Im about to burn up today!

[Megatron28]

Dont stop the hcg...at all. Maintain leydig cell function, it makes recovery a lot easier and all that comes with that (gains retention, etc).
You hormones are fucuating right now, especially with the mix of esters. Its gonna take things time to level out. Dont go switching things up at all right now, if anything continue as you are. The cia is a great addition on cycle at a low dose daily to lower your BP (if you need too). I use it on cycle for that very purpose. Id continue using it unless it is lowering your BP too much, then ddrop it (i doubt that is happening btw)
Keep everything as it is, give it a couple weeks at least and see how you are making out (as long as your reactions are not too extreme). You should do mid cycle bloods about 7-8weeks in, let that determine any changes in dosage you make and the only thing I would envision having to change is possibly upping the Stane. Stane is quite often under-dosed.
Your only a week in, just relax, let things stabilize, in a few weeks if need be make some adjustments. I think you are fine and just going through the rush of exogenous androgens.

^^^^^ What Jimi said. ^^^^^

 

[mudflat]

Never used Tren but bought some to try at week 8. I will quit using NPP at week 8 also. Base line test was 431 ng/DL or whatever Labcorp scale is.

 

[tballz]

Just because someone is a rep for a company and they post in a manner that makes it SEEM like they know what they are talking about sadly does not make that the case. There is a post in this thread that exemplifies that.
Now the poster can take this as a personal attack or as an opportunity to potentially learn a few things and grow, that's up to him. I have nothing against him but the advice he gave was pretty poor IMO.
The symptoms you described as they potentially relate to blood pressure would be a result of high blood pressure. Cialis does NOT increase blood pressure (not ever in spite of what someone else posted), it decreases it.
Dropping it will do nothing OR will make things even worse, yes worse.
Now as far as HCG, there is this huge misinformation re HCG and its effects on estrogen. People go around saying oh it really increases estrogen, some even go so far as to say it is converted directly to estrogen an test.......pffft....all hogwash. Here is what HCG does, HCG mimics LH. What does this mean? Well unlike say exogenous test which when introduced to the body aromatizes to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme, HCG mimics LH, then signals the pituitary which elicits the release of many hormones. Pregnenolone, Androstenedione, Testosterone and so on. Because of this it is used by those on trt as it back-fills many hormonal pathways providing benefits such as a sense of well being and emotional stability. Now one must understand that these precursor hormones also aromatize to estrogen via thee very same aromatase enzyme that test does. Because people do not understand this they have this (mistaken) idea that HCG pushes estrogen through the roof when compared to say exogenous test. Now while it is true that if you took say 80mg of test per week and got bloods, then compared it to say taking 2500iu hcg/week (a random numerical example) and got bloods you may get identical test levels BUT your e2 levels would in fact be slightly elevated in the HCG bloods for the reason I mentioned above. Now one might come to the erroneous conclusion that I just supported the case for HCG pushing estrogen through the roof when added. Well I didn't. Because first of all the increase is not by any means dramatic and very rarely would it become clinically significant. Also the aromatization that occurs with HCG occurs via the very same aromatase enzyme that it occurs with when using just test. The very same aromatase enzyme you are managing by taking (in this case) exemestane. So you see your ai will manage the aromatase enzyme, thus limiting the aromatization of ALL hormones to estrogen so the idea of dropping HCG to reduce estrogen (when you haven't even gotten bloods and dont even know your e2 level for cripes sakes) is simply ridiculous.
You have been given excellent advice by some in this thread. Androgens play a significant role in the regulation of body temperature as well as estrogen in the regulation of blood pressure. Allow your body to achieve some homeostasis and then make any decisions on changing any doses.
I hope this has been helpful and please be cautious as to who's advice you heed, no matter how intelligent or experienced they may try to come off.
Lift Strong!

 

[Milton]

Just because someone is a rep for a company and they post in a manner that makes it SEEM like they know what they are talking about sadly does not make that the case. There is a post in this thread that exemplifies that.
Now the poster can take this as a personal attack or as an opportunity to potentially learn a few things and grow, that's up to him. I have nothing against him but the advice he gave was pretty poor IMO.
The symptoms you described as they potentially relate to blood pressure would be a result of high blood pressure. Cialis does NOT increase blood pressure (not ever in spite of what someone else posted), it decreases it.
Dropping it will do nothing OR will make things even worse, yes worse.
Now as far as HCG, there is this huge misinformation re HCG and its effects on estrogen. People go around saying oh it really increases estrogen, some even go so far as to say it is converted directly to estrogen an test.......pffft....all hogwash. Here is what HCG does, HCG mimics LH. What does this mean? Well unlike say exogenous test which when introduced to the body aromatizes to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme, HCG mimics LH, then signals the pituitary which elicits the release of many hormones. Pregnenolone, Androstenedione, Testosterone and so on. Because of this it is used by those on trt as it back-fills many hormonal pathways providing benefits such as a sense of well being and emotional stability. Now one must understand that these precursor hormones also aromatize to estrogen via thee very same aromatase enzyme that test does. Because people do not understand this they have this (mistaken) idea that HCG pushes estrogen through the roof when compared to say exogenous test. Now while it is true that if you took say 80mg of test per week and got bloods, then compared it to say taking 2500iu hcg/week (a random numerical example) and got bloods you may get identical test levels BUT your e2 levels would in fact be slightly elevated in the HCG bloods for the reason I mentioned above. Now one might come to the erroneous conclusion that I just supported the case for HCG pushing estrogen through the roof when added. Well I didn't. Because first of all the increase is not by any means dramatic and very rarely would it become clinically significant. Also the aromatization that occurs with HCG occurs via the very same aromatase enzyme that it occurs with when using just test. The very same aromatase enzyme you are managing by taking (in this case) exemestane. So you see your ai will manage the aromatase enzyme, thus limiting the aromatization of ALL hormones to estrogen so the idea of dropping HCG to reduce estrogen (when you haven't even gotten bloods and dont even know your e2 level for cripes sakes) is simply ridiculous.
You have been given excellent advice by some in this thread. Androgens play a significant role in the regulation of body temperature as well as estrogen in the regulation of blood pressure. Allow your body to achieve some homeostasis and then make any decisions on changing any doses.
I hope this has been helpful and please be cautious as to who's advice you heed, no matter how intelligent or experienced they may try to come off.
Lift Strong!

Where did you get this info?

 

[tballz]

Where did you get this info?

If you are referring to the LH- pregnenolone, andro info etc it is common knowledge by any person educated in the endocrine system. For example in this link it clearly states how lh converts to the aforementioned hormones etc ( Sex hormone synthesis, regulation, and function | McMaster Pathophysiology Review ). It is also common knowledge in endo circles that these other hormones are subject to aromatization via the aromatase enzyme as well. Dr Michael Scally has discussed this very topic and touched on it in the past. The problem is he just said people are stupid and dont even know why hcg increases e2 like it does. He didn't thoroughly explain WHY, he just eluded to it saying they forget about the precursor hormones. Thats what I have done, explained it clearly.

 

[Milton]

If you are referring to the LH- pregnenolone, andro info etc it is common knowledge by any person educated in the endocrine system. For example in this link it clearly states how lh converts to the aforementioned hormones etc ( Sex hormone synthesis, regulation, and function | McMaster Pathophysiology Review ). It is also common knowledge in endo circles that these other hormones are subject to aromatization via the aromatase enzyme as well. Dr Michael Scally has discussed this very topic and touched on it in the past. The problem is he just said people are stupid and dont even know why hcg increases e2 like it does. He didn't thoroughly explain WHY, he just eluded to it saying they forget about the precursor hormones. Thats what I have done, explained it clearly.

Michael Scally has no license why is that? Alot of what he says is null and void. Care to retort?

 

[juced_porkchop]

PDE5 inhibitors (viagra and Cialis for eg) where actually originally developed for HBP patients, it was developed to lower blood pressure.... the side effect they found when researching it was increased erections.. and then they decided to market it for that, many docs and people use CIA or V for this use, to lower blood pressure/keep it in check.

 

[juced_porkchop]

Michael Scally has no license why is that? Alot of what he says is null and void. Care to retort?

hes got some good info sure, but it out of touch on alot of other stuff and wrong. and (I feel) had his head stuck soo far up his (insert vulgar word here) to even see or accept things when he is wrong or off.
does he know things? sure
does he know everything as he seems to think so? far from it...
maybe if he got off his high horse he would learn more.... having a degree doesnt mean you know more than everyone else. im sure we all met or know about a doc that leave us wondering how the heck hes even allowed to treat people....
hes actually usually right on alot of things IMO, but when hes not or you ask for a reason to his statement, you seem to get a 16 yr having a tantrum...
Ill leave it at that since hes not here, or id be posing a page long bashing about how immature and out of touch he is on alot of things, from personal exp...

hes got alot of good info i wont lie, but always research it yourself and question everything in life.

 

[mudflat]

There are many opinions on the subject of HCG. I have it and will continue to take it as it has been mixed. I will stay the course and let my body plain out and see how I feel.

 

[Dreaded Pirate Roberts]

So Scally doesn't have A LICENSE for a reason. Don't ever quote him. From what I'm seeing what your saying is sound. whats with the the hostility?

Endo circles is laughable. I've sat in a ends office who didn't understand the need for hcg to increase progesterone levels when being suppressed. Moron thought he knew better too....

slow your roll sparky. You know better than to treat the staff with animosity.

 

[bigben66]

You know better than to treat the staff with animosity.

I must have missed something... Is Vision staff now?

 

[tballz]

Michael Scally has no license why is that? Alot of what he says is null and void and alot of what you have posted smells funky as well. Care to retort?

I dont mean to sound funky in any way man, not at all.
Oh I agree Scally is a dick. I dont know the ins and out of the license thing but it annoys me how he says things without explaining them, like the knowledge is only available to some secret society and "you" (as in anyone in general) wouldn't understand. Thats annoying about him BUT he does possess some knowledge which I will take as much of that (provided it is accurate) as I can. In this case it is accurate. If you have an opportunity you can read over the link I posted and it states what I said it would.
Anyway if you want to discuss my contention further by all means ask me as many questions as you want and I will go into greater detail and do my best to explain anything I have stated.

 

[tballz]

So Scally doesn't have A LICENSE for a reason. Don't ever quote him. From what I'm seeing what you saying is sound. whats withe the hostility?

End circles is laughable. I've sat in a ends office who didn't understand the need for hcg to increase progesterone levels when being suppressed. Moron thought he knew better too....

slow your roll sparky. You know better than to treat the staff with animosity.

My words are not personal nor am I hostile or angry, I am opposed to misinformation being spread and then seeing people believe it and support the person who posted it. Then on top of it when the person that posted it is questioned they act condescending and pull, well ill call it a Scally, and say, " I COULD explain what I said but I dont want to make a mess of this thread." Thats nonsense. If you have a contention and wish to support it by all means do but dont pull the " I could tell you but I m not going too" especially when your advice is wrong, thats all.
We all learn and grow together but that means we are all wrong at one point or another. Acting like your right but not sharing info to support why really often translates to I am wrong and now I cannot explain why I said what I said. If that isnt the case just explain your reason for posting the info that you did. If that IS the case maybe just concede that you are perhaps wrong and move on but DONT spread misinformation to new and old alike and have them go around thinking that something that is totally wrong is in fact correct. That how people potentially get hurt and how bro-science is spawned.
Anyway I am sorry if I offended the forum or staff. I am glad you recognize the validity to the info I shared. I think its important people truly understand why HCG does the things it does and how to use it properly. Again my apologies if the forum was offended.

 

[Milton]

My words are not personal nor am I hostile or angry, I am opposed to misinformation being spread and then seeing people believe it and support the person who posted it. Then on top of it when the person that posted it is questioned they act condescending and pull,

I agree with you for sure here, as alot of under 24 year old kids are out there belching out advice like they have a PHD to even younger kids who believe every word they say, now thats frikking scary.

 

[ClarkFit]

Why on earth should he stop the HCG? He shouldn't stop the HCG at all it is an important part in every cycle to increase the odds of a better recovery. Watching macros has absolutely nothing to do with this issue, and limiting sodium is absolutely ridiculous as well as sodium is a must if one wants to build muscle, maintain muscle fullness, have energy, and mental focus.

OP, do not listen to the quoted advice. You are not running a ton of gear, your cycle is fine. What is happening is you are introducing a number of different foreign substances into your body and your body is doing its thing while adjusting and getting used to whats happening. You will be fine, keep doing things as you have been doing and this feeling will go away.

Agree here, went through this experience myself

 

[Onk]

I must have missed something... Is Vision staff now?

I second this..and to call any comments on this thread hostile is an overstatement. If anything, people were way too nice when a steroid rep gave misinformaton as if it was gospel that could have made OPs position worse.

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Michael Scally has no license why is that? Alot of what he says is null and void. Care to retort?

So Scally doesn't have A LICENSE for a reason. Don't ever quote him. From what I'm seeing what your saying is sound. whats with the the hostility?

Dr Scally lost his license because he advocated prescribing AAS to patients who wanted to use it so that at least their health & safety could be monitored through bloodwork with adjustments made as necessary.
He has more clinical experience than most with regards to the health issues of AAS users.
He's a leader in getting AAS-induced hypogonadism recognized as a legitimate medical condition.
He also uses evidence to support practically everything he says and is right most of the time.

That is my retort to your shitty attemps to discredit a guy who has worked his ass off for the benefit of AAS users aka most of this forum

 

[Dreaded Pirate Roberts]

Scally is a clown. There is Only 1 Licensed Dr in the US openly treating steroid induced hypogonadism and steroid users while furthering real scientific research. That is Dr Tom O'Conner. Look for a new Article from him here on Steroidology in the next Day.

 

[Milton]

So last night I took my 4 pin, 250mg Sustanon and 150mg of NPP. Pinning this 3 times a week. I also added 250 iu of HCG, 12.5mg of Stane, and 5mg of Cialis. Today I have felt very hot and sweating alot, also an uneasy feeling which may be some anxiety. I'm 45, and this is my 4th cycle. Just don't remember being so hot feeling before. Anything specific I need to look for?

So hows it going with the sweats so far, any improvements?

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Scally is a clown. There is Only 1 Licensed Dr in the US openly treating steroid induced hypogonadism and steroid users while furthering real scientific research. That is Dr Tom O'Conner. Look for a new Article from him here on Steroidology in the next Day.

So Scally is a clown because he's active on meso while Tom is awesome because he's a sponsor here.
Gotcha