Lower Libido - Blood Tests - What Should I Get?

[Hoodlum]

I'm coming up to around 3 months on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) now, and generally feeling great apart from one thing. In the first couple of months, my libido was through the roof, but of late, it's not been too great, and I've been using cialis to make sure I can get the job done when I need to.

Obviously, E2 levels could be pointed to as a culprit for this, but since I'm going in for blood tests on Monday, is there anything else I should consider getting looked at? The standard tests I get run are: Male hormone profile (FSH, LH, Testosterone, Free Androgen Index, Prolactin, SHBG), and Oestradiol (non-senstive - they don't offer it).

I did my test cyp shot this morning (Friday), next one is scheduled for Monday evening, so I will go on Monday afternoon to get trough readings. I take 250iu Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) the day before my shot, and 0.5mg adex the day after (so 1mg/week).

As always, thanks for any advice guys.

 

[DreDay187]

Def get the bloodwork and post up results. I would think prolactin, estrogen, thyroid panel, and stress hormone panel would help pinpoint your issue but look into getting tested outside of your doc's office to include the sensitive E2 assay. There's a sticky about blood work and getting it done cheap if you're in the States and not in NY, NJ, RI and maybe another state or two. Another option is adjust your Aromatase inhibitor (AI) dose to EOD. 2x a week may be peaking and troughing your E2 levels moreso than a more frequent dosing protocol. Adex does have a pretty long half life but lower more frequent dosing may help. Hope to see yor results and fix this issue brother. In the meantime, L-theanine, L-tryptophan, Cialis etc may help and its possible its a mental thing and nothin physiological. Libido is a tricky business lol

 

[Hoodlum]

Def get the bloodwork and post up results. I would think prolactin, estrogen, thyroid panel, and stress hormone panel would help pinpoint your issue but look into getting tested outside of your doc's office to include the sensitive E2 assay. There's a sticky about blood work and getting it done cheap if you're in the States and not in NY, NJ, RI and maybe another state or two. Another option is adjust your Aromatase inhibitor (AI) dose to EOD. 2x a week may be peaking and troughing your E2 levels moreso than a more frequent dosing protocol. Adex does have a pretty long half life but lower more frequent dosing may help. Hope to see yor results and fix this issue brother. In the meantime, L-theanine, L-tryptophan, Cialis etc may help and its possible its a mental thing and nothin physiological. Libido is a tricky business lol

Thanks for the reply mate. I'm in the UK, and I'm self-administering - I get my bloodwork done privately.

I was on EOD dosing for the Adex, but the fact it ended up out of sync every week was making it hard to keep to the schedule, so I swapped to 2 x weekly, and timed it to the day after my shot to counterract the peak test levels from cypionate that occur 24-36 hours after injection - which I hope makes sense.

Already taking L-tryptophan and Cialis - not heard of theanine as having any libido effects, or is just to counterract stress?

I've been on T3 for about 2 months now, so that would probably mess up my thyroid panel results - is it still worth getting it done?

I'll look into the stress hormone panel - I don't think my clinic offers it as a package, do you know which individual levels it is comprised of?

Cheers, much appreciated

 

[Megatron28]

Thanks for the reply mate. I'm in the UK, and I'm self-administering - I get my bloodwork done privately.

I was on EOD dosing for the Adex, but the fact it ended up out of sync every week was making it hard to keep to the schedule, so I swapped to 2 x weekly, and timed it to the day after my shot to counterract the peak test levels from cypionate that occur 24-36 hours after injection - which I hope makes sense.

Already taking L-tryptophan and Cialis - not heard of theanine as having any libido effects, or is just to counterract stress?

I've been on T3 for about 2 months now, so that would probably mess up my thyroid panel results - is it still worth getting it done?

I'll look into the stress hormone panel - I don't think my clinic offers it as a package, do you know which individual levels it is comprised of?

Cheers, much appreciated

T3 will shut down your thyroid hormones. Labs now would just show you that. Hopely you did get labs before you started T3 though to know what your normal baseline is.

 

[Hoodlum]

T3 will shut down your thyroid hormones. Labs now would just show you that. Hopely you did get labs before you started T3 though to know what your normal baseline is.

Yes I have some labwork from about 3 months ago before I started, so once I come off the T3, I can re-test. Great stuff incidentally, no kind of jitters, anxiety or insomnia, just a nuclear metabolism and sustained fat loss.

 

[DreDay187]

Thanks for the reply mate. I'm in the UK, and I'm self-administering - I get my bloodwork done privately.

I was on EOD dosing for the Adex, but the fact it ended up out of sync every week was making it hard to keep to the schedule, so I swapped to 2 x weekly, and timed it to the day after my shot to counterract the peak test levels from cypionate that occur 24-36 hours after injection - which I hope makes sense.

Already taking L-tryptophan and Cialis - not heard of theanine as having any libido effects, or is just to counterract stress?

I've been on T3 for about 2 months now, so that would probably mess up my thyroid panel results - is it still worth getting it done?

I'll look into the stress hormone panel - I don't think my clinic offers it as a package, do you know which individual levels it is comprised of?

Cheers, much appreciated

Ok so when you get the results post them up. What you're doin with adex makes sense but the adex itself won't work immediately either so trying to time the peak of one with the peak of another is an exercise that will drive you crazy tryin to figure out pharmacokinetics and how your body affects metabolism on an individual level. Stick to the same protocol though for your blood work, at least that way you'll see if its effective or not.

L-Theanine can help libido and affects dopamine and serotonin levels in a positive manner. I believe Austinite has dosing recommendations in his "Supplement" thread. It also has a positive affect on stress levels and promotes deep/REM sleep which can only help your situation not hurt it. Another good thing to try out is vitamin C to help lower cortisol levels. Take 3-4g at a time (may cause upset stomach or slight diarrhea but only first couple days) any time you feel stressed, anxious, after training etc when stress hormones such as cortisol rise.

As Megatron said, the thyroid panels now will not be "natural" bc exogenous T3 will inhibit thyroid output. Post your baseline numbers and lets see where they were at. Stress hormone you're most concerned with usually is cortisol I believe but there may be more. Lets see what your lab results say before going into too much detail and possible going off track.

 

[Hoodlum]

I'm already on vit C 3000mg daily (courtesy of Austinite's excellent supplement thread), along with 5000mg sublingual methly vit B and 5000iu vit d. I've tried theanine in the past, but it made me feel a bit weird - totally spaced out and disconnected from reality somewhat. I'm willing to try again though.

In all honesty, I almost never feel stressed. I'm a pretty relaxed dude most of the time.

I'll add cortisol into my blood work for Monday, and see if I can dig up my initial thyroid panel readings - I haven't got them to hand right now. I'll post results up when they are available.

Thanks for the advice, appreciated

 

[IMT staff]

You may need to add Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) or progesterone to your protocol.

 

[Hoodlum]

Ok, the results are in. I couldn't get the cortisol this time since it was too expensive. My sex drive was back, and through the roof over the weekend, so not sure what's going on there.

These are trough values - I'm due to pin again this evening.

Total Testosterone: 953 (range 220 - 904)
SHBG: 29nmol/L (range 16 - 55)
Testosterone/SHBG ratio: 114.1 (range 24 - 104)
Prolactin: 76mIU/L (range 86 - 324)
Oestradial (non-sensitive): 26.7pg/mL (range 12 - 42.5)

So few things - total T a little too high? I'm currently on 240mg test cyp a week. Is it ok where it is, or should I knock it back to say 200mg/week?
My T/SHBG ratio is also outside reference ranges on the high side - does this matter?
And my prolactin is actually too low - are the any implications for this, and do I need to do anything about it?
E2 looks pretty much spot on where it is.

Here is the readout for reference. Thanks for any advice.

View attachment 553593

 

[Megatron28]

Ok, the results are in. I couldn't get the cortisol this time since it was too expensive. My sex drive was back, and through the roof over the weekend, so not sure what's going on there.

These are trough values - I'm due to pin again this evening.

Total Testosterone: 953 (range 220 - 904)
SHBG: 29nmol/L (range 16 - 55)
Testosterone/SHBG ratio: 114.1 (range 24 - 104)
Prolactin: 76mIU/L (range 86 - 324)
Oestradial (non-sensitive): 26.7pg/mL (range 12 - 42.5)

So few things - total T a little too high? I'm currently on 240mg test cyp a week. Is it ok where it is, or should I knock it back to say 200mg/week?
My T/SHBG ratio is also outside reference ranges on the high side - does this matter?
And my prolactin is actually too low - are the any implications for this, and do I need to do anything about it?
E2 looks pretty much spot on where it is.

Here is the readout for reference. Thanks for any advice.

View attachment 553593

240mg of test is definitely on the higher side for testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). Unless you are a really big guy -- Halfwit type big (in legend and stature) -- you probably don't need that much. Most guys don't go over 200mg per week on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). If I were you, I would cut it back and you will probably still feel good. There should be fewer complications at that dose over the long-run.

I wouldn't worry about the prolactin too much. Lots of guys actually like it to be low since it helps them in the romance department. More "endurance" and quicker recovery time. The only potential issue I have read about low prolactin is that it could mean you have high dopamine levels. This can potentially lead to compulsive problems such as gambling or sex addiction. The following is from Wikipedia.

The arcuate nucleus (cell group A12) and periventricular nucleus (cell group A14) of the hypothalamus. An important projection from these dopaminergic neurons goes to the pituitary gland, where it influences the secretion of the hormone prolactin. Dopamine is the primary neuroendocrine inhibitor of the secretion of prolactin from the anterior pituitary gland. Dopamine produced by neurons in the arcuate nucleus is secreted into the hypothalamo-hypophysial blood vessels of the median eminence, which supply the pituitary gland. The lactotrope cells that produce prolactin, in the absence of dopamine, secrete prolactin continuously; dopamine inhibits this secretion. Thus, in the context of regulating prolactin secretion, dopamine is occasionally called prolactin-inhibiting factor (PIF), prolactin-inhibiting hormone (PIH), or prolactostatin.[8]

I'm far from an expert when it comes to prolactin and dopamine -- so take that into consideration when reading the above.

 

[Hoodlum]

240mg of test is definitely on the higher side for testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). Unless you are a really big guy -- Halfwit type big (in legend and stature) -- you probably don't need that much. Most guys don't go over 200mg per week on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). If I were you, I would cut it back and you will probably still feel good. There should be fewer complications at that dose over the long-run.

I wouldn't worry about the prolactin too much. Lots of guys actually like it to be low since it helps them in the romance department. More "endurance" and quicker recovery time. The only potential issue I have read about low prolactin is that it could mean you have high dopamine levels. This can potentially lead to compulsive problems such as gambling or sex addiction. The following is from Wikipedia.

The arcuate nucleus (cell group A12) and periventricular nucleus (cell group A14) of the hypothalamus. An important projection from these dopaminergic neurons goes to the pituitary gland, where it influences the secretion of the hormone prolactin. Dopamine is the primary neuroendocrine inhibitor of the secretion of prolactin from the anterior pituitary gland. Dopamine produced by neurons in the arcuate nucleus is secreted into the hypothalamo-hypophysial blood vessels of the median eminence, which supply the pituitary gland. The lactotrope cells that produce prolactin, in the absence of dopamine, secrete prolactin continuously; dopamine inhibits this secretion. Thus, in the context of regulating prolactin secretion, dopamine is occasionally called prolactin-inhibiting factor (PIF), prolactin-inhibiting hormone (PIH), or prolactostatin.[8]

I'm far from an expert when it comes to prolactin and dopamine -- so take that into consideration when reading the above.

Thanks for the reply mate. I cut back to 100mg for last night's shot, so I'll run with this for a month and then check again. I had been feeling a little bit "testo'd up" the last few days in truth - massive amounts of energy and aggression in the gym, totally intolerant of people, caveman style thoughts going round my mind! Kind of fun to be honest, but not really conducive to fitting into society ;-)

Gambling and sex addiction? Sounds like fun! I'll keep an eye on that level too. If I wake up one morning buried under a pile of hookers and casino chips, I'll know I've got an issue.

 

[Spunkey71]

Thanks for the reply mate. I cut back to 100mg for last night's shot, so I'll run with this for a month and then check again. I had been feeling a little bit "testo'd up" the last few days in truth - massive amounts of energy and aggression in the gym, totally intolerant of people, caveman style thoughts going round my mind! Kind of fun to be honest, but not really conducive to fitting into society ;-)

Gambling and sex addiction? Sounds like fun! I'll keep an eye on that level too. If I wake up one morning buried under a pile of hookers and casino chips, I'll know I've got an issue.

Found your new avi Hoodlum
View attachment 553631

 

[Megatron28]

Thanks for the reply mate. I cut back to 100mg for last night's shot, so I'll run with this for a month and then check again. I had been feeling a little bit "testo'd up" the last few days in truth - massive amounts of energy and aggression in the gym, totally intolerant of people, caveman style thoughts going round my mind! Kind of fun to be honest, but not really conducive to fitting into society ;-)

Gambling and sex addiction? Sounds like fun! I'll keep an eye on that level too. If I wake up one morning buried under a pile of hookers and casino chips, I'll know I've got an issue.

That's weird. Higher testosterone levels usually mellow guys out and makes them more tolerant of others. When my TT was 200 I was the crankiest man in the world. At 1,100 everything is good in the world. I never get bent out of shape over things anymore. If you really are feeling increased aggression you probably have some other issue going on. I doubt the test is causing that. High dopamine levels tends to make you feel pretty happy-go-lucky too.

Increased energy and libido however are definitely driven by higher TT.

 

[Hoodlum]

That's weird. Higher testosterone levels usually mellow guys out and makes them more tolerant of others. When my TT was 200 I was the crankiest man in the world. At 1,100 everything is good in the world. I never get bent out of shape over things anymore. If you really are feeling increased aggression you probably have some other issue going on. I doubt the test is causing that. High dopamine levels tends to make you feel pretty happy-go-lucky too.

Increased energy and libido however are definitely driven by higher TT.

Interesting. It's not really aggression as such - I'm not looking to go out of my way to start a fight, just total and utter intolerance of anything I perceive to be incorrect or bullshit in any way. I'm a man on a mission, and nothing's going to stop me getting there kind of thing. It's like an overload of energy and dominance.

The last time it happened, I recognised it, and just turned on my heel and went straight back into the gym and lifted myself into a quivering heap, which seemed to get rid of it. I agreed a codeword with the girlfriend for when I'm doing it and she is around - she will just drop the word "rhinoceros" into a sentence to let me know I'm being intolerable!