Inconsistent results with TRT

[one way step]

Okay so I have been here awhile trying to get ahold of my TRT situation and the poor results I was getting.

I had finally found a routine that worked GREAT: I would take 500iu HCG and .25mg anastrozole on Monday, and 200mg Test Cyp on Tuesday.

This routine worked very well until I started retaining a lot of water in my face or chest (especially my nipples) that I determined was caused by the HCG. After reducing or eliminating that, the problem would go away. However the TRT would be less effective, my sex drive would decline, erection quality was bad, and my energy was poor.

Even lowering the HCG to 250iu gives me dramatically different results.

I know others will suggest more traditional methods of TRT (twice weekly test shots, etc) but I am tried everything since November and this one works the best for me BY FAR. I thought I had it down but then these sides threw me off.

What can I do to avoid these sides?

BW from about a month ago, taken on Tues morning before I took a shot of test cyp.

TEST; 731
E2: 6 (range 7-36)

 

[halfwit]

You say you've tried everything, but have you tried:

Monday morning: 250iu HCG, 0.125mg adex, 100mg test.
Thursday evening: 250iu HCG, 0.125mg adex, 100mg test.

Yes, it's the E3.5D protocol, but I wonder if you split your AI and HCG as well? The reason I ask is that your E2 is very low in your bloodwork, which tells me that you're likely getting a bit of a roller-coaster effect by having a spike in testosterone, followed by a spike in estradiol (water retention), followed by a crash of estradiol - then the trough of your testosterone levels.

I've heard of some guys having hypersensitivity to HCG, but it's usually a constant aggravation of the nipples, even with perfect test/estradiol.

It's definitely worth looking into if you haven't already. Just sounds to me like that's what's going on.

My .02c

 

[one way step]

I have done that routine except with .25mg AI on each day and it left me feeling crappy. No energy, no sex drive, etc.

 

[IMT staff]

you are always going to retain a little more water on T, thats just how it works. Your E2 is way too low.

This is very common we see it ALL the time. Guys worry so much about getting gyno the slightest hint of any water retention at all they start eating adex like skittles and its a downward spiral from there.

 

[halfwit]

I have done that routine except with .25mg AI on each day and it left me feeling crappy. No energy, no sex drive, etc.

Yeah, I'd try cutting that adex in half. Remember, low estradiol can make you feel crappy just as much as high estradiol.

Thanks for the confirmation Todd.

 

[one way step]

I do have aggravated nipples as a result of this routine. I've been taking hcg for years and this is the first time I've had this type of side effect. They are aggravated, puffy and pushed out.

 

[halfwit]

I do have aggravated nipples as a result of this routine. I've been taking hcg for years and this is the first time I've had this type of side effect. They are aggravated, puffy and pushed out.

Hormones aren't the only thing that can change the appearance of your nipples. A change in diet for instance can cause additional water retention.

By pushed out, do you just mean erect? If so, there's really nothing wrong with that. In fact, I have had erect nipples (Yeah, TMI ) since starting TRT many years ago.

 

[one way step]

Hormones aren't the only thing that can change the appearance of your nipples. A change in diet for instance can cause additional water retention.

By pushed out, do you just mean erect? If so, there's really nothing wrong with that. In fact, I have had erect nipples (Yeah, TMI ) since starting TRT many years ago.

They aren't erect but they are very water retended (if that's a word lol). Like they look like they have like one inch of water behind them and point in different directions.

This all just started recently when I was doing this routine. Been on HCG for years without this problem.

 

[Ziegler]

Bulbous

 

[Dreaded Pirate Roberts]

I crashed my e2 so bad it was causing joint problems with my hips. Lower that ai dose.

 

[one way step]

Does AI come in any pill form lower than 1mg? I'll have to practice cutting the pill into 1/8ths.

One of the things I don't understand is how I, out of nowhere, developed these adverse reactions to HCG shots. I have literally been taking HCG for years, with my doctor sometimes having me at doses at 2500iu. Never had this problem until a month ago.

HCG usually has had the opposite effect on me; it would suppress any water retention. Could this routine have caused it to react differently?

 

[hiram1st]

Might want to try RUI liquid adex. I've used it and it's g2g. Liquid form is alot easier to get exact smaller doses

 

[Ziegler]

Have you done anything else different ? Maybe more or less of anything like sex drugs or even soy products ? I doubt its a funky batch of hcg but you never know for sure. Do you do anything new laying on your stomachlike surfing boogie boarding maybe even a new piece of equipment at the gym ? I'm not an expert on gyno just trying to maybe jog your memory.

 

[one way step]

Nah nothing different in life that I can think of. Maybe it's a bad batch?

 

[halfwit]

I just don't think it's hormonal given your bloodwork. I'd look at sodium intake, rapid weight gain, a significant increase in carbohydrate intake, some prescription meds, even a change in insulin resistance can do this.

If nothing in your protocol has changed, that's where I'd look. Unless you're buying HCG from somewhere other than a pharmacy, which could potentially be the problem if the gave you something other than HCG.

 

[one way step]

My HCG is prescribed so I get it from the pharmacy.

I've been feeling like shit since I took my shots and AI on Mon and Tues. No energy, no appetite, joints are ackey. I definitely must have crashed my e2 with the .25mg Adex per week. Sex drive isn't bad though and I've been getting a lot of random boners and good morning wood.

Damn. I thought I had finally gotten a good routine down. I don't get how the HCG and the AI turned on me lol.

I'm thinking about taking just 200mg test cyp next week (no hcg or ai) and then going on a 200mg test and .125mg Adex every week going forward. Good plan?

Also I have more HCG vials, should I try another vial to see if I get the same shitty sides? HCG seemed to help a lot before the sides

 

[halfwit]

My HCG is prescribed so I get it from the pharmacy.

I've been feeling like shit since I took my shots and AI on Mon and Tues. No energy, no appetite, joints are ackey. I definitely must have crashed my e2 with the .25mg Adex per week. Sex drive isn't bad though and I've been getting a lot of random boners and good morning wood.

Damn. I thought I had finally gotten a good routine down. I don't get how the HCG and the AI turned on me lol.

I'm thinking about taking just 200mg test cyp next week (no hcg or ai) and then going on a 200mg test and .125mg Adex every week going forward. Good plan?

Also I have more HCG vials, should I try another vial to see if I get the same shitty sides? HCG seemed to help a lot before the sides

Change one thing at a time, that's the number one rule to troubleshooting. Otherwise, you'll be guessing what fixed the problem.

I'd personally just drop the dose of the AI first and see how it goes. If you still have problems, then drop the HCG. At that point your blood levels should be stabilized enough to grab another test to confirm whether or not the new AI dose is optimal.

 

[one way step]

If I crash my e2 enough, can it affect my cognitive abilities? I've been feeling like a total moron the past few days and have had difficulties in writing, reading, and communicating.

 

[halfwit]

If I crash my e2 enough, can it affect my cognitive abilities? I've been feeling like a total moron the past few days and have had difficulties in writing, reading, and communicating.

Yep. Low E2 can be just as bad as low T in my experience, if not worse (short term of course) .

 

[Jimstigator]

If I crash my e2 enough, can it affect my cognitive abilities? I've been feeling like a total moron the past few days and have had difficulties in writing, reading, and communicating.

Yes. I am a walking rock with crashed E2.

And as halfwit mentioned - some guys are hyper HCG sensitive - ME! Based on some reading elsewhere, I have been doing 50-100iu HCG a day. I have a much easier time with it than 250 twice a week. As for the adex doses, you can get a pill down to 1/4 with a cutter. When I have needed to go lower, I actually just grind it in between my finger nails a bit. In the end, I am wasting some each time, but whatever. It lets me take a 1/4 down to an 1/8th, while still on prescription adex. I have also heard of guys grinding it down to powder and mixing it into a dropper full of vodka.