Is testosterone undecanoate the best option for low SHBG guys?

[reddevilg]

Hi - I finally found a doc would treat me for TRT but I am not happy with the protocol he suggested - Testosterone enanthate 250 mg (similar to cypionate I assume) every 3 weeks. When I told him this would not be suitable especially for me (my SHBG is 12.6) he didn't agree and wanted me to stick to the insane protocol.

However, I was wondering if Testosterone undeconate might be the best option for low SHBG guys like me. I would like to avoid injecting more than once a week, and hence the convenience of Testosterone undeconate is attractive. I am from India and testoserone undeconate is available here as generic.

I was wondering if 200 mg Testosterone undeconate every 2 weeks (or 100 mg every week) could be a suitable protocol? The nebido protocol (1000 mg every 10 weeks) might mean that by the end of 9th or 10th week, hardly any testosterone be left in the blood for low SHBG guys. I am just conjecturing, and shall discuss it with my endo in my next visit, and in the meanwhile was hoping to get some thoughts on this.

Thanks.

 

[Megatron28]

Nebido would e a good choice.

You should focus on the Half Life of the esters. That is what drives the injection frequency -- not your SHBG levels.

 

[reddevilg]

Nebido would e a good choice.

You should focus on the Half Life of the esters. That is what drives the injection frequency -- not your SHBG levels.

Hi Megatron - I thought a combination of both shbg and half life of an ester plays a role in deciding the frequency of injections? Wouldn't low shbg guy clear out testosterone sooner? Hence the need for frequent injections or going for a slower ester like testosterone undecanoate. Again all these assumptions are based on my limited knowledge I have learnt here and on other sites. Pls correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Mprtz]

There may be something to this, the theory being that low SHBG causes a larger portion of testosterone to remain free, which in turn causes more of it to be metabolized per unit time.

This goes together with the concept that the purpose of SHBG binding is not to "waste" testosterone, but to protect it from being metabolized - to act as a buffer.

It is also somewhat consistent with the thought that lowering of SHBG in reaction to exogenous testosterone (especially in supra doses) is an attempt by the body to re-establish equilibrium and rid itself of "excess" testosterone by increasing the rate of metabolism.

Guys with naturally low SHBG anectodally often respond poorly to TRT, and some have reported better results with more frequent injections than would normally be warranted.

 

[juced_porkchop]

Nebido would e a good choice.

You should focus on the Half Life of the esters. That is what drives the injection frequency -- not your SHBG levels.

Agreed. focus on the ester, dont over complicate

 

[newtohrt]

Low SHBG makes TRT not so great

There may be something to this, the theory being that low SHBG causes a larger portion of testosterone to remain free, which in turn causes more of it to be metabolized per unit time.

This goes together with the concept that the purpose of SHBG binding is not to "waste" testosterone, but to protect it from being metabolized - to act as a buffer.

It is also somewhat consistent with the thought that lowering of SHBG in reaction to exogenous testosterone (especially in supra doses) is an attempt by the body to re-establish equilibrium and rid itself of "excess" testosterone by increasing the rate of metabolism.

Guys with naturally low SHBG anectodally often respond poorly to TRT, and some have reported better results with more frequent injections than would normally be warranted.

FWIW - I have naturally low SHBG and have been on TRT for over 3 years. I have more energy than before and no more brain fog, but that's all. No better libido, no elimination of ED, its not a lot of fun overall. I have tried every protocol you can think of and it all feels the same, which doesn't really feel any different than not being on TRT, except for the better energy and no brain fog. I sincerely hope you have better results than I have had.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

I have low SHBG also and notice a drastic different injecting 2x weekly compared to 1x weekly.

If I ever switched over to Test Undecanoate I would be aiming to see how it goes at 200mg shot 1x weekly (ofcourse, 200mg may be lowered or raised wherever it puts YOUR levels), over pinning Test E 2x weekly.

 

[Alpin]

I have low SHBG also and notice a drastic different injecting 2x weekly compared to 1x weekly.

If I ever switched over to Test Undecanoate I would be aiming to see how it goes at 200mg shot 1x weekly (ofcourse, 200mg may be lowered or raised wherever it puts YOUR levels), over pinning Test E 2x weekly.

Twice weekly pins don't mess with your SHBG as much you find?
Do you know your SHBG before TRT?
whats it now?

 

[reddevilg]

FWIW - I have naturally low SHBG and have been on TRT for over 3 years. I have more energy than before and no more brain fog, but that's all. No better libido, no elimination of ED, its not a lot of fun overall. I have tried every protocol you can think of and it all feels the same, which doesn't really feel any different than not being on TRT, except for the better energy and no brain fog. I sincerely hope you have better results than I have had.

Have you ever tried testosterone undecanoate? What were the results with that ester?

I have low SHBG also and notice a drastic different injecting 2x weekly compared to 1x weekly.

If I ever switched over to Test Undecanoate I would be aiming to see how it goes at 200mg shot 1x weekly (ofcourse, 200mg may be lowered or raised wherever it puts YOUR levels), over pinning Test E 2x weekly.

Any specific reason to up the dosage? Generally the dosage AFAIK is 100 mg weekly irrespective of the ester, the type of the ester then decides the frequency of injections. or is is that with the Testosterone undecanoate one has to inject more?

 

[Megatron28]

Any specific reason to up the dosage? Generally the dosage AFAIK is 100 mg weekly irrespective of the ester, the type of the ester then decides the frequency of injections. r is is that with the Testosterone undecanoate one has to inject more?

Common TRT dosages are 100-200mg of Testosterone per week. Some go up to 250mg per week but that is unusual.

You need to keep in mind that there is no "one size fits all" with TRT. You have to find what works best for you.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Twice weekly pins don't mess with your SHBG as much you find?
Do you know your SHBG before TRT?
whats it now?

No not that is affects my SHBG... I just found I felt a lot better and my e2 was a lot easier to control. Going by what I have read in, and it's something along the lines of this, is that lower SHBG means you will metabolise Test much faster and therefore will respond better by keeping injections more frequent. Of course, this is true for everyone, but for the low SHBG guys it is much more applicable if you get what I'm trying to say.

In terms of affecting my SHBG, it dipped even lower when dbol was in the mix but I was on a blast and at the time of the blood test had aprox. 1000mg plus per week in me from memory it was 250mg Test/5-700mg of Deca/400mg of Tren/30mg of dbol. Otherwise it have pretty much been constnalty at a level of 13 pmol/l (Not sure on actual unit it is in), which is bottom of the range.

And reddevilg, in answer to your question, what Megatron said Typical range is 100-200mg. I have seen people as low as 50mg per week and some as high as 300mg per week, and yes I am talking TRT. Many factors come into play, bodymass, SHBG, aromatase levels, 5AR, amongst others but IMO they are the big ones.

200mg of Test E vs 200mg of Test Undeca for example, in the same person, Test E will give a slightly increased amount of actual hormone than the same amount of Test Undeca. But that's nothing to worry about, choose the ester and a mg amount and dial it in with your doctor.

 

[reddevilg]

No not that is affects my SHBG... I just found I felt a lot better and my e2 was a lot easier to control. Going by what I have read in, and it's something along the lines of this, is that lower SHBG means you will metabolise Test much faster and therefore will respond better by keeping injections more frequent. Of course, this is true for everyone, but for the low SHBG guys it is much more applicable if you get what I'm trying to say.

In terms of affecting my SHBG, it dipped even lower when dbol was in the mix but I was on a blast and at the time of the blood test had aprox. 1000mg plus per week in me from memory it was 250mg Test/5-700mg of Deca/400mg of Tren/30mg of dbol. Otherwise it have pretty much been constnalty at a level of 13 pmol/l (Not sure on actual unit it is in), which is bottom of the range.

And reddevilg, in answer to your question, what Megatron said Typical range is 100-200mg. I have seen people as low as 50mg per week and some as high as 300mg per week, and yes I am talking TRT. Many factors come into play, bodymass, SHBG, aromatase levels, 5AR, amongst others but IMO they are the big ones.

200mg of Test E vs 200mg of Test Undeca for example, in the same person, Test E will give a slightly increased amount of actual hormone than the same amount of Test Undeca. But that's nothing to worry about, choose the ester and a mg amount and dial it in with your doctor.

I have similar SHBG, hence am skeptical about getting on weekly Test E which I know will not be enough. Don't want to inject more frequently than that as I travel most weeks for work. Hence the need for Test Undec - which I feel would anyways be a much better ester for low SHBG guys like us. Will post my log here once I start that protocol, for now I am not getting on TRT.

Also would anyone know the half life of Test Undec? I am getting varied results from google search.

 

[Alpin]

No not that is affects my SHBG... I just found I felt a lot better and my e2 was a lot easier to control. Going by what I have read in, and it's something along the lines of this, is that lower SHBG means you will metabolise Test much faster and therefore will respond better by keeping injections more frequent. Of course, this is true for everyone, but for the low SHBG guys it is much more applicable if you get what I'm trying to say.

In terms of affecting my SHBG, it dipped even lower when dbol was in the mix but I was on a blast and at the time of the blood test had aprox. 1000mg plus per week in me from memory it was 250mg Test/5-700mg of Deca/400mg of Tren/30mg of dbol. Otherwise it have pretty much been constnalty at a level of 13 pmol/l (Not sure on actual unit it is in), which is bottom of the range.

And reddevilg, in answer to your question, what Megatron said Typical range is 100-200mg. I have seen people as low as 50mg per week and some as high as 300mg per week, and yes I am talking TRT. Many factors come into play, bodymass, SHBG, aromatase levels, 5AR, amongst others but IMO they are the big ones.

200mg of Test E vs 200mg of Test Undeca for example, in the same person, Test E will give a slightly increased amount of actual hormone than the same amount of Test Undeca. But that's nothing to worry about, choose the ester and a mg amount and dial it in with your doctor.

If one is on E3D jabs of T...
when would you recommend an accurate day for testing of SHBG?

 

[Alpin]

No not that is affects my SHBG... I just found I felt a lot better and my e2 was a lot easier to control. Going by what I have read in, and it's something along the lines of this, is that lower SHBG means you will metabolise Test much faster and therefore will respond better by keeping injections more frequent. Of course, this is true for everyone, but for the low SHBG guys it is much more applicable if you get what I'm trying to say.

In terms of affecting my SHBG, it dipped even lower when dbol was in the mix but I was on a blast and at the time of the blood test had aprox. 1000mg plus per week in me from memory it was 250mg Test/5-700mg of Deca/400mg of Tren/30mg of dbol. Otherwise it have pretty much been constnalty at a level of 13 pmol/l (Not sure on actual unit it is in), which is bottom of the range.

And reddevilg, in answer to your question, what Megatron said Typical range is 100-200mg. I have seen people as low as 50mg per week and some as high as 300mg per week, and yes I am talking TRT. Many factors come into play, bodymass, SHBG, aromatase levels, 5AR, amongst others but IMO they are the big ones.

200mg of Test E vs 200mg of Test Undeca for example, in the same person, Test E will give a slightly increased amount of actual hormone than the same amount of Test Undeca. But that's nothing to worry about, choose the ester and a mg amount and dial it in with your doctor.

What if your SHBG is 15-30 nmol/l while on TRT ?
Is it still ok to dose test E3D ?
or is 15 nmol/l not considred "low"?

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Apollon, I'm no TRT expert, but it would be good to see where SHBG is at the peak and the trough, just for curiosities sake, but I don't think it will affect it and it's not going to tell us a lot.

Regardless of SHBG, I think the more frequent the better in general. From what I've researched, not a lot can be done about low SHBG in terms of raising it... They say estrogen raises it, yet at the time it was at a level of 6 my e2 was at about 500pmol/L from memory, and that was with dbol = methylestradiol. Estrogen no matter what it is at has never affected my SHBG.

 

[Alpin]

Apollon, I'm no TRT expert, but it would be good to see where SHBG is at the peak and the trough, just for curiosities sake, but I don't think it will affect it and it's not going to tell us a lot.

Regardless of SHBG, I think the more frequent the better in general. From what I've researched, not a lot can be done about low SHBG in terms of raising it... They say estrogen raises it, yet at the time it was at a level of 6 my e2 was at about 500pmol/L from memory, and that was with dbol = methylestradiol. Estrogen no matter what it is at has never affected my SHBG.

Your E2 was at 500 pmol/l at one point?
What was that like?
Any Anxiety, insomnia to report?

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Apollon, I felt fucking great actually...

High E2 doesn't affect me, I actually feel good/same as whenever it is in range.

Low E2... Don't even go there, the anxiety gets intense.

 

[Mprtz]

I believe that nolvadex will raise SHBG, though that's probably not a good long term solution.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Yes Nolvadex is supposed to result in SHBG being increased... Raloxifene, from my experience didn't.

 

[Alpin]

500 pmol/l is 136 pg/ml....
I would grow tits at that dose....
wow...
if u can handle it.