Lean WITHOUT mass (sorry)

Hey guys, first ever forum post thingy (very exciting) and I have what I think is a pretty unique set of circumstances - though not THAT unique haha.

Ok so, I was a pretty overweight kid. Lost most of my weight in my late teens (I'm 23), and I've been sitting at a UK size 10 for a good few years now. I have been a bit terrible with my dieting, eating nothing to eating loads but I would say I've made a concerted effort to be healthy and diet for about the past three. I haven't got a bad body, but I have big arms for my size - and a lot of this is muscle that I hate. I know this isn't the place to be saying I want to reduce muscle size but I have nice long slender legs but big blocky shoulders and arms, it's not cool. I'm a personal trainer, I have a biology degree - please don't hold back on the technicalities. Basically I think I have a little more testosterone than most women (small hip to waist even when thin, basically flat chest, bulky upper body), and I want to know how I can offset it as best as possible.

Diet wise, I have IBS so wheat has been out my regular intake for ages. I would say even when I'm not dieting I eat relatively low-carb compared to the standard (no sugar, more veggie than fruit etc). In my head this means I have to be even stricter when I want to go low-carb so I tend to do keto. I do get good results (for as long as I stick to it) but I get awful fatigue. I think I might have some slight metabolic syndrome from the years of abuse. I'm considering carb-cycling to combat this BUT, I see the guys tend to get better muscle building from carb-cycling which is something I'd like to avoid.

I think my main questions are, which diet is best for fat loss forgetting retention of muscle mass, I have enough to last me a lifetime - natural strength of an ox.

And what resistance exercises can I do upper body wise without aggravating my traps or biceps. I want to look willowy. No disrespect to the female builders, I think you guys are awesome but I don't feel comfortable being muscular.

Also, if doing keto/extreme low carb, can I go wild on stuff like heavy cream (sanity) if my body is going to be a so-called fat burning machine. I don't assume this to be true (9 cals per g as well all know) but I've heard of others that just go mental on the fat because it makes no difference.

Long post, any responses are welcomed. Thanks guys. x
 
:wavey:
Hey guys, first ever forum post thingy (very exciting) and I have what I think is a pretty unique set of circumstances - though not THAT unique haha.

Ok so, I was a pretty overweight kid. Lost most of my weight in my late teens (I'm 23), and I've been sitting at a UK size 10 for a good few years now. I have been a bit terrible with my dieting, eating nothing to eating loads but I would say I've made a concerted effort to be healthy and diet for about the past three. I haven't got a bad body, but I have big arms for my size - and a lot of this is muscle that I hate. I know this isn't the place to be saying I want to reduce muscle size but I have nice long slender legs but big blocky shoulders and arms, it's not cool. I'm a personal trainer, I have a biology degree - please don't hold back on the technicalities. Basically I think I have a little more testosterone than most women (small hip to waist even when thin, basically flat chest, bulky upper body), and I want to know how I can offset it as best as possible.

Diet wise, I have IBS so wheat has been out my regular intake for ages. I would say even when I'm not dieting I eat relatively low-carb compared to the standard (no sugar, more veggie than fruit etc). In my head this means I have to be even stricter when I want to go low-carb so I tend to do keto. I do get good results (for as long as I stick to it) but I get awful fatigue. I think I might have some slight metabolic syndrome from the years of abuse. I'm considering carb-cycling to combat this BUT, I see the guys tend to get better muscle building from carb-cycling which is something I'd like to avoid.

I think my main questions are, which diet is best for fat loss forgetting retention of muscle mass, I have enough to last me a lifetime - natural strength of an ox.

And what resistance exercises can I do upper body wise without aggravating my traps or biceps. I want to look willowy. No disrespect to the female builders, I think you guys are awesome but I don't feel comfortable being muscular.

Also, if doing keto/extreme low carb, can I go wild on stuff like heavy cream (sanity) if my body is going to be a so-called fat burning machine. I don't assume this to be true (9 cals per g as well all know) but I've heard of others that just go mental on the fat because it makes no difference.

Long post, any responses are welcomed. Thanks guys. x

Hello Long_Lean_Wannabe ~welcome~ :wavey:
Congrats on your weight loss !

Marathon cardio is the best way to lose muscle, jump on a treadmill and do a medium to high intensity steady state cardio for an extended period of time.
Aim for 45-60 minutes at as fast as rate as you can handle for that period of time.
You have to be careful though, if u loose weight/muscle you'll also be loosing mass in your legs, so you'll still end up looking bulky on top & smaller on the bottom.

Do u workout at all ? if u do, try not to workout arms, shoulders. If you have broad shoulders, it might be due to your frame, if your frame structure is this way, there's not much u can do about it. Except not workout your upper body as much, or u could Lift heavy for low reps and don't go to failure.

Also u could try & bulk your legs & gain some mass, this way you will have better body proportion. But if your not looking to look muscular, I don't know this will be something u want to do.

As far as diet goes, eventhou this is the opposite of what members are trying to aim in this forum, in your case, make sure you go into your workout with an empty stomach and don't eat a meal right after exercising…wait at least 1-2 hours before eating anything.
This is what most make sure they don't do to avoid muscle loss.

You can do carb cycling, Keto (or any low cal diet) which in combination with long cardio can cause muscle loss.

Good luck to u :)
 
Thank you very much for your efforts there :) I do work-out, absolutely loads lol. I enjoy doing weights because I can set myself circuits and push myself (live with non-gym bunnies and have never had a gym partner). I have TRX bands - I'm pretty dedicated to working out but like you say I can't help but think it's bulking me.

You mentioned low reps heavy; I thought about strength training but it seems risky surely, if I have the disposition for a bulky upper body? I'm not Arnie, just more muscular than I personally feel comfortable with. There's a decent amount of fat storage there too, don't get me wrong, I've always stored fat there. I pretty much need to just get my body fat way down for it to eventually come off. I know muscle building is a good way to melt the fat away without spending houurrrs at the gym - I find it takes ages to get back in the long-distance swing, switching off etc.

I appreciate the suggestion but I definitely don't want to even out by making my legs big - my legs are substantial, but because they're long they turn out as lean. (I've just realised why people copy and paste above their reply) - I apologise if I haven't replied to any other points.

Thanks for the confirmation about the diet, sadly thats pretty much what I expected (keto/CC in combination with long slow duration). I heard thats it's better to go longer and slower for fat burning, keeping your heart rate at around 75% (hiking, brisk walking) for a few hours so your cortisol levels don't get to high (stress and fat storage) apparently is a fat melter. I did it just a few times and did notice a genuine difference.
 
Hi,

One thing I'd add is that our body proportions are genetic and some things may need to just be accepted. I'm black and have a typical black girls butt, no matter how small I get it still looks big in comparison to my body. It's genetic so no amount of exercise, cardio diet etc will change what my parents gave me. I can either look in shape or not. So your body shape may not change because it's how you're hardwired to look to a degree. You can make the best of it with a decent diet, low weighted exercises and cardio. Self acceptance is key here. You could build up other parts of your body to change the overall look, that bit is up to you.

Good luck.
 
to any other points.

Thanks for the confirmation about the diet, sadly thats pretty much what I expected (keto/CC in combination with long slow duration). I heard thats it's better to go longer and slower for fat burning, keeping your heart rate at around 75% (hiking, brisk walking) for a few hours so your cortisol levels don't get to high (stress and fat storage) apparently is a fat melter. I did it just a few times and did notice a genuine difference.

Lots of people do long slow cardio to preserve muscle so a higher intensity would most likely help you to lose some lean mass. I hadn't seen Mrs P's answer to you in the above post so I'm echoing her words. Could you post a picture? Lots of people particularly women think their extra bulk is muscle, when it really could be fat (no disrespect) but I think for some women it's easier to swallow if the extra weight on them could be blamed as being muscle (or water weight) when in reality it is just fat. If that is the case then diet is the main thing to change composition.

Hope you reach your goals.
 
Thank you very much for your efforts there :) I do work-out, absolutely loads lol. I enjoy doing weights because I can set myself circuits and push myself (live with non-gym bunnies and have never had a gym partner). I have TRX bands - I'm pretty dedicated to working out but like you say I can't help but think it's bulking me.

You mentioned low reps heavy; I thought about strength training but it seems risky surely, if I have the disposition for a bulky upper body? I'm not Arnie, just more muscular than I personally feel comfortable with. There's a decent amount of fat storage there too, don't get me wrong, I've always stored fat there. I pretty much need to just get my body fat way down for it to eventually come off. I know muscle building is a good way to melt the fat away without spending houurrrs at the gym - I find it takes ages to get back in the long-distance swing, switching off etc.

I appreciate the suggestion but I definitely don't want to even out by making my legs big - my legs are substantial, but because they're long they turn out as lean. (I've just realised why people copy and paste above their reply) - I apologise if I haven't replied to any other points.

Thanks for the confirmation about the diet, sadly thats pretty much what I expected (keto/CC in combination with long slow duration). I heard thats it's better to go longer and slower for fat burning, keeping your heart rate at around 75% (hiking, brisk walking) for a few hours so your cortisol levels don't get to high (stress and fat storage) apparently is a fat melter. I did it just a few times and did notice a genuine difference.

I think if you have a good amount of fat in your upper body, then your diet/cardio is what's going to help u loose the fat.

What cardio intensity is the best for fat loss, I've read different suggestions to that,
During low-intensity aerobic exercise, your body does use fat as its primary fuel source. As you get closer to your breaking point, your body starts using a smaller percentage of fat and a larger percentage of carbohydrates, (another fuel source) However, picking up the pace allows you to burn more total calories, as well as more fat calories.

When I do high intesity cardio, I end up burning more cals (therefore more fat cals than low intensity)
But ofcourse if yoru not used to doing this & are just starting out, u might not be able to sustain a fast enough pace to make it worth while, so going slower will allow u to do it for longer & will be more benefitial.

I say keep your diet in check & do cardio 4-5X a week, see what results u get.

Hope u achive what your looking for Girl :)

Hi,

One thing I'd add is that our body proportions are genetic and some things may need to just be accepted. I'm black and have a typical black girls butt, no matter how small I get it still looks big in comparison to my body. It's genetic so no amount of exercise, cardio diet etc will change what my parents gave me. I can either look in shape or not. So your body shape may not change because it's how you're hardwired to look to a degree. You can make the best of it with a decent diet, low weighted exercises and cardio. Self acceptance is key here. You could build up other parts of your body to change the overall look, that bit is up to you.

Good luck.

I agree with you here Detour, There are definitely things we cannot change about our bodies, don't matter how hard we try.
I mean, u can really mold it to a certain degree & can manipulate it to some degree, but your shape/frame won't change much, it will just improve if your fit.

I naturally have broad shoulders, (for a women) I actually like it thou, but I know no matter what I do I won't ever have small shoulders, if I loose weight, I would just end up having "broad bonny shoulders".

I do agree us women sometimes have a "hardtime"accepting certain parts of our bodies, we've all probably been there at some point in our lives, lol
I've learn to accept, but work hard on improving what I can.

p.s Detour (You look amazing & you got a great :bootyshak it's definitely a good thing to embrace the booty Girl ......lol)
 
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Not trying to be disrespectful Detour but that ass is banging !! I would be thanking your parents everyday !!
 
Sounds to me that you may also want to try yoga. They have nice tone that you'd be looking for. I would recommend hot power yoga if you can find it in your area.
 
I think if you have a good amount of fat in your upper body, then your diet/cardio is what's going to help u loose the fat.

What cardio intensity is the best for fat loss, I've read different suggestions to that,
During low-intensity aerobic exercise, your body does use fat as its primary fuel source. As you get closer to your breaking point, your body starts using a smaller percentage of fat and a larger percentage of carbohydrates, (another fuel source) However, picking up the pace allows you to burn more total calories, as well as more fat calories.

When I do high intesity cardio, I end up burning more cals (therefore more fat cals than low intensity)
But ofcourse if yoru not used to doing this & are just starting out, u might not be able to sustain a fast enough pace to make it worth while, so going slower will allow u to do it for longer & will be more benefitial.

I say keep your diet in check & do cardio 4-5X a week, see what results u get.

Hope u achive what your looking for Girl :)

Thanks very much for this - I think I'm going to try and do an hour a day with one or two days strength training as well because I quite simply can't run every day I'd want to kill myself - I find using the 'random' setting on the treadmill and messing about with the pace to keep your heart rate in one place, pretty fun. I need a timetable. And to just stick to my damn diet. I think since I lost the major part of the weight and I'm pretty slim as it is, I need a jump start motivationally to put the effort back into dieting. Not smoking weed would probably help... lol

I agree with you here Detour, There are definitely things we cannot change about our bodies, don't matter how hard we try.
I mean, u can really mold it to a certain degree & can manipulate it to some degree, but your shape/frame won't change much, it will just improve if your fit.

I naturally have broad shoulders, (for a women) I actually like it thou, but I know no matter what I do I won't ever have small shoulders, if I loose weight, I would just end up having "broad bonny shoulders".

I do agree us women sometimes have a "hardtime"accepting certain parts of our bodies, we've all probably been there at some point in our lives, lol
I've learn to accept, but work hard on improving what I can.

p.s Detour (You look amazing & you got a great :bootyshak it's definitely a good thing to embrace the booty Girl ......lol)

As for this, haha. Yes Detour you have a wonderful derrière. I don't have a picture to post but I'm certain nobody here would think I'm bulky (just as you question my perception, I question you guys', what's 'healthy' to you is a 'bit big' FOR me... only FOR me, on my body) I'm definitely not overly muscular. I did mention in my first or second post that the thing with my arms IS mostly fat, I have no delusions. It's just the last place my weight comes off :( very sad face.

That's cool though about the carb-cycling and cardio Mrs P, thanks for the info. I am starting low-carb again today, I'll post in a couple of weeks to see if much has changed :)

I really should have quoted the person that mentioned yoga - I am already a massive yoga fan but haven't managed to make it to a class yet (home dvds etc) just because I haven't had the money *sob sob*, hopefully that will all change soon!

Thanks for all the input guys, much appreciated :-*

x
 
Lol thank you everybody, I certainly have learnt to accept my bumper and i'm glad I have it :)

OP, everyone has their ideals and you shouldn't feel bad for yours being one that's small and lean rather than muscular. I think you shouldn't assume the ladies on here are large and muscular just because it's ology, I'd say a lot of women prefer being lean and regular size rather than large and muscular. I'm 5'8.5" and on a good day 5'9" ;) my weight is normally 135-140lbs, not big at all especially for my height and my waist is around 26 inches, and a UK size 8 - don't know the US size equivalent. The average UK size is a 12 so I'm below average, but just have an athletic body. An athletic body has a different shape for eg: broad shoulders, wider lats, small waist, fuller quads, compared to non exercising counterparts.

I hope you find what works for you and also accept your genetic shape. Keep things simple and stick with it. Staying consitent is what allows you to see notable changes.

G'luck ;)
 
Not nit picking.. But your original post said your arms were mostly muscle which you hate, but your latest one says your arms are mostly fat. Which one is it?
 
As for this, haha. Yes Detour you have a wonderful derrière. I don't have a picture to post but I'm certain nobody here would think I'm bulky (just as you question my perception, I question you guys', what's 'healthy' to you is a 'bit big' FOR me... only FOR me, on my body) I'm definitely not overly muscular. I did mention in my first or second post that the thing with my arms IS mostly fat, I have no delusions. It's just the last place my weight comes off :( very sad face.

That's cool though about the carb-cycling and cardio Mrs P, thanks for the info. I am starting low-carb again today, I'll post in a couple of weeks to see if much has changed :)

I really should have quoted the person that mentioned yoga - I am already a massive yoga fan but haven't managed to make it to a class yet (home dvds etc) just because I haven't had the money *sob sob*, hopefully that will all change soon!

Thanks for all the input guys, much appreciated :-*

x

Your welcome girl,

For me Carb cycling works best when leaning out.
I'm carb sensitive, so I really have to watch the amount of carbs I eat, ofcouse I do allow myself to sin from time to time ..lol :wiggle:

And don't worry, keep working hard, and focus on your acomplishments thus far :)

You and only you can make yourself happy, so, if u don't like the muscular look, it's totally fine, I myself like to be tonned & have some definition, but I don't like to be overly muscular either, I like to looking feminine. ;)

Looking forward to hearing how it goes for u.

Keep us posted ~
Take care~ :wavey:
 
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