinologists with your concerns, and what protocols you've found to work best for people in regards to HRT.

Feeling okay is good. There are other factors to consider though, and if you're really interested in the benefits related to TRT/HRT, there are some amazing guys in the Replacement Therapy section here on the forum, along with some great stickies in there to help you along as well.

When I did 500mg Test for 12 weeks, I felt like a normal person again, then progressed into super normal person
500mg had me at 2200 Trough TT.

When I did 200-250mg Test for 24 weeks, I felt like a normal person again.
250mg had me at 1375 Peak TT.

Just to give you an idea of how I experienced similar effects in different time frames at different doses and such.

Again, check out that TRT section man.. it's got a lot of great people willing to help you. Tons of information for you to find as well! Don't settle for a schmuck, be your own boss and tell them what you need if you have to.

Good luck!

 

[Megatron28]

greatly appreciate the advice... i will look into checking Estradiol numbers.

As far at the low T numbers... I remember doing bloodwork at some point in my late 20's and getting the T numbers sort of low. I have also done bloods pre & post each cycle and my T numbers were close to that number i just got ... maybe at some point it recorded 411 once after my 2nd cycle or so. But the T numbers were low even before cycling. Every time i addressed the subject with my doctor, he'd assure me that the numbers are normal and what matters is overall feeling .... and i feel fine. Nothing out of the ordinary. Been lifting for a long time before cycling and i struggled to add mass..i was on the chubby side, but not much muscle mass.

Now that you are telling me that i am close to considering TRT! You go me even more worried. If i were to go see my doctor, he's probably going to tell me the same thing again... "if you FEEL ok then don't worry about it."

Read the sticky threads in the TRT section. Hypogonadism is defined when one's TT is below 300ng/dl. Borderline Hypogonadism is defined when. TT is below 350ng/dl coupled with Low Free T. It is all about how you feel. There are serious long-term health consequences to being Hypogonadal. An analogy is blood pressure. You can feel perfectly fine with high BP; but over time it will kill you.

Here is a chart for average Natty TT levels by age.

 

[.Vision.]

thanks for taking the time folks,

got my blood work today and all the numbers seem pretty good... only thing is my estrogen level came back a little high.
Estrogen Total: 221.8 pg/mL [60-190]
Testos Free 78.2 pg/mL [35-155]
Testos Tot F&T 385 ng/dL [250-1100]

I got the blood work done a week ago (which marks 6 months after my last cycle of Test E / tren E 350/600 a week ).

In 2 weeks, i am starting my Dbol/Test E / Deca for 14 weeks.

Anything alarming as far as the Estrogen level? should i run anything prior to my upcoming cycle ?

greatly appreciate the input.

stats: 35yrs, 5'7, 12%BF, 190pouds, 5 cycles already, lifting 10+ years.

Im rather curious, what type of testing method was utilized, was it a ECLIA or a LC/MS/MS? Can you post a pic of your actually test?

Like I said prior your test levels are on the lower end (but within standard range), at the same time your free test really isn't that bad, and thats the real number that matters believe it or not..Your freeT is what's the real actual bioactive test making things happen when it concerns its intended course of action and overall molecular/cellular functions,more avail for cell receptor sites..

With your total estro being that high (there's greater importance to total, more then people really understand,however an actual estradiol reading provides a better blue print of where your at,but it's not entirely pivotal when we can clearly see serum levels at the moment), with this said estrogen saturates testosterone receptors in the hypothalamus region of the brain. The saturated hypothalamus then stops sending out a hormone to the pituitary gland to stimulate secretion of luteinizing hormone, which the gonads require to produce testosterone. High estrogen can thus shut down the normal testicular production of testosterone (or hinder production), which could explain your lower end T levels.. Your sitting at a 4:2 ratio so it's not entirely to bad,from what we can see in this essay, but it's not the greatest either..

On your next blood test, I would suggest getting a female panel done..This will provide a better snap shot of where you're at..

How's your libido, and overall energy?

IMO your deff a prime candidate for TRT, as its major for your overall health!

 

[Megatron28]

Just speculation since we don't have full blood work, but OP's Free T may be looking OK because the estrogen is competing with the testosterone to be bound to SHBG. All things equal, higher estrogen will result in higher Free T.

 

[.Vision.]

Just speculation since we don't have full blood work, but OP's Free T may be looking OK because the estrogen is competing with the testosterone to be bound to SHBG. All things equal, higher estrogen will result in higher Free T.

I wont disagree with this at all, and 100% correct this is ALL speculation..We deff need to see a better,more actuate analysis..We can play variable all day..
But on a flip side (just an other angle/more speculation), estro can also increase the production of "SHBG" thus lower free test levels (his free isn't the greatest,but its not the worst either).. We deff need more to go on here, because I can't simply give a real definitive accurate answer (conclusion) or opinion so to speak!

Im deff subbed to see more blood work, because this has peaked my curiosity,no doubt!

 

[_Romeo_]

I wont disagree with this at all, and 100% correct this is ALL speculation..We deff need to see a better,more actuate analysis..We can play variable all day..
But on a flip side (just an other angle/more speculation), estro can also increase the production of "SHBG" thus lower free test levels (his free isn't the greatest,but its not the worst either).. We deff need more to go on here, because I can't simply give a real definitive accurate answer (conclusion) or opinion so to speak!

Im deff subbed to see more blood work, because this has peaked my curiosity,no doubt!

Thank you for taking the time to go over this... i am attaching a couple of images, one for the Estro & TT results, and the other is a picture i have taken a week or 2 prior to blood work (so 6 months after last cycle).

Estro and Test Results


Overall Look 6 mo after last cycle


I am trying to get a hold of the rest of the blood report and will post it as well.

 

[.Vision.]

Thank you for taking the time to go over this... i am attaching a couple of images, one for the Estro & TT results, and the other is a picture i have taken a week or 2 prior to blood work (so 6 months after last cycle).

Estro and Test Results


Overall Look 6 mo after last cycle


I am trying to get a hold of the rest of the blood report and will post it as well.

Well at least we now know that its a LC/MC (very accurate testing method)..But we still need to see a more detailed analysis..

You're definitely looking jerked, and wheels clearly have some mass (good to see no neglect there)..Not sure when this pic was taken, but I see some vasculartity and your on drier end considering..