Low T bodybuilding male natty

T

test2low

New member
Hi Guys,

I have been bodybuilding since 17 I am now 22 and have recently got back into the gym after a 2 year rest and recovery after sickness.
I have been back at the gym for 6 months but recent blood tests of testosterone have reviled levels of 11.1, 14.4 and 9.6nmol/L my doctor has not tested for free test but says my test levels are to low for 22yr old male he advised me to talk to my specialist ( who does not specialise in testosterone ) who did do free test and also test but says its right on boarder line wether I can get trt or not.

I am doing everything I can to maximize test levels but still comes in with poor results right on boarder line.
I would be taking a trt course and have high amounts of test than poor test levels as like all of us we are trying to get the most out of ourselves.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do?

I might be thinking irrational but is it possible to lower my free test / test by lack of sleep maybe or even rather than intense gym sessions dragging it out to hour to hour 15 for a week then taking blood tests?

Or is it even possible to put myself on a trt cycle in Australia through a clinic?

All thoughts appreciated , Thanks
 
1. Before we discuss numbers, the most important question your doctors and YOU should be asking is how do YOU feel? Something prompted you to ask to have your hormones tested, what was it? You mention two words that come across as red flags to most: bodybuilding and "cycle". Neither of which have anything to do with TRT. TRT is intended to replace your natural production of hormones, not give you supraphysiological values of them.

2. You need to get your LH/FSH looked at first. This will tell you and your doctors if there is something else going on that could be causing such low levels. (For us folks in the US: 320.15ng/dL, 415.32ng/dL, and 276.88ng/dL.) If you have low values of LH/FSH, this is likely a secondary form of hypogonadism (borderline for the first two values) where something else is causing your pituitary gland to secrete less hormone than it is intended to.

3. Intentionally dragging levels down lower may not be the answer here. If you have a legitimate issue, I'd look into that first. There are many causes for low T; I'd want to make sure there wasn't a growth on my pituitary gland for example that may or may not be malignant before I masked the symptoms with exogenous testosterone. If you get test results back showing that either you're producing enough LH to signal your testes to make ample hormone or if your doctors have been able to rule out the possibility of tumors/treatable issues - THEN you can look at seeing what your options are. Don't jump into this because you want to get "swole".

4. You're in for a rough ride due to your age. I'm not sure exactly how they are in AU, but I know here in the US, younger guys have a very hard time being prescribed TRT unless there is a significant issue going on such as physically missing parts of your HPTA or having a genetic defect. You definitely need to reevaluate your reasons for seeking treatment as while bodybuilding may be important to you; your health is far more important in the long term.

Like I said earlier, this isn't a "cycle". It is for life. Sure, some guys have been able to "restart" their HPTA after being on exogenous testosterone for some time, but it becomes harder and harder the longer you've been on. I was reading an article the other day about how hypogonadism needs to be diagnosed before treatment begins as TRT inevitably will cause secondary hypogonadism by putting the pituitary gland to "sleep". I'll dig around to see if I can still find it, but I think you get my point.

My .02c :)
 
Sorry about that poor wording I didn't mean cycle as on off and I understand it is a life long program.

The reason behind having my levels checked was because I lost a testical and mandatory check ups are to have my test levels checked to see if the other one is keeping up.

My motivation is sky high but that's never been an issue. I am often tired if I do not get 8 hours + sleep I get anxiety because I am so tired and feel so lethargic. my libido is not as it used to be either.
Thanks
 
solid as usual hw
halfwit said:
1. Before we discuss numbers, the most important question your doctors and YOU should be asking is how do YOU feel? Something prompted you to ask to have your hormones tested, what was it? You mention two words that come across as red flags to most: bodybuilding and "cycle". Neither of which have anything to do with TRT. TRT is intended to replace your natural production of hormones, not give you supraphysiological values of them.

2. You need to get your LH/FSH looked at first. This will tell you and your doctors if there is something else going on that could be causing such low levels. (For us folks in the US: 320.15ng/dL, 415.32ng/dL, and 276.88ng/dL.) If you have low values of LH/FSH, this is likely a secondary form of hypogonadism (borderline for the first two values) where something else is causing your pituitary gland to secrete less hormone than it is intended to.

3. Intentionally dragging levels down lower may not be the answer here. If you have a legitimate issue, I'd look into that first. There are many causes for low T; I'd want to make sure there wasn't a growth on my pituitary gland for example that may or may not be malignant before I masked the symptoms with exogenous testosterone. If you get test results back showing that either you're producing enough LH to signal your testes to make ample hormone or if your doctors have been able to rule out the possibility of tumors/treatable issues - THEN you can look at seeing what your options are. Don't jump into this because you want to get "swole".

4. You're in for a rough ride due to your age. I'm not sure exactly how they are in AU, but I know here in the US, younger guys have a very hard time being prescribed TRT unless there is a significant issue going on such as physically missing parts of your HPTA or having a genetic defect. You definitely need to reevaluate your reasons for seeking treatment as while bodybuilding may be important to you; your health is far more important in the long term.

Like I said earlier, this isn't a "cycle". It is for life. Sure, some guys have been able to "restart" their HPTA after being on exogenous testosterone for some time, but it becomes harder and harder the longer you've been on. I was reading an article the other day about how hypogonadism needs to be diagnosed before treatment begins as TRT inevitably will cause secondary hypogonadism by putting the pituitary gland to "sleep". I'll dig around to see if I can still find it, but I think you get my point.

My .02c :)
Click to expand...
 
test2low said:
Sorry about that poor wording I didn't mean cycle as on off and I understand it is a life long program.

The reason behind having my levels checked was because I lost a testical and mandatory check ups are to have my test levels checked to see if the other one is keeping up.

My motivation is sky high but that's never been an issue. I am often tired if I do not get 8 hours + sleep I get anxiety because I am so tired and feel so lethargic. my libido is not as it used to be either.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Having a single testicle would most certainly qualify in my opinion as a reason to have them investigate further. Has the "specialist" indicated that they were going to proceed any further with treatment, or do they want to retest at a later time? Feeling like crap is most certainly a symptom that shouldn't be overlooked. I think if you can rule out (for sure) any secondary causes of your low values of T; you're better off in the long run regardless if you end up on TRT for life or not. Testicular trauma is usually (in my experience conversing with docs) a pretty high indicator of primary hypogonadism, but they should still test LH/FSH to verify.

I just wanted to make sure you understood that it is for life as we do see many younger guys hopping in this forum thinking it's an easy way to score pharmaceutical grade testosterone for cycling purposes. It's clear now based on your reply that you do not fit into that category. In the future, be sure to avoid the words: bodybuilding, muscles, endurance, performance, weight loss, weight gain or athletics when you talk to your doctors. I'm far more open minded than the docs I've met, and even I jumped to that conclusion.

I do wish you the best of luck, and if you have any questions - please feel free to ask. We have plenty of guys here that have been on TRT for some time and even some in situations similar to yours. :)

3J said:
solid as usual hw
Click to expand...
Thanks man. :)
 
test2low, where abouts are you in Aus? I might be able to point you in the right direction re a consultation with a good endo.
 
Hi Guys,

Thanks for the replies, yeah more tests to be done but one doctor has said it was to low and was going to refer me to get trt but wanted to check with my oncologist who did a testosterone + free test blood sample. I do not have the results for this one as I only got to speak to nurse on the phone and I felt like a pest asking her to double check what the levels where.
Does anyone know the level of what your testosterone is required to be put on a trt program in AUS and to also answer ratas question I live in Tas.

I may book an appointment and see if they can do this LH/FSH test as well and ill be sure to stay away from those words. thanks for the help again!
 
Sounds good man, let us know how it goes! Unfortunately I have no idea what the range they use in Australia is for TRT. :(
 
I agree with half-wit, don't mention anything about performance enhancement, bodybuilding, strength etc. The docs might get the wrong idea. It's a very sensitive issue.
 
Black Beard said:
I agree with half-wit, don't mention anything about performance enhancement, bodybuilding, strength etc. The docs might get the wrong idea. It's a very sensitive issue.
Click to expand...

This is very true BUT there is definitely the exception. The one I was referring to is very much pro strength/bodybuilding athletes and is quite knowledgeable. It's a shame the OP's in Tasmania as this doctor is in Victoria. For example two of my friends see him and they're both on TRT, one is even prescribed Anavar daily. Everything is made in a compounding pharmacy, obtained by script and all is above board. I'd take this route but I'm single and don't have kids yet. They're both dads and don't plan on having any more. As to the level one's testosterone must be before they can go on TRT here in Australia, I'm not sure. I'm sure there are too many external factors and variables to consider based on the individual being treated (or potentially treated) for there to be a nominated level.
 
halfwit said:
1. Before we discuss numbers, the most important question your doctors and YOU should be asking is how do YOU feel? Something prompted you to ask to have your hormones tested, what was it? You mention two words that come across as red flags to most: bodybuilding and "cycle". Neither of which have anything to do with TRT. TRT is intended to replace your natural production of hormones, not give you supraphysiological values of them.

2. You need to get your LH/FSH looked at first. This will tell you and your doctors if there is something else going on that could be causing such low levels. (For us folks in the US: 320.15ng/dL, 415.32ng/dL, and 276.88ng/dL.) If you have low values of LH/FSH, this is likely a secondary form of hypogonadism (borderline for the first two values) where something else is causing your pituitary gland to secrete less hormone than it is intended to.

3. Intentionally dragging levels down lower may not be the answer here. If you have a legitimate issue, I'd look into that first. There are many causes for low T; I'd want to make sure there wasn't a growth on my pituitary gland for example that may or may not be malignant before I masked the symptoms with exogenous testosterone. If you get test results back showing that either you're producing enough LH to signal your testes to make ample hormone or if your doctors have been able to rule out the possibility of tumors/treatable issues - THEN you can look at seeing what your options are. Don't jump into this because you want to get "swole".

4. You're in for a rough ride due to your age. I'm not sure exactly how they are in AU, but I know here in the US, younger guys have a very hard time being prescribed TRT unless there is a significant issue going on such as physically missing parts of your HPTA or having a genetic defect. You definitely need to reevaluate your reasons for seeking treatment as while bodybuilding may be important to you; your health is far more important in the long term.

Like I said earlier, this isn't a "cycle". It is for life. Sure, some guys have been able to "restart" their HPTA after being on exogenous testosterone for some time, but it becomes harder and harder the longer you've been on. I was reading an article the other day about how hypogonadism needs to be diagnosed before treatment begins as TRT inevitably will cause secondary hypogonadism by putting the pituitary gland to "sleep". I'll dig around to see if I can still find it, but I think you get my point.

My .02c :)
Click to expand...

Not just pituitary goes to sleep. The testes as well are negatively effected during continuous suppression. Good post.
 
Black Beard said:
I agree with half-wit, don't mention anything about performance enhancement, bodybuilding, strength etc. The docs might get the wrong idea. It's a very sensitive issue.
Click to expand...

sometimes not even saying anything is not the cause. If you look like you are active/ "workout". They take it the wrong way too.
Good post though.
 
test2low said:
Does anyone know the level of what your testosterone is required to be put on a trt program in AUS and to also answer ratas question I live in Tas.
Click to expand...
Generally to qualify for PBS prescribed testosterone in Australia you need two morning tests of total testosterone at lower than 8nmol.

Check out this link: https://andrologyaustralia.org/wp-content/uploads/clinical-summary-guide04_May2010.pdf
 
Black Beard said:
I agree with half-wit, don't mention anything about performance enhancement, bodybuilding, strength etc. The docs might get the wrong idea. It's a very sensitive issue.
Click to expand...
Totally agree. I feel my endo prejudged me due to me mentioning my gym/training.
 
Healthcare professionals are supposed to throw away their own preconceived notions and opinions and do what is best for their patients, period. Anything else is unethical.
 
Black Beard said:
Healthcare professionals are supposed to throw away their own preconceived notions and opinions and do what is best for their patients, period. Anything else is unethical.
Click to expand...

In a perfect world but this is not always the case some docs are dicks.
 
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