most cals u eat when u bulk

[Maxgain]

I'm going to bet that if you follow mine you'll get to where your wanting to go a lot faster then with what you have posted.

Note that 5 days / week we are not hitting 5000 kcals. Probably just over 4,000- the other 2 is around 7,000

Let me know how your metabolism and body comp changes are.

Ok from what i see you go high carbs over fat I believe that really is a personal choice. You also dont seem to see an importance in a big meal before bed.
However what is the logic in eating a low 4000 cals for 5 days and 7000 for 2 days which balances out only in numbers. On the low cal days you will lose some muscle and some fat if it leaves you in deficit.
The high cal days 2000 over what you need equal instant fat gain. I have never seen evidence of this system actually working> i dont believe it "shocks" the metabolism or promotes high anabolism of muscle on the 2 high cal days.
Also while i do not specifically cut out cheat meals i would never purposly include 2 such high cal meals twice a week.

Please not i appreciate all input but i like to have evidenital/scientific backing for all ideas/methods thus my replies I am not being ignorant but would just like to discuss thes ideas.

Thanks
Maxgain

 

[Maxgain]

Also the fact that fat is more readily stored as fat is a problem.

Just so we can get this out on the board. Would you mind showing us your pics- Hold a sign up with FUCK YOU DIRKMONEYSHOT I PROVED YOU WRONG!!!

If not how about giving my method a try and seeing how much of a change there is????

Not at nightime its slow energy release means the cals will be best utilised over carbs and protein as less likely to cause a surplus with a deficit lately.

I admit my gains are not as impressive as most on the board. Nealy 4 years training i have gone from 120 to 190lbs. And yes i have gained fat but not enough that i ahve ever needed to cut in that time though i have lost weight with dfferent streses.
So maybe i would be bigger with less fat with a better diet maybe with a better training programme. Maybe its because i only started to finally get treated for hypogonadism last year. Maybe its because i have a low Gh production that rqd treatment or maybe its my borderline hypothyroidism- yes i have it despite a very high metabolism thus the reason im not on medication for it i dont have symptoms.
It is very hard to just put up a pictuire and say he has a better diet than i do all i can say is well fair play he has a diet that works for him.

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

Do I favor - Yes, i find there is little benefit of fat. Other then the health benefits from "healthy" and some hormonal. But there is a limit and anything above does not serve a purpose.

As far as evidence? Go to the members pic forum and find pictures of guy i work with. The evidence is in what I have done over many many years.

I won't go scientific because i don't work that way. I have NEVER seen a legit scientific piece that is remotely close to what we do as BB's. Things can look good on paper or in a controlled lab - but in the real world, results are what speaks.

Some guys on here that will tell you that these things work

RJH90210 -----The way this has changed his body is amazing
Toolifter-------This guy has gone from barely placing in a small "local show" to nearly winning the overall state championships - He'll be going to Nationals next year.
'tensity--------Same thing as above
SCG2----------He has gone from over 300 lb's to a athletic 250 in the last year. He will be stepping on stage towards the end of the year.

Thats a small handful from this board.

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

If you want go over to some other sites I work on. he'll on intensemuscle.com alone there is probably legitimately

5 - 10 of the best trainers in the country on there. I don't think i'd be invited if what I do doesn't work.

 

[RJ]

RJH90210 -----The way this has changed his body is amazing

Dirk, i don't have any old photos up, but when I get home I will throw a couple side by sides up for this guy to see.

Hey Maxgain, take a step back and open that mind bro. Dirk knows his shit, and if you are struggling with things, maybe its time to start changing your philosphy on things and try a new approach. I promise you even if you don't like it, it will work.

 

[mister69]

RJ i would love to see some progress pics......

 

[jocktheglide]

I have to ask you -

Do you really believe that the

225g of Fat that is in your diet is actually helping you achieve your goals???

Although I didn't do much more math then that since you didn't really list amounts with proteins.

Fat intake borders on close to 40% of your kcals!!!!

Meals 2 and 7 in themselves are anywhere from 50 - 75% fat.

I'm not sure how you feel 70g of Fat directly before bed is beneficial. Your going to bed and not going to be using any energy. Fat is going to be stored as Fat-

I would like to see more diets and I will throw my $.02 in after as to how I would go about trying to hit 5,000 kcals for these guys as there are better ways.

dirk,
wouldnt you say everyones body reacts differently to whatevers put into them? some peoples body burns so much caloreies/day that maybe they need that extra fat or extra protein etc...in general to even grow? gaining a litlte fat while bulking is not considered bad everyones metabolism is totally different....like one member on our board if you remember all he at was fast food not all, but majority he claimed was McDonalds and he gained a lot of muscle while on his bulking diet I believe he said he was well over 5k/day...

 

[RJ]

RJ i would love to see some progress pics......

haha, give me a few weeks to get everything back to normal after my slacking at the gym lately... then I'll post some.

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

dirk,
wouldnt you say everyones body reacts differently to whatevers put into them? some peoples body burns so much caloreies/day that maybe they need that extra fat or extra protein etc...in general to even grow? gaining a litlte fat while bulking is not considered bad everyones metabolism is totally different....like one member on our board if you remember all he at was fast food not all, but majority he claimed was McDonalds and he gained a lot of muscle while on his bulking diet I believe he said he was well over 5k/day...

The problem with that is there are really very few who actually do burn that much.

Unless your working an extremely physical job (construction) or going through an extremely physical workout routine (IE: Football training camp doing 2 a days) there is probably not a need especially for you guys that weigh 180 lb's- 5,000 kcals is for guys that are already into the upper 200's.

Muscle is built over time- Not in a day a month or a year- The confusion of adding fat thinking its good is not. Yes I concede that you will put on some fat along with any "building" phase, but i come back to the fact that once you acutally strip all that fat off the amount of LBM you hold is not going to be what you think it is. To many young guys do not understand this.

As for everyones body reacting differently----Yes and No. Because there are exceptions to every rule. However WAY TO MANY people come to a conclusion they can not do something before actually having a real physical reason. I've had several people say to me listen I can't do High Carbs it just won't work. It turns out they were wrong. There are times that yes I have had to diet people on Higher Fats, but the amount of people that are in this category is probably around 10%.

As for this member? I do not remember, 1st I would have to see his pictures as there are a lot of "posers" on this board. Also, what health benefit does eating Mcdonalds all day bring with it? None, even though we are doing things that are not considered healthy - You should do everything in your power that you can to try to.

 

[Thoms]

how many cals when u bulk?

Depends, but if I'm serious, all I can eat...and yes it can get above 5000cal. But, not too clean. Something like 7 large sandwiches and two chickens+rice / day. I bloat like crazy but surprisingly little fat gains, considering the 'diet'.

 

[GymLift]

4 Mcdonalds Double Cheeseburgers
Large Fry

I feel like this cheat meal was made specifically for me. McDonalds is right close to work, I love double cheeseburgers, and they're cheap. I've bulked and cut with those things. When I did low carb a few years ago I ate those. I can't imagine how many of those things I've purchased.

I've kept away from the fries over the past few years with the exception of last Monday.

Just to confirm, is this 4 double cheeseburgers per meal?

 

[deadbeatrec]

I'm not sure how you feel 70g of Fat directly before bed is beneficial. Your going to bed and not going to be using any energy. Fat is going to be stored as Fat-

i have been getting 2 tablespoons of evoo and a shake 3 hrs b4 i hit the bed for awhile now and i havent gained any fat. im not saying your wrong, just saying. and i know my 20g is a lot less then his 70g, but still, does this mean i shouldnt hit the fats so close to bed? i always keept my pro/carb meals b4 3 oclock and pro/fat meals up until 9ish. then hit only pro right b4 bed and in the middle of the night.

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

I feel like this cheat meal was made specifically for me. McDonalds is right close to work, I love double cheeseburgers, and they're cheap. I've bulked and cut with those things. When I did low carb a few years ago I ate those. I can't imagine how many of those things I've purchased.

I've kept away from the fries over the past few years with the exception of last Monday.

Just to confirm, is this 4 double cheeseburgers per meal?

Yes - This is actually going to piss ya off a little bit. When Toolifter was getting ready for his show we had a HELL of a time the first few weeks (Actually 8 weeks) getting his weight to settle. His metabolism was running so high.

He was doing no cardio, T3, GH, thermos NONE but we still had to have him eating mcdonalds 2x/ week and a milk shake (with non fat frozen yogurt, protein powder, chocolate syrup and PB.) not very hard of a prep.

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

i have been getting 2 tablespoons of evoo and a shake 3 hrs b4 i hit the bed for awhile now and i havent gained any fat. im not saying your wrong, just saying. and i know my 20g is a lot less then his 70g, but still, does this mean i shouldnt hit the fats so close to bed? i always keept my pro/carb meals b4 3 oclock and pro/fat meals up until 9ish. then hit only pro right b4 bed and in the middle of the night.

No If your having a protein shake before bed then a little fat is just fine ----My point with this was there is way to much fat (70g) which you caught the difference.

As for Dividing it up between pro/fat and pro/carbs----I'm not a proponent of that but if it is working for you stay with it.

 

[adidamps2]

For everyone of you saying your eating 5000 kcals / week. Please Post your diet - I'm going to be very interested in seeing this.

heres mine dirk..although its no were near 5K cals

ok so heres my carb cut diet for the carb reduced days:

meal 1
4 eggs 2 slices/2oz cheese

meal 2
4 hard boiled eggs
1 oz almonds
5 liver tabs

meal 3
chick boobie 4-6oz
half bag of roamin lettuce
1 tbls olive oil
1 tbls balsamic vinegar

meal 4
4 hard boiled eggs
1 oz almonds
5 liver tabs

meal 5
chick boobie 4-6 oz
half bag romain lettuce
1 tbls olive oil
1 tbls balsamic vinegar

meal 6
meat 4-6 oz
veggies generally a serving size of said veggie

meal 7 only if i feel the need to use this one or if i absolutely need to make up some protien
casien/egg powder shake with PB and lecithin granules

drink a diet rockstar through out day starting with meal 2 and finish it by meal 4 or 5

ave nutrion intake:
fat: 110g
carbs 40g
fiber 12g
pro: 220-280 (this vares the most depending on chick breast and meal 6's protien source)

my work out days are a lil differnt and carb up days are really just a cheat meal for me, not a whole day dedicated to carbs..

and i use your post work suggestion of WM and oatmeal

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

I can't say there is anything wrong with it- I don't necessarly like dairy products but if your body handles it then thats cool.

Let us know how it goes- How much are you trying to lose?

 

[adidamps2]

I can't say there is anything wrong with it- I don't necessarly like dairy products but if your body handles it then thats cool.

Let us know how it goes- How much are you trying to lose?

i'm not really interested in losing body wt as much as i am in losing BF...but i guess the ideal would be to get around 190-200lbs that should have my BF at a pretty decent level..so far i am down from 220 2 1/2 weeks ago to 214 yesterday.

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

i'm not really interested in losing body wt as much as i am in losing BF...but i guess the ideal would be to get around 190-200lbs that should have my BF at a pretty decent level..so far i am down from 220 2 1/2 weeks ago to 214 yesterday.

yes i should have said actual fat since losing weight is not a good indicator of success.

 

[adidamps2]

so far i feel 10x better on this carb restricted diet than i did eating larger amounts of carbs...and my gas isnt nearly aws bad as it was when i ate all the carbs i use too.

i have to say though that i do look foward to my cheat/carb nights...generally a pasta night and a pizza night...

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

When you were eating higher carbs did you include any digestive enzymes?? Also what types of carbs? were they clean.

Food Allergies are very common, it is possible you may have been eating something that was causing this.