Just another intro. AED and HPTA info welcome.

[Mycelium]

34 yrs old. 5' 10" @ 160 roughly 15-17%bf. Epilepsy from head injury (discussed later). Lift 2-4 times a week depending on schedule. Walk about the same. Distances 1.5 - 5 miles depending on scheduel. Eating 2.2-3k calories a day. General healthy eating with lots of salad and veggies (not counted in calories), eggs, peanut butter, venison, lunch meat sandwich, chicken, pork chops, potatoes ect. Lots of various martial arts training from childhood on. Military service. 10 years off and on lifting. 1 cycle @ 400 EQ per WK x 16 weeks no PCT went from 155-172lbs. Epilepsy kicked up and years went by so most gains were gone. Then I looked leaner but think it was stretched over more mass. Weights were 5 times a week as well as martial arts/abs/cardio and fitness. Friday took @ 2 hours including weights, abs and cardio stations (bike, eliptical, jump rope am various drills). Entirely family is lanky. Untrained weight 140-145 lbs. Maintaining 160 takes eating when I'm not even hungry and heavy lifting.

I take Keppra for seizures (previous mentioned closed head injury)and suffer gynocamastia, mood shifts/irritable, lessened erections which are not as hard with lowered ejaculate volume, general loss of sexual desire, loss of appetite, insomnia, currently noticed my testicles enlarged after switching meds. Docs say it ain't so. Wife backs up my observations. I'm here to figure out things myself. Been researching weight training, steroids, drug in general and epilepsy for 10 years.

If you have any information on AED'S and HPTA suppression/interactions I'll take it.

Nice forums and good info out there. See you all on the boards.

 

[Megatron28]

Welcome.

Have you run any blood work to see what is going on with your hormones? If not, check out the link below in my signature. It provides lots of good info, including how to run your own blood work and what blood work to run.

 

[Mycelium]

No blood work recently. I have labs from VA years old. 2011. Total test, FSH, LH and Estrogen. I'll post the levels.

I was in a seizure study this year at the VA and they took several vials of blood so I'm hoping they did my endo levels.

I would like to start a specific thread to keep updated. Have the info in one place for anyone else looking for answers lime me. .

TRT section? Men's General Health seems good after looking.

 

[Mycelium]

TT=5.4 ng/ml
LH=5.2 mIU/ml
FSH=2.3 mIU/ml
"ESTRADI"=36 pg/ml

2011 levels. Copied verbatim from VA records.

 

[Megatron28]

Read the FAQs link in my signature for how to get blood work.

 

[Mycelium]

That's in the plans fo sho! Even at $66 full price it can't be beat. As of now I can't drive for 6 months after last seizure (this morning). Been down and off work since October. $66 and time to drive to the closest clinic is a side thought right now. Family life has been hectic. I'm off the meds now too so I'm just researching for info. Thanks for the replies!

 

[halfwit]

I didn't spend an enormous amount of time looking into this, but it does appear that not only is gynecomastia possible, but so is HPTA suppression. I couldn't find anything specific to your drug, but if it shares common pharmacokinetics with some of the others, it's very likely the cause. Of course, a blood test will confirm.

Hepatic enzyme-inducing AEDs lower the amount of free or biologically active testosterone available to stimulate sexual function; at the same time they increase the serum level of estradiol, which actively inhibits it.

Source

My .02c

 

[Mycelium]

I've been reading on that site for about 2 months now! Pouring over drug profiles and such.

I have been told different things from the doctors. Told not to drink and they will do regular blood work to check me out. Kinda "it don't effect your liver but we check to make sure". I ran out of ideas on it and never googled "Hepatic enzyme-inducing" so thank you for a specific phrase! That quote is exactly what I was looking for and will be getting it saved from the page. I've brought my own info in before on drugs and their side effects!

Searched the net and lead to a study in people with cirrhosis but liver function was effected in the healthy controls as well.


"RESULTS: Dynamic liver function tests revealed a deterioration of liver function. The pharmacokinetics of levetiracetam and its metabolite did not differ between healthy subjects and those with class A or B cirrhosis."

Not up on the forums just yet but I saved the source.

Carbamazepine caused it before also. They said it wasn't likely. I've just refused that medication as well.

I'll have to call the VA hospital again tomorrow. Left on hold from the automated system then to a voice mail today.

Thanks for your .02c! Never did search about AED and sexuality / reproduction. Just gynocamastia and estrogen.

 

[halfwit]

I've been reading on that site for about 2 months now! Pouring over drug profiles and such.

I have been told different things from the doctors. Told not to drink and they will do regular blood work to check me out. Kinda "it don't effect your liver but we check to make sure". I ran out of ideas on it and never googled "Hepatic enzyme-inducing" so thank you for a specific phrase! That quote is exactly what I was looking for and will be getting it saved from the page. I've brought my own info in before on drugs and their side effects!

Searched the net and lead to a study in people with cirrhosis but liver function was effected in the healthy controls as well.


"RESULTS: Dynamic liver function tests revealed a deterioration of liver function. The pharmacokinetics of levetiracetam and its metabolite did not differ between healthy subjects and those with class A or B cirrhosis."

Not up on the forums just yet but I saved the source.

Carbamazepine caused it before also. They said it wasn't likely. I've just refused that medication as well.

I'll have to call the VA hospital again tomorrow. Left on hold from the automated system then to a voice mail today.

Thanks for your .02c! Never did search about AED and sexuality / reproduction. Just gynocamastia and estrogen.

You'll find that the three are very closely tied.

I was on prescription pain killers myself for many years, and doctors didn't know at the time that they destroy leydig cells in the testes, rendering males unable to make testosterone to any great extent. Fifteen years later, reports on the damage caused by opiods has FINALLY started to surface. I can only imagine that things will be the same in this case too. I do certainly wish you the best of luck, and feel free to bounce any ideas you come across here.

 

[Mycelium]

As of now I've been switched to a slow release benzo "Clobazam". I don't think it helps my testosterone but I know they don't cause gyno! I have had clonazapam several times for my seizures.

 

[Mycelium]

Called trying to get labs again today. No go. Have to call the epilepsy clinic at the hospital I stayed in.

I got some from 2013 from my personal copy of my records. A step closer I guess.

4/15/2013
Testost 3.95 ng/ml
LH = 5.8
Estradiol = 30 pg/mL
Estrogen = 109.4 ng/mL

Something like 28% drop in test in 2 years. LH and Estradiol are pretty close. I wasn't able to get the specifics on the estrogen.

Found a couple threads talking about long term benzo use lowering test. Get there when I get there. I'll use the info I find and lab result to plead my case and try to get into the endocrine clinic. Got the studies to back up what I found.

 

[halfwit]

This may seem like a stretch, but I wonder if your head trauma caused primary hypogonadism. As the main method of action in which benzos act is by changing the amount of dopamine released (among a few other tricks), and testosterone greatly impacts the amount of dopamine our bodies can recycle (re-uptake), I ponder if the two are related.

Head trauma is a known cause of primary hypogonadism, and low dopamine production/saturation is a known cause of epilepsy... Just connecting some dots here. I may be way off base, but your LH SCREAMS this to me.

 

[Mycelium]

Possibly. So far there is no visible damage or . . . abnormalities. . . From scans. MRI and MRI with contrast were clean. Gonna get a PET scan but I have to wait till I quit having seizures.

What about my LH? That it's remained the same and my test is dropping?

I've kept getting the "within normal ranges" line. I don't have a baseline. My first endo level were taken because I was complaining about sore nipples, loss of erections and low sex drive blah blah.


Edit: I seem to have "good" test levels otherwise. No labs for that claim just how I feel. As of now I have morning wood, sex drive and the others. Not like I'm 20 again but I keep the wife calling me a horn dog. She bends over to grab a toy off the ground and I'll get aroused and semi stiffy.

 

[halfwit]

Possibly. So far there is no visible damage or . . . abnormalities. . . From scans. MRI and MRI with contrast were clean. Gonna get a PET scan but I have to wait till I quit having seizures.

What about my LH? That it's remained the same and my test is dropping?

I've kept getting the "within normal ranges" line. I don't have a baseline. My first endo level were taken because I was complaining about sore nipples, loss of erections and low sex drive blah blah.


Edit: I seem to have "good" test levels otherwise. No labs for that claim just how I feel. As of now I have morning wood, sex drive and the others. Not like I'm 20 again but I keep the wife calling me a horn dog. She bends over to grab a toy off the ground and I'll get aroused and semi stiffy.

Yes, if your LH is in the upper range, but testosterone is at the bottom (395ng/dL is at the cusp of clinical hypogonadism) - combined with a history of head trauma just makes my spidey senses tingle.

Your lab results will be able to shed some light for sure.

 

[Mycelium]

I found another endocrine entry in my records.. The abbreviation is TSH and was with T3/T4/FT4. Roughly 45% reduction in 4 years. Thyroid Stimulating Hormone.

Quick Google search mentions dopamine and low TSH. My seizures have gotten worse over these years. I'll have to mention all these to my doctor when I talk to him. Tell him I want to track my levels from now on and talk to endocrinology.

TSH
10/2011 = 1.19
9/2012 = 0.93
4/2013 =0.74
4/2015 = 0.66 uIU/ml

 

[halfwit]

I found another endocrine entry in my records.. The abbreviation is TSH and was with T3/T4/FT4. Roughly 45% reduction in 4 years. Thyroid Stimulating Hormone.

Quick Google search mentions dopamine and low TSH. My seizures have gotten worse over these years. I'll have to mention all these to my doctor when I talk to him. Tell him I want to track my levels from now on and talk to endocrinology.

10/2011 9/2012 4/2013 4/2015
TSH 1.19 0.93 0.74 0.66 uIU/ml

Wow! Something really pissed off your pituitary gland. You have lower T3, but a VERY low TSH - which is the OPPOSITE of how it's supposed to function. I'm not completely familiar with the dopamine impact on TSH, but I'm curious; have you ever had an MRI of your pituitary?

Lower test, lower dopamine, and very low TSH just screams to me there's a problem with your HPTA big time.

 

[Mycelium]

I talked with my neurologist/eliptologist today and my ranges are normal, there are variations and blah normal ranges. I stated my case just like I have here and said I want a specific conversation and tests. I have and agreement for the endocrine blood tests. Time will see if I can get my own or schedule them.

As far as medication it's a benzo time release basically. It'll lowery test eventually and it's already low. My original blood test is based on gyno complaint, erection, ect. My first levels are symptoms and are off so where are my baselines? Lower Estradiol first right?

 

[halfwit]

I talked with my neurologist/eliptologist today and my ranges are normal, there are variations and blah normal ranges. I stated my case just like I have here and said I want a specific conversation and tests. I have and agreement for the endocrine blood tests. Time will see if I can get my own or schedule them.

As far as medication it's a benzo time release basically. It'll lowery test eventually and it's already low. My original blood test is based on gyno complaint, erection, ect. My first levels are symptoms and are off so where are my baselines? Lower Estradiol first right?

That's difficult to answer as it's not just an amount of estradiol that can cause the generation of breast tissue, but also the ratio of testosterone to estradiol that can be to blame. Add to that the possibility of potentially having a pituitary that's gone bonkers, and I really don't know how your body would even respond to a SERM or AI to be honest.

A SERM blocks estradiol from attaching at the receptors at specific sites. While this is good at preventing and even reducing breast tissue, it also blocks the hypothalamus from seeing its presence. This in turn generates a gnrh signal to the pituitary to release more LH for testosterone to be created for conversion to estradiol as the hypothalamus thinks you're in desperate need of it.

The problem is that your LH is already pretty high, and I fear that if your pituitary goes into overdrive, either you'll convert a bit more estradiol (bad all around for us, especially in the prostate) and put you in worse shape. Although I suspect you're primary, and really nothing would happen.

I'd want to make sure that bonking your noggin didn't harm your pituitary if it were me. I'd push for an MRI and see what your prolactin looks like as this can happen in the case of abnormalities with the gland. I don't want to use the word tumor, but it is a possibility here too.

Just so many variables that stem from that little guy in your skull. Me, I'd wait for more tests first before attempting anything else. The wait SUCKS, but making a mistake could suck more imo.

 

[Mycelium]

Thanks for stopping by again!

Im pushing the issue of blood test very hard. The wife with my own labs from Megatron's thread as well as the VA hospital. If they wont run my levels the next time I go (july) ill probably be finding a way to get my own sooner.

Saving clinical studies and other things to pushy case and show I've researched my conditions, lab results and the medications actions and side effects. I do get tired of arguing pharmacology and endocrinology with neurologist. "How do I know? I read the clinical studies and have tits!" Haha

On a good note my TSH was checked in April and was 1.29! I was glad to see that. I'll see what they have to say about that. "Natural fluctuations" probably.

On the other side of the coin my nipples are slightly swollen and sore and my libido and erections are down. It got worse once my dose went up. Was 1/2 a pill (5mg clobazam) before bed. Now its 1/2 twice a day. Im also getting acne. Very small and shallow compared to my normal acne/backne. I usually have what seem to be big deep pimples. Red lumps for up to a week before a white head appears and it's a good . . . . . Volume? . . . Of stuff. These new ones are over night and the size of the periods on my phones keyboard. Could be the start of summer/sun and sweating too I guess.

So far no seizures so thats awesome. I am also long and strong. Usually the wife has me struggling. Now Im dishing out what she wants then some. Could also be the start of problems reaching climax I guess. Ill deal with the endo problems as we go. I need my life back! No working, driving, heights and shit got old the first month after my gran mals/generalized tonic clonic spell.

 

[halfwit]

Why wait? If you're developing breast tissue, I'd imagine that you would want to nip that in the bud ASAP. It's much easier to prevent the growth than to reverse it.