Low Test - High E2 - Will this help?

[Smoke84]

Okay, long story short; I'm 26, have virtually no libido, and since 17, and working out, have not been able to put on any gains.

I've been reading up on bodybuilding for years, so I have some idea of how this all works.

Anyways, I'm skinny, but have a massive gut, it's worse than a typical man's beer belly, and I don't even drink or eat unhealthy. I eat pretty clean, and tend to avoid junk food, etc.

Now, this is going to sound stupid, but please stay with me here, I think I know what the culprit is; but, it's almost as if, my body is not burning calories properly. Let me explain... I've been eating a fairly low amount of calories every day, nothing dangerously low, about 1100 calories a day. My goal is basically to shed body fat at this point anyways.

Well, my weight does not budge. I can pig out, it won't budge, I can not eat a single thing, it won't budge, etc.

Started to suspect my problem is endocrine related, and go the following results:

my testicular volume is 6-8 ML, which is pathetically small I just discovered, and may be related to a genetic condition.

My E2 was at 62 PG/ML (or 220 PMOL, canadian units)
Free Test was 1.23 NG/DL or 40+ PMOL
LH and FSH looked normal around 4 and 5.

I've never been able to put on any muscle, and I am sincere when I say that I've put in a real effort, too. I've done the dieting, the proper form, the proper amount of weights and sets, but am never able to put on any gains.

At this point, I'm fairly sure it's due to the non-existant test in combination with high E2. yes, I am very sensitive, and it pisses me off, but at least now I know why. I'm constantly sore, and I have not been working out lately due to changes with work and etc.

Anyways, I'm 99% sure I have hypogonadism at this point. All the signs point to it. Waiting to be reffered to an endo.

Now, with all that being said, would taking a dose of 500 mg (once a week) of Sustanon (sust) in combination with anastrozonol (0.5 mg twice a week), allow me to shed body fat and pack on real muscle? I've tried the natural route, and am convinced that, that is not the path for someone like myself. Any info any of you have is greatly appreciated.

P.S - Yes, I bloat like a motherfucker, no matter what I eat. I can eat the most bland and boring healthy shit and I'll bloat just as bad as if I were to eat something completely bad for you. Anyways, any advice is really appreciated. Thanks.

Apologies if I've broken any rules. I'm new to this board, and a little desperate as well.

 

[BigFella]

Smoke: Welcome! And congratulations on doing the work to figure out what the problem is.

You are so lucky! Your life is just about to be transformed.

First: Go to the diet forum and hook up with3J. You know nothing about diet. You have proved it in your post - you cannot be healthy and lose weight at 1100 cals/day. And that's the diet sorted.

Second: Doctors know nothing. Endos know nothing. As a matter of fact every so called specialist you will meet in your life knows nothing. I'm in business, and after about ten years of taking advice from legal and accounting guys - from the top firms - I now learn everything I need to know BEFORE I see them.

Third: Get excited about this. Your life is going to be so much better - and you are going to be in control. So much more satisfying than going to see a bloody doctor and having them in control of your life.

Fourth: This is the start of your learning about how to treat yourself, and this is a lot of fun. You don't need to stray far from this board, but get deep into research papers too - they aren't hard to read, but remember to read between the lines, and go to the data, not just the conclusions. (And check who the researcher is paid by . . . )

Fifth: Testosterone is Testosterone, whether is it so-called "bio-identical" T in a cream, patch or gel, or is has had an ester attached. The reason for the latter is that T has a half-life of hours (it varies, but between one and ten on average) and so an ester is attached to make it soluble in oil, so that you can inject a "depot" of oil containing T which is then absorbed over a far longer period.

Sixth: I reckon you are spot on with your diagnosis, and no one with T that low and E that high can do anything physical and see any gains. So don't blame yourself one bit. And if you've been able to occasionally push through the lethargy and work out in the condition you are in, then wait till you get some T into you.

So:

Pretty much any injectable T is fine for your purpose - to transform your life. As I said the T is the same. but you have to self- inject, at least twice a week, otherwise your T levels will peak and drop and will vary (if you doctor prescribes the once per three week Sustanon (sust) cycle) by about a factor of five over the three weeks.

You will also need some Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to see if you can get your balls working, and you will absolutely, definitely need an aromatise inhibitor, otherwise you'll just convert all that T into E.

And I reckon you'll get stacks of help here.

Again, welcome.

 

[IMT staff]

What was your cortisol?

 

[riprockwell]

I am curious about your Cortisol number as well. Have you also tested your thyroid?? Lastly, sometimes bloating/inflammation is a sign of an allergy. It is possible that you may have a gluten allergy.

 

[IMT staff]

I am curious about your Cortisol number as well. Have you also tested your thyroid?? Lastly, sometimes bloating/inflammation is a sign of an allergy. It is possible that you may have a gluten allergy.

Whats up Rip! Nice to see you posting here

 

[Smoke84]

Smoke: Welcome! And congratulations on doing the work to figure out what the problem is.

You are so lucky! Your life is just about to be transformed.

First: Go to the diet forum and hook up with3J. You know nothing about diet. You have proved it in your post - you cannot be healthy and lose weight at 1100 cals/day. And that's the diet sorted.

Second: Doctors know nothing. Endos know nothing. As a matter of fact every so called specialist you will meet in your life knows nothing. I'm in business, and after about ten years of taking advice from legal and accounting guys - from the top firms - I now learn everything I need to know BEFORE I see them.

Third: Get excited about this. Your life is going to be so much better - and you are going to be in control. So much more satisfying than going to see a bloody doctor and having them in control of your life.

Fourth: This is the start of your learning about how to treat yourself, and this is a lot of fun. You don't need to stray far from this board, but get deep into research papers too - they aren't hard to read, but remember to read between the lines, and go to the data, not just the conclusions. (And check who the researcher is paid by . . . )

Fifth: Testosterone is Testosterone, whether is it so-called "bio-identical" T in a cream, patch or gel, or is has had an ester attached. The reason for the latter is that T has a half-life of hours (it varies, but between one and ten on average) and so an ester is attached to make it soluble in oil, so that you can inject a "depot" of oil containing T which is then absorbed over a far longer period.

Sixth: I reckon you are spot on with your diagnosis, and no one with T that low and E that high can do anything physical and see any gains. So don't blame yourself one bit. And if you've been able to occasionally push through the lethargy and work out in the condition you are in, then wait till you get some T into you.

So:

Pretty much any injectable T is fine for your purpose - to transform your life. As I said the T is the same. but you have to self- inject, at least twice a week, otherwise your T levels will peak and drop and will vary (if you doctor prescribes the once per three week Sustanon (sust) cycle) by about a factor of five over the three weeks.

You will also need some Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to see if you can get your balls working, and you will absolutely, definitely need an aromatise inhibitor, otherwise you'll just convert all that T into E.

And I reckon you'll get stacks of help here.

Again, welcome.

Hi There,

Thank you for the long and detailed response, Bigfella! I'm glad you mentioned the research papers; That's actually how I started to draw some conclusions as to what's going on with me. I suspect I have XXY Mosaicism, but I won't know for sure until the doctor orders a FISH test, and sometimes, these doctors refuse to carry out testing because it's expensive, and also if they don't think you have a genetic condition as well.

I do not know what my cortisol levels are; is it something that fluctuates a lot, or can I get the test at any time? Can I get some kind of machine that will give me blood values instead of having to go to labs? I know there are hematology machines but they can be quite expensive, from upwards to 2K or more. But, if I do indeed have to use steroids for the rest of my life, I wouldn't mind investing in one.

Anyways, I did the research paper thing, everything with XXY correlated with what I have been going through for years now, and at this point, I am anxious to start the Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT). My girlfriend is afraid it will change me, but I think it will change myself for the better anyways. She's afraid that it will go to my head, and that I will leave her or something. Have you encountered a problem like that in any of your relationships? I don't think it will negatively impact mine, if anything, I think it would improve the sex life even further. It's interesting because, although I barely have any kind of a sex drive these days, my girlfriend can physically stimulate me and then we get going, but because of the reduced sex drive, and reduced penile sensitivity (possible indicator of diabetes, another xxy-prone problem), I can keep on going, which she loves, but it makes me feel fucked up because most guys will cum within like 15 minutes or less. So it's a good thing and a bad thing at the same time because I'm sure I could enjoy sex MUCH more than I currently do.

But yeah, I have constant depression, mood swings, and do not feel like the average 26 year old; it's horrible. I feel 'empty' if that makes sense, and I'm hoping that the t and AI's will wake me up.

Will Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) work, though? If I indeed do have hypogonadism, isn't it possible that the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) wouldn't do much? I'm still willing to try, though, because at this point, like I said earlier, I'm desperate. I will definitely share my findings with all of you just so that it hopefully benefits someone out there going through a similiar situation. Thanks for the kind welcome

 

[corvettels3]

Your best bet is to stop guessing and hook up with our board sponsor..

 

[BigFella]

Your best bet is to stop guessing and hook up with our board sponsor..

Corvette has a point. I haven't used the board sponsor because I'm in Australia and we've got a damn good health system, so once you pass the test (actually, fail it twice - two numbers below 8.0) then everything is covered. Are you in Canada? I get the impression you are, maybe your system is similar to ours and the "correct channels" are the way to go, rather than the US-based supplier.

The reason I put in the time on the reply is that it appeared that you were doing the work, and that's confirmed.

You brought up something interesting, and very human: fear of change. Any change. We all have our identity, and changing something in our lives messes with that, and that makes us uncomfortable. It doesn't matter that it is change for the better. Us humans will generally do anything to drag ourselves back.

So it looks like you know you have a problem, it is fixable, but now you're getting cold feet. What if my girlfriend doesn't like the new me? What if I can't last as long during sex?

How about: "This is going to be a hell of a ride! I'm going to change, and that will be really hard, because any change is hard, but oh boy it will be worth it!"

I believe you 100% when you say you've been trying to work out and you've seen no gains. So you have learned something that few people learn - how to push yourself really hard when doing that is really, really hard, and when you get little positive feedback. That means you have a huge advantage over most people - most people quit when the going gets tough. You have already learned how to go hard when it is hard.

When you go to your doctor tell him up front that you have done the research, and KNOW that you know more about you than he does. That puts you in a position of power - when he says something you can immediately ask him to justify it, and when he can't you tell him that you understand that it's hard to keep up with the research, but luckily you've been doing it so you can go on this journey together. That way you're on the same side, and you need the doctor on your side.

Good luck. Keep reading and learning. I've been on T cream for six months, hopefully moving to injections this week. I'm learning too. And I will put large lumps of money on my knowing more about this than 99% of doctors and 95% of endos - because it means so much to me. (And I have experienced how little the professionals really know.)

Will Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) work? I don't know, but I know it is fairly benign, so you are very unlikely to do any damage!

You feel empty now. You won't in the near future.

Oh yes: keep a journal. I only really know how far I have come when I go back and look at mine.

 

[Smoke84]

Corvette has a point. I haven't used the board sponsor because I'm in Australia and we've got a damn good health system, so once you pass the test (actually, fail it twice - two numbers below 8.0) then everything is covered. Are you in Canada? I get the impression you are, maybe your system is similar to ours and the "correct channels" are the way to go, rather than the US-based supplier.

The reason I put in the time on the reply is that it appeared that you were doing the work, and that's confirmed.

You brought up something interesting, and very human: fear of change. Any change. We all have our identity, and changing something in our lives messes with that, and that makes us uncomfortable. It doesn't matter that it is change for the better. Us humans will generally do anything to drag ourselves back.

So it looks like you know you have a problem, it is fixable, but now you're getting cold feet. What if my girlfriend doesn't like the new me? What if I can't last as long during sex?

How about: "This is going to be a hell of a ride! I'm going to change, and that will be really hard, because any change is hard, but oh boy it will be worth it!"

I believe you 100% when you say you've been trying to work out and you've seen no gains. So you have learned something that few people learn - how to push yourself really hard when doing that is really, really hard, and when you get little positive feedback. That means you have a huge advantage over most people - most people quit when the going gets tough. You have already learned how to go hard when it is hard.

When you go to your doctor tell him up front that you have done the research, and KNOW that you know more about you than he does. That puts you in a position of power - when he says something you can immediately ask him to justify it, and when he can't you tell him that you understand that it's hard to keep up with the research, but luckily you've been doing it so you can go on this journey together. That way you're on the same side, and you need the doctor on your side.

Good luck. Keep reading and learning. I've been on T cream for six months, hopefully moving to injections this week. I'm learning too. And I will put large lumps of money on my knowing more about this than 99% of doctors and 95% of endos - because it means so much to me. (And I have experienced how little the professionals really know.)

Will Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) work? I don't know, but I know it is fairly benign, so you are very unlikely to do any damage!

You feel empty now. You won't in the near future.

Oh yes: keep a journal. I only really know how far I have come when I go back and look at mine.

Thank you so much for the response! Yes, change is always unsettling, but you are right, and I am excited at the same time, because God only knows I've been waiting for a long time to do something about these issues.

I am indeed from Canada, but I'm afraid that if I do get prescribed T that it will be more expensive, and the dose won't be very high. From what I've read, a lot of physicians will give a very low dose of Sus, and I figure, if I'm going to be taking in synthetic hormones, I may as well go up a step and enhance my physical makeup. I hope that doesn't sound illogical or anything, I just figure it makes sense.

Up here in Ontario, it's hard to get a hold of an endo; it actually takes months to get an appointment, so that's why the black market is becoming more attractive by the day. I experience a lot of depression, and most of the time I'm not even sure why that is. It wasn't until last year I started to experience some really intense moodswings, so that was kind of the clue that confirmed my suspicion on the hormone imbalance. Once I had the bloodtest results I knew 100% for sure something was wrong.

Quick question, do you know from others if injections get easier over time? Not trying to be a pussy or anything, but I know no one likes needles, but I assume those get easier to deal with in time?

And yeah, I've done A LOT of research on the entire situation, so I appreciate that you awknowledged that. It's very frustrating to know something is wrong with you, and then your family accuse you of being a hypocondriac. My girlfriend is very supportive, though nervous, but I think she'll be happier with the change also when she sees the improvement in my mood.

I'm generally a nice guy, but when my depression hits, I can become quite bitter and angry, and I hate exposing that side of myself to her. She doesn't deserve that, but I'm glad she understands that it's not deliberate. My last girlfriend was not so forgiving, but at least now I know what's been going on with me these last few years.

Thank you so much for all of your answers and effort that you've put into your posts! Talk to you soon.

 

[chicrute]

Exemestane + good fats and testo booster naturals

 

[BigFella]

Chicrute - I don't think an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) will do that much for him! With free test at 40 he has a fair bit to make up.

Smoke: Prescribed T should be cheap. I've just got my first batch of Primoteston (T Enanthate) and it's $30 for 3 x 250 ml doses (which I will be halving and injecting twice weekly). And it's made by Bayer, so I'm guessing it's probably the real thing.

And my doc is quite happy to have me change the dose - he has just asked me to give it six weeks or so on 250 per week and go from there. And he has also said that he's happy to prescribe HGH. I'm pretty sure he thinks I'm an easy patient, courtesy of the research I've done.

So in six weeks I'm predicting I'll go to 250 per five days, maybe more - but I'm going to be guided by how I feel and how the labwork is.

Re depression: That's what did it for me too. In November last year I was almost comatose, and I have a business to run.

Re needles: Hey, I'm scared of the buggers too! The Primo comes with a nice 20g needle which will never get used! I got some 25g 3/4" needles, and I'm going to warm the T so it flows nicely, and I'm going to have a shower so my muscles are relaxed. But I think I'm just being a pussy, and after two or three I'll just jab and not notice. So answering your question: Yes, everyone says injections are perfectly fine.

Re endos: Do you really need one? I'm just using a GP - an ordinary doctor. I only went to one endo and he knew nothing. And charged me $290 after making me wait for 90 minutes. You'll have a compounding pharmacy near you. Go and see them, and tell them you need a doctor now who knows about this stuff. Chances are they will know all of the mens health doctors in a 500km radius. The one I talked to at home certainly did.

Don't let them give you Sustanon (sust) - it's more expensive than Primo (it is here, anyway - about four times) and the only reason for Sustanon (sust) is so the doctor can inject you every three weeks. But that will swing your T levels by a factor of four or five over the three weeks. So just get T Enanthate or Cyp and inject twice a week. I know that a self-injected half ml (!) is not scary - but a 20 gauge 5 mils sure would be. I reckon I'd be sore for a week from that much.

. . . "when my depression hits, I can become quite bitter and angry" - probably the high E kicking in.

Good luck mate. It won't happen as quickly as you would like, but you're on the way.

 

[BigFella]

Smoke

Any of the experienced guys will laugh at this.

First injection: I did not feel it. Not even like my doctor said to my wife one time "You'll just feel a little prick, but then you'd be used to that".

I decanted half a mil, stuck a 25 gauge needle on and injected into my shoulder.

I did not feel it. At All. Zero.

I was a pussy, now I'm macho.