Just a few questions about TRT

[Hypnotix]

What's up!

Just had a few questions regarding TRT.

1. Would cruising on low dose test for reasons other than medical purposes still be considered TRT by users here? Like someone doing it to maintain mass between blasts for example, maybe someone competing.

2. What's the range that most seem to shoot for, 700-1100?

3. My last known natural number was 415 ng/dl. If I was optimized to say 850 ng/dl (if this is good), would I be more capable in terms of developing mass beyond what I'm capable of now? This is not considering blasts. Just the differences in capabilities between 415 and 850 blood test levels. Capable of sustaining more muscle, strength, leaner?

4. Would it be frowned upon if my numbers came back in the low 400s or high 300s and I took the leap to doing low dose test? I understand it's a personal decision, just curious.

5. What are the health risks of low dose test? 200mg/week. Short and Long Term.

Thanks ahead of time to anyone that answers!!

 

[Mprtz]

1. For the purposes of this forum, the term TRT should be reserved for medically supervised, above-board treatment IMO.
Being grouped with users of illegal steroids puts us at risk of increased government scrutiny and interference.

2. In medically supervised TRT, this varies pretty widely from "just enough to be in range" to "upper quartile", "top of range", etc.

3. One would think so, but there's some evidence that the difference between given levels within normal range are not that dramatic.

4. Some will frown. The FDA will frown. You might regret your decision down the road knowing it wasn't really necessary.

5. 200mg/week is a high dose for TRT and will probably put you over range at least part of the time. Short term risk are probably only being shut down, long term risks of that dose include difficulty managing HCT, lipids, acne, hair loss, infertility, testicular shrinkage, etc. At that dose you have to include the somewhat-unknown long term risks of the AI and other ancillaries.

 

[Gramps]

The R in TRT is Replacement. You can't just cruise or bump up your natural T. Once you start "cruising" your natural T shuts off and whatever you're adding is what you'll have to work with. If your natural T is 500, and you "cruise" at the normal 7-8x ratio at, say, 80mg/wk, you'll still even out around the 500-700 neighborhood. Bump it to 100mg/wk and 600-900 numbers are likely, but again, you're natural T is shut off at this point so you can't just start and stop at will. This wasn't mentioned so I don't know if you understood this or not.

 

[Havasu]

My TRT is Physician prescribed, although I do self administer. However, my tests cam back between low 400's (408 or so), and high 300's over a couple tests. To me that was unacceptable, so I have chose TRT. If you are planning to just stay on tests, essentially replacing your Test, then yes it's TRT. Maybe not Doctor prescribed/monitored TRT, but you will be replacing your Testosterone. You would run your "cruises" like TRT, or you would if you're smart for your long term health. Keep your total test 1100 or lower, bio available test 25-30 at highest, preferably closer to 25 , or so my doc says for long term health. You'd run HCG, control estrogen. Your dose would be based on how you respond to test. 70mg 2x per week puts me around 1000. For some people they get nowhere near 1000 with that dosing and need more.

The debate of is it "actually" TRT by some definition is semantics. Some people would call it cruising, some would call it TRT, who cares. The bottom line is are you ready to be injecting yourself for the rest of your life to maintain healthy Test levels, and can you handle the cost of everything needed (Test, HCG, AI (if needed), Syringes/Needles, Blood tests for dialing in, and period monitoring.

 

[Roush]

If your a normally healthy guy, and your not planning on using bodybuilding as a profession in any way or competing at a high level,, then there is no need, imo, to go on trt for life .. your going to go from healthy,, to putting yourself at risk of health issues down the road. why do that ? you want to be stuck 10 years from now having to get a phlebotomy every 2 weeks.

also,, I recently heard in a lecture, that guys with normal to slightly low testosterone levels have longer life spans then guys with high levels of testosterone.. so your purposely putting yourself in a "lower life span" category ***8230; you really want to lower your life span on purpose ?

 

[Havasu]

If your a normally healthy guy, and your not planning on using bodybuilding as a profession in any way or competing at a high level,, then there is no need, imo, to go on trt for life .. your going to go from healthy,, to putting yourself at risk of health issues down the road. why do that ? you want to be stuck 10 years from now having to get a phlebotomy every 2 weeks.

also,, I recently heard in a lecture, that guys with normal to slightly low testosterone levels have longer life spans then guys with high levels of testosterone.. so your purposely putting yourself in a "lower life span" category ***8230; you really want to lower your life span on purpose ?

I had what was considered low normal test. While I will most likely not compete professionally, because I have no interest in that, I do train. I bust my ass, and so I don't want my body working against me with crap testosterone levels, or a hypo-thyroid. At low 400's to high 300's I felt like shit. Now at around 1000 I feel great. I also am on a low dose of a compounded mixture of T4 and T3 that optimized my thyroid levels. I'm already starting to see my body work with me more than fighting me every step.

The info on Test is mixed, but overwhelmingly positive even though there are some studies that continue to try to smear the name of Testosterone. For every study you can probably find a counter study, and that goes for everything out there.

You know what also has been proven to shorten life spans, not to mention a low quality of life? Low test, too low, or too high estrogen, and hormones being generally out of whack.

So, as someone who was low normal it's absolutely been worth it. If test takes a year off my life who cares, the quality within the years I am alive will be better.

 

[Hypnotix]

I had what was considered low normal test. While I will most likely not compete professionally, because I have no interest in that, I do train. I bust my ass, and so I don't want my body working against me with crap testosterone levels, or a hypo-thyroid. At low 400's to high 300's I felt like shit. Now at around 1000 I feel great. I also am on a low dose of a compounded mixture of T4 and T3 that optimized my thyroid levels. I'm already starting to see my body work with me more than fighting me every step.

The info on Test is mixed, but overwhelmingly positive even though there are some studies that continue to try to smear the name of Testosterone. For every study you can probably find a counter study, and that goes for everything out there.

You know what also has been proven to shorten life spans, not to mention a low quality of life? Low test, too low, or too high estrogen, and hormones being generally out of whack.

So, as someone who was low normal it's absolutely been worth it. If test takes a year off my life who cares, the quality within the years I am alive will be better.

This and your previous post is really the whole reason I've considered it. Maybe I killed my test levels and thyroid with my first cycle of prohormones.. that's when my doctor prescribed me T4. After my second cycle of PHs is when I figured out my test was in the 400s.. and it was well past my PCT. Months.

I've had libido problems, fat problems, and general energy issues since 19-20 yrs. old even. Like when I was in my teens.. it wasn't uncommon for me to "want" to have sex 5-6 times a day and masturbate too.. now twice is a rare thing. I stayed generally lean without really trying back then.. and I was always go go go. I just have a strong feeling that 400 isn't my bodies optimal number, like something happened down the road that cut me in half. On paper, and as a man.

This is the entire reason I'm considering it. We are meant to age and drop hormone levels.. but I'm 24 and feel like I'm less "there" than my dad.

The whole muscle sparing (post-blast) aspect, no PCT, must have for competitive BB stuff.. is just secondary. It's awesome of course, but if I made the leap.. I'd see what my body was capable of at 800-1000 test levels before heading into a blast.

Thanks for the replies, those for and against it! I appreciate all feedback.

 

[Havasu]

This and your previous post is really the whole reason I've considered it. Maybe I killed my test levels and thyroid with my first cycle of prohormones.. that's when my doctor prescribed me T4. After my second cycle of PHs is when I figured out my test was in the 400s.. and it was well past my PCT. Months.

I've had libido problems, fat problems, and general energy issues since 19-20 yrs. old even. Like when I was in my teens.. it wasn't uncommon for me to "want" to have sex 5-6 times a day and masturbate too.. now twice is a rare thing. I stayed generally lean without really trying back then.. and I was always go go go. I just have a strong feeling that 400 isn't my bodies optimal number, like something happened down the road that cut me in half. On paper, and as a man.

This is the entire reason I'm considering it. We are meant to age and drop hormone levels.. but I'm 24 and feel like I'm less "there" than my dad.

The whole muscle sparing (post-blast) aspect, no PCT, must have for competitive BB stuff.. is just secondary. It's awesome of course, but if I made the leap.. I'd see what my body was capable of at 800-1000 test levels before heading into a blast.

Thanks for the replies, those for and against it! I appreciate all feedback.

Well you are 24, you may have screwed things up. I'm 37 and started TRT within the last year. So, I will add that you are younger than me, and committing to TRT Is a big deal, especially at your age. I would try to exhaust all other options at your age, as I did at 37. Meaning, even if you go to TRT doc you should look more into an HPTA restart before committing to TRT. I wouldn't have wanted to deal with this in my early twenties. So, look into an HPTA restart that may work for you. It didn't for me, so I went the way of TRT.

 

[Hypnotix]

Well you are 24, you may have screwed things up. I'm 37 and started TRT within the last year. So, I will add that you are younger than me, and committing to TRT Is a big deal, especially at your age. I would try to exhaust all other options at your age, as I did at 37. Meaning, even if you go to TRT doc you should look more into an HPTA restart before committing to TRT. I wouldn't have wanted to deal with this in my early twenties. So, look into an HPTA restart that may work for you. It didn't for me, so I went the way of TRT.

The pinning twice a week thing doesn't bother me. Not a single bit. During cycle I actually started to enjoy the process. Did it for 3 months.. wasn't bad at all imo.

I need to see where I'm at in a few weeks as I'm still coming out of PCT from my test only cycle. If it's low, I suppose I should try a restart.. but how likely is it that if HCG, Clomid, and Nolvadex didn't get me going post cycle, that a HPTA restart will? Isn't it the same stuff?

 

[Havasu]

The pinning twice a week thing doesn't bother me. Not a single bit. During cycle I actually started to enjoy the process. Did it for 3 months.. wasn't bad at all imo.

I need to see where I'm at in a few weeks as I'm still coming out of PCT from my test only cycle. If it's low, I suppose I should try a restart.. but how likely is it that if HCG, Clomid, and Nolvadex didn't get me going post cycle, that a HPTA restart will? Isn't it the same stuff?

You don't know if you know. BUt, if you're going to do a restart either find a protocol that really seems reliable, or go see specifically a TRT doc and have it prescribed and monitored by them. The thing with a TRT doc is most likely they won't deal with insurance and you'll have to pay out of pocket.

 

[Megatron28]

I moved this out of the TRT forum