How cutting works and losing muscle

[darkwing86]

Hey guys just a quick question . SO I know that u require a certain amount of calories in order to maintain your muscle mass and weight . But when you cut and you go under those calories to lose weight (specificly fat) , is the body realy burning away just the fat . Say losing 2lb per week ( the apparent "safe way" ) ? I mean , the way it seems to me is that why would the body burn muscle when it stores fat for that specific purpose ? ( for fuel if needed in a later time) ? Wouldn't it burn up all the fat before it starts to burn muscle ? That's what seems to make sense to me that it would do , burning muscle would be like a last resort wouldn't it ? that's the question . On 500mg of test and wanting to cut and just afraid to lose muscle

 

[Truushot]

Ok here is my logic understanding and experience.

So the body uses carbohydrates as energy. To do this it turns them into glycogen and stores it on the muscle to be used at a later date. Fat is not what you think it is. It is the byproduct of excess calories turned to omentum with the use of insulin naturally secreted from the pancreas. The body doesn't technically classify this as energy for later use. Although many of us will say our belly is a gas tank for the fuck machine. Anywho...

So about losing muscle and how to do it right to lose fat. So think of it this way your body uses up it's glycogen daily and replenishes it with food. So if you go caloric deficient your glycogen stores are depleated. A good way to tell if they are depleted is by checking your weight if you go kito for like 4 days. You see a body has about 2000-3000 grams of glycogen in it. Glycogen needs to be suspended in water in the muscle. So say there is 4000 grams of glycogen and water. Do some math.

3000g/29g=103 oz
103oz/16oz=6.6 lbs

So you should in theory drop around 3-5 lbs as you deplete your glycogen levels down. Now after you do this here is the important part. You can't get the heart going too fast. If you do the body is starved so it goes catabolic and starts looking for any energy source it can find and muscle is the preferred fuel. If you stay nice and low on the bpm like 125-130 the body can burn fat efficiently enough to not be catabolic and your muscle loss should be minimized.

Things that help are steroids, beach chains, protein shakes, and other stuff I'm too lazy to mention. 3j can help with that stuff.

That is how I UNDERSTAND it. I am sure there are things to add to it but I feel like that was parochial for anyone to understand. I get that there are people on this forum who are new and I wanted to make sure they got it too.

Hope this helps. Feedback is welcome!

 

[Teutonic]

Very nicely done...

I do my aerobics at a fairly leisurely pace but for relatively long times...bpm 115-130 max

 

[Truushot]

Then you shouldn't see much catabolism. I mean it's different for everyone but all I know is I see a shit load of runners who look terrible.

 

[smittiot]

Then you shouldn't see much catabolism. I mean it's different for everyone but all I know is I see a shit load of runners who look terrible.

No doubt. Most runners my age are skinny-fat. Look good with a suit on, but when they take off their shirt...look like a non-athletic teen girl in need of a training bra.

 

[Truushot]

Thanks man I'm hard now on Easter!

 

[bigkit34]

Absolutely right on the bpm. Most people don't know their Target Heart Rate and just hop pn cardio going balls to the wall dripping sweat not realizing they are burning up their muscle. Everybody has a diff THR too google The Karvonen Method for THR if upu don't already know how to find yours. Oh and no don't go by the THR charts pn the treadmills as they don't take into account your Resting Heart Rate

 

[smittiot]

Thanks man I'm hard now on Easter!

If your wife is like mine, she will gladly get on her knees and "pray" for you.

 

[Truushot]

My wife is my avatar but I tried to out up a pic of her training and won't go up. She is like shredded right now. How do I upload it?View attachment 557143

 

[darkwing86]

brilliant man thank you for the clearing up and understanding . Always great to learn something new and make light of things !

 

[darkwing86]

how about cardio , what would you recommend ? 125-130 bpm for maybe 30 minutes ? 2-3 times a week ? I haven't done much cardio

 

[Truushot]

I would keep it below that. Do like 115 to be safe. Slow and steady just extend it a little bit. If you are cutting hard 5x per week. If you're trying to get lean and look good 3x per week 45 mins. Watch a show on netflix. Makes it go fast.

 

[luckypaul]

Hey guys just a quick question . SO I know that u require a certain amount of calories in order to maintain your muscle mass and weight . But when you cut and you go under those calories to lose weight (specificly fat) , is the body realy burning away just the fat . Say losing 2lb per week ( the apparent "safe way" ) ? I mean , the way it seems to me is that why would the body burn muscle when it stores fat for that specific purpose ? ( for fuel if needed in a later time) ? Wouldn't it burn up all the fat before it starts to burn muscle ? That's what seems to make sense to me that it would do , burning muscle would be like a last resort wouldn't it ? that's the question . On 500mg of test and wanting to cut and just afraid to lose muscle

Brother you will always lose some size cutting, mostly H20 though. AAS will help by reducing cortisol levels, but you will still lose some size. Keep your protein intake up. Cut carbs back and no carbs after 5pm or in the evening.
What are you using to cut with brother? Lowering the test some and adding tren or masteron would be helpful since there will not be as much aromatization.

 

[Truushot]

Dark I sent you a pm. Lemme know if you get it.

 

[darkwing86]

Im actually just taking test at 500mg per week . But im considering maybe going for some clen for a little while . What do you guys think about less calories vs cardio . Something im not quite clear about . What would be the difference in say dropping maintenance calories ( to lose fat ) as opposed to doing cardio to lose fat . I mean I understand the benefit or cardio but I mean , wouldn't u still drop body fat just by dropping caloric intake slowly ?

 

[Truushot]

The be honest and blunt...NOPE just the opposite!

If you starve your body will eat muscle ALL DAY LONG. You will get lean but you will get weak skinny and nasty

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

What would be the difference in say dropping maintenance calories ( to lose fat ) as opposed to doing cardio to lose fat, wouldn't u still drop body fat just by dropping caloric intake slowly ?

The difference is this: its easier to increase fat loss through your diet then it is through more cardio because your diet is working 24hrs a day, while cardio (especially at low intensity) is contributing a pretty minimal amount

Cardio isn't required to lose fat, especially if you have decent muscle mass to begin with, because you have plenty of room to steadily decrease your calories until you reach your goal.

The only reason anyone should be incorporating cardio to help with fat loss is because they don't have room in their diet to keep decreasing calories. For example, it would be stupid to tell a 5'3 120lb female bikini competitor to keep cutting calories because it would get to a ridiculously low level.

Cardio, in my experience, causes more problems then it solves on a cut because people ALWAYS over do it. The maximum sessions of cardio I would recommend is 3x week 30 mins low intensity, beyond that your just eating into your recovery time (important on caloric deficits) & increasing the risks of metabolic slowdown (slower fat loss in the future).

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

If you starve your body will eat muscle ALL DAY LONG. You will get lean but you will get weak skinny and nasty

Yea....no.

If you maintain high protein intake and keep your resistance training intensity high (lift heavy), you can go very low on calories and still maintain muscle (this applies even more on cycle).

 

[Truushot]

It's a valid theory and it does work wjat you are saying. I would question his ability to do this correctly. I am never in favor of starving. I have told him through pm's about the importance of protein intake.

And if you starve, which by definition means not to eat I can assure you what I suggested will happen will in fact happen. He isn't competing he is trimming up. He needs a good diet high in protein and complex carbs with lots of gross vegetables. (Hate em)

If he keeps eating smart runs the correct out of gear with the right intensity I can assure you he will get the results he wants to achieve.

For the record I don't do any cardio. I lift hard and super heavy. Lots of doubles triples giant sets and super sets. When I talk to guys who are looking for practical doable solutions.

It's a good discussion at a minimum.

 

[Roush]

? I mean , the way it seems to me is that why would the body burn muscle when it stores fat for that specific purpose ?

Because of self survival mechanisms built in the body.. It would rather store fat and use muscle for energy.. Why ? Because less muscle means less energy and calories needed by the body to survive,, and the fat stored is a 'storage' mechanism .
If your body goes catabolic and uses muscle for energy instead of fat.. Guess what , your body can now survive on less calories and a slower metabolism!!

So in order to burn fat and not muscle you have to trick your body and go against its natural survival mechanisms. Add on top of that our current bodies conditioning over the last 2000 years has been to rely on carbs for energy (carbs were 'invented' by man to feed the masses of society.. Giant fields of wheat and corn etc. could feed 1000s of people and give them a since of "fullness"... But survival man living independent.. ''Cave men' essentially,, relied on meats and nuts and fruit and veggies ,, their bodies used fat for energy, not carbs)

Basically like mrrippedziila said.. If you can maintain a high protein, and high positive nitrogen retention, you can keep muscle while burning fat.. It's all about the diet and not the cardio.
AAS greatly aids in maintaining positive nitrogen retention with a high protein diet.. So yeah, use AAS for a cut too.. Helps retain muscle mass while cutting (dependent on diet of course)