I agree...stop Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) use atleast 4 days before PCT.
Mass Me UP! 14 Weeks 2nd Cycle, Critique Please
- Thread starter Kazu
- Start date
I agree...stop Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) use atleast 4 days before PCT.
ai on cycle, save nolva for post cycle therapy (pct), but i know people like nolva on cycle as well, but if you are going to use something, why not the Aromatase inhibitor (AI), i dont care for nolva all that much to begin with though, as for the aromasin over adex, i find its gentler on the joints too, and its proven to be kinder to the hdl/ldl profile
Agree Aromatase inhibitor (AI) druing cycle to control estro...using Nolva is not logical...
Aromasin is the best Aromatase inhibitor (AI) there is IMO. All that^ and it impoves my skin complexion and makes the skin less oily.
Continuing the same dose while on cycle into pct then tapering down weekly will more then likely actually help you feel better during PCT.
xandrolone is a synthetic anabolic steroid derived from dihydrotestosterone by substituting 2nd carbon atom for oxygen (O). It is widely known for its exceptionally small level of androgenicity accompanied by moderate anabolic effect. Although oxandrolone is a 17-alpha alkylated steroid, its liver toxicity is very small as well. Studies have showed that a daily dose of 20 mg oxandrolone used in the course of 12 weeks had only a negligible impact on the increase of liver enzymes[1][2]. As a DHT derivative, oxandrolone does not aromatize (convert to estrogen, which causes gynecomastia or male breast tissue). It also does not significantly influence the body's normal testosterone production (HPTA axis) at low dosages (10-20 mg). When dosages are high, the human body reacts by reducing the production of LH (luteinizing hormone), thinking endogenous testosterone production is too high; this in turn eliminates further stimulation of Leydig cells in the testicles, causing testicular atrophy (shrinking). Oxandrolone used in a dose of 80 mg/day suppressed endogenous testosterone by 67% after 12 weeks of therapy[3].
THE-DET-OAK
IncreasedMyT @ ULV
there is a big difference between have 0 effect and not having a SIGNIFICANT effect.
im not disagreeing that he cant use it during his Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) treatment. Not during his SERM treatment though, but you shouldnt use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) at that time either. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is suppressive as well, so it doesnt matter if you run drol during Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) treatment.
If your trying to say he can run Anavar (var) during his whole PCT though, even a ll bit of suppression is bad news when your trying to recover. its a whole different ball game then.
exactly. And on top of that. Look at the dosage in the study. 10-20mg/d? Give me a fucking break. You'd be better off taking Creatine. And look at the rest of the study...
Now 80mg/d, thats a guys dose of Anavar (var). And it WILL SHUT YOU DOWN!! Weak ass compounds. I hate seeing guys post about using this shit. I have done 120mg/d with negligible results. So why waste your time with that pussy 20mg/d dose just to cause a potential insignificant HPTA suppression. Plain and simple, you wouldn't.
As for the OP, here's an idea. Quit being a cheap skate and get a proper amount of gear to do a proper 2nd cycle. Test and one other compound if you so desire. You don't need all that other shit.
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ok since everyone wants to start a fuckin fight over this. here is written directly from the PDR for you idiots who dont know what that is its called a Physician Desk Reference.
Oxandrolone Dosing Information
Usual Adult Dose for Weight Loss:
To promote weight gain following weight loss associated with extensive surgery, chronic infections, or severe trauma, and in select patients who fail to gain or maintain normal weight. It is indicated to counter chronic corticosteroid-induced protein catabolism, and for relief of bone pain associated with osteoporosis.
2.5 to 10 mg orally 2 to 4 times daily. Dose range: 2.5 to 20 mg per day.
Usual Adult Dose for Alcoholic Liver Damage:
2.5 to 10 mg orally 2 to 4 times daily. Dose range: 2.5 to 20 mg per day.
Usual Geriatric Dose for Weight Loss:
To promote weight gain following weight loss associated with extensive surgery, chronic infections, or severe trauma, and in select patients who fail to gain or maintain normal weight. It is indicated to counter chronic corticosteroid-induced protein catabolism, and for relief of bone pain associated with osteoporosis.
5 mg orally 2 times daily. Dose range: 2.5 to 20 mg per day.
now we all know that gaining weight after surgery or illness is what most steroids for humans were initially designed for and if 20 mg can make an average person who does NO weight training maintain or even GAIN weight after such a trauma than certainly it can help a person who seriously weight trains keep muscle after a cycle.
that being said i did not recommend him to do Anavar (var) to build muscle but simply to make it a little easier to maintain size after the cycle.
and as for using SERM's (Selective Estrogen-Receptor Modulators) the most common being tamoxifen which has been proven to lower IGF-1 (ONE OF THE MOST ANABOLIC HORMONES IN THE ENTIRE BODY UP TO 100X MORE ANABOLIC THAN TESTOSTERONE) levels by as much as 22% at a dosage of 40-80mg daily r u fucking joking!? you mean its ok to use a SERM for pct which has a SIGNIFICANT effect on IGF-1 but not ok to use a very mild compound like Anavar (var) which has very minimal effects on ENDOGENOUS TESTOSTERONE (to remind you not as anabolic as IGF-1 by a long shot)
and as for using 120mg/d of TRUE anavar and not a fake at an everage street price of 1-2$ for a single 2.5-5mg pill STFU you would be spending 300-700 dollars a week just for the Anavar (var). and with "negligable results" somebody's being lazy if you ask me. 5-7 solid pounds of pure muscle on a cycle is very good and just 120mg of Anavar (var) alone for the average trainer everyday with CORRECT diet and training would be possible
so come on moneybags if you have that much a week to blow just on part of the gear you use for a cycle then you can buy a better argument
What the hell?
We dont want to start a fight bro...
You are simply WRONG.
Sometimes it happens...get over it.
What you posted does not support your point at all.
Pharma grad anavar at 50mg ED did crap for me. 100mg ED was ok but not worth the damn money.
Like RJ said you are better off using creatine....then 10-20mg of Anavar.
Hell I'd rather give my wife the anavar (if she'd try it) or give it to one of my female BB friends.
doesnt support my point being he can take anavar during Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) therapy and it WILL help him keep his gains he made during his cycle? and that it will not hinder his bodies ability to recover endogenous hormones that were shut off during his cycle? yea i think it proves my point very well.
BUT.. you are right Anavar (var) is a VERY mild compound which again is why i didnt recommend if for gaining because like you said it doesnt do a very good job when there are things out there like a-drol and d-bol that are far stronger orals but both of which could not be used the way i stated for Anavar (var) because of their dramatic HPTA suppression
sry to get pissed
but in my defense i do have PDR on my side lol and personal experience which obviously was way different than some experience with Anavar (var) lol which company made your pharma grade Anavar (var) by the way as i only know of two
yea never heard of them, Savient Pharmaceuticals and Pfizer Inc are the only two companies making human grade on the planet right now personally i prefer SP even though the only ones i ever see are 2.5 mg so it does get exspensive.
yea most places are underdosed or sometimes if your lucky overdosed unless they are legit companies like Pfizer,SP,Schering etc its jus to hard to get things exact without all the right equipment. ive heard good things bout genez's stuff but again personally i never use anything that is not human grade or veterinary (except tren which i make myself ) ill have to look into treasure coast though
and yea im persistant i didnt get my masters in pharmacology to get argued with lol Florida A and M all the way baby woot woot maybe i should decide to get my phd so people will take me seriously
I was waiting to see how long it would take you to post your education level. Only someone who copy and pastes from the PDR would then mention how smart they are cause they have a Master's. Here's my response. Whoopie fucking doo!!
Listen dude. First off, I have always made my own gear (or did when I was competing) so the Var, although more than test and others, wasn't that expensive. And the 120mg dose was a test of that weak ass compound.
Second, lazy? Are you seriously calling me lazy? I may not have a Masters in Pharmacology, but I can guarantee I have enough experience in this game to back up my opinions... not something i read from the PDR. Saying you didn't get your Masters too get argued with? What does that make you the steroid wizard? No, it makes you a guy with a piece of paper who knows how to copy and paste studies.
And where did you get 5-7lbs of muscle from? Another study? So you're saying based on your calculations as long as I take 120mg/d of Anavar (var) I'll gain 5-7lbs. Well fuck me running... where's my capping machine!!!
Third... does the OP have osteoporosis? Has he just come out of traumatic surgery? Or have corticosteroid protein catabolism?
Jesus christ, this is why i hate studies. ITS NOT A REAL WORLD STUDY FOR THIS SITUATION!! Put down the books and listen. Its doesn't say it will cause no inhibition of the HPTA, it says it doesn't significantly influence the body's normal HPTA function.... but that means it does INFLUENCE it! So again, why in the fuck, when you are trying to recover and regain your natty test levels, would you take the chance at ANY amount of negative HPTA influence? You wouldn't. Like I said. Unless you are an idiot. Instead of giving shitty advice, why not suggest a peptide like IGF-1. Or better yet, the three rules to almost ensure weight maintenance during post cycle therapy (pct).
1. Keep cals high
2. Lower volume but maintain training intensity
3. Stay off the fucking scale.
As for the SERM comment, I said nothing about using Tamox, or any SERM for that matter, I was talking about your shitty Anavar (var) advice. But since we're talking about it, do you know what your wonderful studies have shown about the amount of IGF-1 decrease in steroid users during post cycle therapy (pct)? Shut up, no you don't. You know why? Cause there has never been a study done on a steroid using BBer with regards to that. Its only shown that tamoxifen interferes with Igf-1 R in breast cancer cells. Says nothing about muscular IGF1 R. Do you have breast cancer cells? Even if you did, would it have any effect on your liver excreting IGF-1? No. And that's what the studies show. Irrelevant to this situation, but proves my point. Studies are useless for the most part in this game as no one will do studies on BBers all jacked up on juice, certainly not post findings on it.
Again, this is why studies compare nothing to real world experience. That's why they all mention AIDs patients, or mice, breast cancer cells or some other shit that has no relevance to this game. I personally know that I have used Nolva during post cycle therapy (pct) and its worked just fine. My muscles didn't deteriorate because the Nolva killed all my IGF-1. And if you think I'm lying... look this way (see how annoying that can be). <<<<<<<<<<<<<<----------------------
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THE-DET-OAK
IncreasedMyT @ ULV
agree with RJ and Thrashin.
I keep hearing bodymax say "its ok to use Anavar (var) during Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) therapy". No shit sherlock, no one is arguing that. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is suppressive so you can use whatever you want with it, even tren. The point that you are VERY wrong on is trying to say that you can use Anavar (var) during post cycle therapy (pct). No one runs Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during post cycle therapy (pct), it should be used Pre-post cycle therapy (pct). If you can argue with that then it really shows how far off you are.
using a suppressive compound, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) or VAR, during post cycle therapy (pct) is just plain stupid..............i guess stupid is as stupid does.
I keep hearing bodymax say "its ok to use Anavar (var) during Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) therapy". No shit sherlock, no one is arguing that. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is suppressive so you can use whatever you want with it, even tren. The point that you are VERY wrong on is trying to say that you can use Anavar (var) during post cycle therapy (pct). No one runs Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during post cycle therapy (pct), it should be used Pre-post cycle therapy (pct). If you can argue with that then it really shows how far off you are.
using a suppressive compound, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) or VAR, during post cycle therapy (pct) is just plain stupid..............i guess stupid is as stupid does.
life is like a box of Oxandrolone.
coming soon to 7eleven everywhere, in milk chocolate and pb n chocolate
well my aregument is done then but if anyone still wants to debate my experience maybe they should come see my knowledge put to use at the 2011 fl state bb comp.
so who know maybe somebody can show me what real knowlegde of hormones and the human body are ...done from my end thanks for the "debate"
so who know maybe somebody can show me what real knowlegde of hormones and the human body are ...done from my end thanks for the "debate"
THE-DET-OAK
IncreasedMyT @ ULV
there is no debate-you havent even posed a logical subject yet. i could give 2 fucks if your the worlds strongest man, that doesnt mean you know what you are talking about.
I will play along though:
please clarify something for me, are you saying its Ok to use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and Anavar (var) with your SERM treatment?
cause what im getting from your posts is that you dont even have a basic understanding of a traditional PCT regimen, let alone try to imply that it is ok to use Anavar (var) when your trying to get your natural LH and FSH signals up and running.
I will play along though:
please clarify something for me, are you saying its Ok to use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and Anavar (var) with your SERM treatment?
cause what im getting from your posts is that you dont even have a basic understanding of a traditional PCT regimen, let alone try to imply that it is ok to use Anavar (var) when your trying to get your natural LH and FSH signals up and running.
there you go again tootin your own horn. Man you must have some self esteem issues. I see you put 2011 Mr. Florida as your title now also. That makes all the difference in your argument and I am officially sorry I ever questioned your expertise.
Guys, leave him be... he's the future Mr. Florida for christ sake!!
