Low test, low sex drive, low chance of happiness...

[hollipop]

Hi guys, I am a bodybuilder's wife needing some guidance and advice as we have got to a cross roads and now have no idea which way to turn next!
My other half did a body building comp in June, and has not taken any gear since. I know he was taking Clomid for a while when he finished the comp. We have been trying to have a baby on and off for the last few years, and through a routine docs appt my husband's doc recommended that he go and get an ultrasound on his balls as they looked a bit small (no surprise there!)
Anyway, to cut the long story short, after these tests and a few others, we have been told he has no sperm. Not a single one. He has been tested to see if it is a genetic problem which thankfully came back neg. So the doc thinks it is almost certainly the steroids he has used on and off over the last eight years or so. However, the doc says he needs to just wait now and see if he starts producing again. In the meantime, hubby is miserable, losing size, has no sex drive and is generally totally fed up. His testosterone levels were tested and came back super low, but the doc said he couldnt do anything for him! We we unhappy with this and went to another doc for a second opinion, but she put him on sustenon - now, if it's the steroids that got us in this situation in the first place, I'm pretty sure that taking more is going to only add to the issue. His knowledgeable gym buddies are saying he should go down the pregnyl route, I've been trying to research it but to be honest am now just way out of my depth! Would really appreciate some ideas or experiences from all you guys - I've been on a few of the fertility websites but its mostly all from a girl's point of view.
Thanks in advance

 

[Polynikes666]

First of all, let me start out by welcoming you to the board. What you have described is unfortunate, but not in the least bit uncommon. I'll address a few points, but serious male infertility issues are, for the most part, well beyond our "scope of practice".

Ill preface things with a few questions that will help not only myself, but other members of the board get a more complete picture of your situation.

1)How old are you guys?

2)Do you have any other children? Any previous pregnancies?

3)Have you both been screened by a qualified fertility specialist?

4)How long has your husband been off cycle? What compounds was he using?

Now, getting to the body of your text:

However, the doc says he needs to just wait now and see if he starts producing again.

This is why I inquired as the time frame of your husband's last AAS cycle. The doctor may be entirely correct.

In the meantime, hubby is miserable, losing size, has no sex drive and is generally totally fed up

Standard AAS "withdrawal" symptoms. Once again, quite time frame dependent. If we are talking years here, there may very well be a problem. If he's been off cycle for a month, then it's too soon to render any long term medical prognosis.

We we unhappy with this and went to another doc for a second opinion, but she put him on sustenon - now, if it's the steroids that got us in this situation in the first place, I'm pretty sure that taking more is going to only add to the issue.

This is an extremely slippery slope. Testosterone is only one component of a very complex chemical equation. An equation that is very poorly understood, even in the medical community. Now, your husband may very well be a long term testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) candidate. In which case, the Sustenon (are you guys in the USA?) makes sense. However, recovering reproductive potential while on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is beyond my depth as well. There is a doctor that posts on the "Anabolic Recovery Medicine" portion of this board that may be able to give you some excellent advice with regard to this topic.

His knowledgeable gym buddies are saying he should go down the pregnyl route

I'll be the first to admit that MD's can be a bit clueless when it comes to AAS use. Conversely, I'm not so sure that this is the time to heed advice from gym buddies. Obviously, it's up to you guys.

I've been trying to research it but to be honest am now just way out of my depth!

Keep poking around on the net! Not only will it make you feel more active in this "recovery process", but you may find some great studies that you can present to your doctor/s. Many, will listen to reason when faced with actual medical research.

Thanks in advance

You're welcome! As I said, post this over on the ARC board, and keep slogging away. With a bit of decent guidance and luck, things will only get better.

Poly

 

[barrysanders]

On a more serious note-answer the questions asked above from Poly and I can probably be some what of assistance. I have been 'around' this type of situation before and the outcome was a joyful one.

 

[hollipop]

Hi Poly & Barry, thanks so much for your responses, much appreciated. In answer to your questions Poly:
1)How old are you guys?
Me - 28
Hubby - 29
Yes we have time on our side but have been trying on and off for a few years now so pretty ready for some answers or action!

2)Do you have any other children? No. Any previous pregnancies? No.

3)Have you both been screened by a qualified fertility specialist? I have been given a basic check/ultrasounds etc, all fine as far as we know. Hubby has had these latest tests which have revealed no genetic issues, normal FSH levels, v low test.

4)How long has your husband been off cycle? What compounds was he using?
His first cycle this year he was on stana, deca, EQ and cyp (not sure of spellings sorry!) for 10 weeks. He had 10 weeks off, then did the same again without the EQ for another 10 weeks. He finished all but the stana about 12 weeks ago. He carried on taking the stana for another 3 weeks. He was also taking clembuterol. I know he was on clomid when he finished but I think he only took it for about 2-3 weeks.

So I hope that has shed a little light that might enable you and others to impart some more wisdom! Thanks also for your reply over on the othe rboard. Will post this there too and cross fingers!

Many thanks

 

[Cheappinz]

for some people it just takes longer than others..I havent taken birth control for 10 years, no protection, and I haven't ended up pregnant.
I think in addition to sperm production, there's the basic fact of getting it all together on the few days a month you are ovulating. I'd say do what you can to make sure you're fertile--they say there are lifestyle choices that enhance or deminish your potential, then make sure your hubby does whatever the doc says to optimize the situation..

 

[DADAWG]

a second round of clomid wouldnt hurt and might help speed things up, if he wasnt taking sustanon. there have been several bodybuilders here who got their wife pregnant while on cycle so its possible.
sorry i couldnt help more but WELCOME TO OLOGY.

 

[DADAWG]

gentlemen treat this lady with respect . she is here for help and not to hear your corny pickup lines.

 

[Polynikes666]

Holli,

How long has your husband been on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? I ask, because I'm wondering if you guys didn't jump the gun with further exogenous T. He may have been on the way to HPTA recovery, only to have it severed by the administration of TRT. It's difficult to surmise without a better timeline.

BTW, has the anabolic doc made any comments? Any information that he proffers will be infinitely more valuable than mine.

In the meantime, relax. You guys are still young, and have many arrows remaining in your quiver. So to speak.

Poly

 

[Teutonic]

I too got a girlfriend pregnant while taking test...he s 4 now and it s all good...
You ve got some good input here from some nice folks...and I echoe poly s advice... patience.
..and a second or third doc would be in order...my gp readily admit s I m as well read on these compounds as he is and we are working in tandem on my trt..as I m an abuser...and he knows it.
Welcome.

 

[snigg]

HMG, human menopausal gonadtropins

"HMG Massone is a drug similar to Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and has some of its function, but also has the added benefit of FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - stimulation, while Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is known mainly for lh - leutenizing hormone - stimulation. HM Gonadotropin injection was originally designed as a fertility drug, as FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - stimulation can greatly induce higher sperm count production by the body."

HMG (Human Menopausal Gonadotropin)

HMG - Human Menopausal Gonadotropin - Even Better than Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for Post Anabolic Steroid Cycle Therapy | Bodybuilding News ****************

 

[THAISEXGIRLS]

His first cycle this year he was on stana, deca, EQ and cyp (not sure of spellings sorry!) for 10 weeks. He had 10 weeks off, then did the same again without the EQ for another 10 weeks. He finished all but the stana about 12 weeks ago. He carried on taking the stana for another 3 weeks. He was also taking clembuterol. I know he was on clomid when he finished but I think he only took it for about 2-3 weeks.

Ok it looks like your husband did a 10 week cycle then......did he do a post cycle therapy? Did he wait 3 weeks (the deca and equipoise take 3 weeks to clear) then do clomid or other pct for 1 month? I'm betting he did not do that. Then it looks like he started a second cycle too soon. Time on is supposed to equal time off. He did another 10 week cycle without waiting for his body to recover first. Thus your husbands testicles never had a chance to start producing sperm again. Now your husband's natural sperm producing faculties are shut down and he does another 10 week cycle of testosterone further shutting it down even more. The deca and equipoise are known to cause sexual dysfunction problems due to raised prolactin levels. After the second cycle did your husband wait 3 weeks after last inject to start post cycle therapy (pct)? Did he use clomid for 1 month? You say your husband stopped taking stanza 9 weeks ago? So he should have started pct (post cycle therapy) 6 weeks ago and run the clomid for 4 weeks. This means he is only out of pct for 2 weeks.

It sounds like your husband was on a heavy duty cycle running 4 compounds like that. Was he taking an anti estrogen or dopamine agonist for the 19 nors? Given that your husband ran 2 heavy cycles so close together with so much test and maybe not enough time to recover he probably shut down his body's natural sperm and testosterone production system for awhile.

Taking more testosterone like the sustanon is probably not a good idea as it will motivate his body not to begin producing its own testosterone.

Perhaps you should concentrate on using compounds known to motivate the body to start producing testosterone and sperm after steroid use. I have used clomid and it has worked well for me. You could wait 3 weeks after last sustanon inject and do another clomid pct for 1 month. I take 100 mg clomid for 30 days for my pct and it fully restores me back to normal. So try that.....100mg clomid for 30 days...make sure you wait for the sustanon to clear. Clomid increases sperm count and test production.

Also proviron is good for increasing sperm count. I am now taking 50 mg a day of proviron and it is working great. You can take up to 250 mg proviron a day to restore sperm production and semen volume. Try putting your husband on 100 mg proviron a day and see if it helps. You can adjust dosage id needed.

There are other compounds steroid users use to restore natural function after cycling. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is common but I have no experience with it. You may want to research HCG.

Try listing exactly what your husband took including dosage, pct and time in between cycles. Ask ology people what they use for pct and recovery.

It sounds like your husband is "shut down" or has "crashed" after his cycle but there are drugs to fix that.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

snigg has brought up a great point, although i have never used it, i have heard great things about HMG. it is supposed to be much more efficient than HCG. the reason why many of us do not use it is because its very hard to get. but in your situation the doc could give you a script.

 

[Miss Muscle]

It sounds like your hubby made some mistakes in the past. Hopefully he can recover from these.

However be prepared for the worst just in case and take a good look into adoption as well. It's an option many refuse to even consider but it's best to be prepared.

 

[Hacksquater]

Does anyone think that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) at this point would be helpful to get him rolling again sooner? I have never been an expert in Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) but took it once. There is an article about in the new MD mag that seemed to say some take it by itself not PCT.

 

[Redbul]

I thought she said her husbands FSH is normal so would HMG really help?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

yes HMG would probably help. ive seen a couple docs say treatment may be needed for 6 months at a time in order to get back on track.

 

[hollipop]

Hey, thanks so much to all of you for your advice and knowledge, I am now way more clued up than I ever hoped to be!
From reading all your comments and speaking to my other half, it looks as though he really lost out on the PCT. He didnt wait long enough to start the clomid (I think he pretty much started just after he finished his cycle) and then only went on for two or three weeks. Now, from what I can gather, he wouldnt have got any effects from it because he started too early, and didnt do it for long enough (am I right?). So, would it be worth him trying again with the clomid or nolvadex for a while? If so, how much/how long? I want him to try and avoid 'crashing' any further if possible. I am definitely telling him to keep away from the sus, I have learnt that adding more test will only stop his body recovering and we might never get any swimmers at all! ()
So, I guess my questions now are:
-Is it too late for him to have another go with the clomid or nolvadex, and if not, how much? how long for?
-I now know that pregnyl/HCG could help but there is a danger of it further delaying natural recovery all together, so does anyone have any idea of if he should try this route and if so, should he do it alongside the clomid etc or after?
-Is there anything else he can do to stop losing all his size and sanity any more (bless him I havent seen him look this soft for years and he is almost shrinking before my eyes, but don't worry I will never ever tell him that. I am a nice wife and I do know the rules when it comes to the gym!)

Thanks again for all your wisdom, there are some really clued up people out there! x

 

[hardpr]

i second and third the hmg and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) usage. it works for me in both keeping the testes full looking and production seems to be larger not trying to be funny. on a side note when i used flomax once it killed my production has he ever used flomax?

 

[Teutonic]

Lil lady...I applaude your patience understanding and support of your man. For this i m karma will see that you are both gonna be blessed.
I wish you all well.

 

[THAISEXGIRLS]

Try clomid 100 mg a day every day for 30 days. It has always worked for me. Make sure you wait 3 weeks after the last sustanon injection before you start clomid. Also try 100 mg every day of proviron it is used to increase sperm count. It won't hurt your husband to do more pct. He needs to take drugs that will restore his body's sperm production and natural testosterone levels.