My 1st Steroid Cycle. Testosterone-Enanthate, Aromasin & Nolvadex.

[messymatt]

Update

1st injection done. 1ml @ 300mgs of Testosterone Enanthate. Top outer quarter of right glute. Didn't aspirate. Think I will in future though. I was told at my local pump clinic the likely hood of hitting a vein in your glute is slim. Aspiration is more for smaller injection sites, however no harm in doing it. Defiantly more awkward than I first though having to twist around. Mondays and Thursday are injection days then. Off to the gym.

 

[bigficker]

Yeah it does have a short half life. I had considered that. I think I'll stick with EOD and up it to ED if I get itchy. Don't want to over use it if I don't need to as it does slightly inhibit the AAS full potential.

So some say it inhibits the full potential. I don't really buy it though. Yes estrogen too low can be a problem. But with a low dose like 10mg aromasin I wouldn't think you'd have a problem. There's more to high estrogen than just itchy nips (gyno). An everyday dose would just leave you with more stable levels in my opinion, but good luck man and enjoy the ride!

 

[messymatt]

So some say it inhibits the full potential. I don't really buy it though. Yes estrogen too low can be a problem. But with a low dose like 10mg aromasin I wouldn't think you'd have a problem. There's more to high estrogen than just itchy nips (gyno). An everyday dose would just leave you with more stable levels in my opinion, but good luck man and enjoy the ride!

Cheers bigfick - I won't dismiss your advice by any means. Anybody else have an opinion on this?

 

[whitelml]

Just because you don't have any sides doesn't mean that ur estro hasn't skyrocketed. I think a low dose Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is mandatory. Adex can be taken every other day but aromasin needs to be every day in my opinion

 

[messymatt]

Update

So this is what PIP feels like. Post injection pain 16 hours after first administration.

A friend described it well...

"You know the dead arms your mates used to give you? Well its like that!"

I don't know if this Prolabs stuff is any different to any other gear, but on the side it say it's a 'new pain free formula' That might suggest why I've not experienced any of the burning or stinging sensations I have read about. It just feels bruised. I can live with this.

 

[DrHiney]

Cheers bigfick - I won't dismiss your advice by any means. Anybody else have an opinion on this?

I prefer to use Arimadex(anastrazole) vs Aromasin(exemestane) because Adex is a bit milder in preventing aromatization. Adex competes(meaning sometimes it works some times it doesn't) with the aromatase enzyme for substrates, and therefore does not completely prevent aromatization. Aromasin however, completely blocks all aromatase enzymes, therefore inhibiting all aromatization from happening. There is really no way to tell how much aromatase enzyme each person has in their body at a time.
Nolvadex is not an aromatase inhibitor (AI), it's an anti-estrogen. Its purpose is to prevent estrogen from binding with breast tissue. This is why it is used only in severe cases of Gyno during cycle. Otherwise it should only be used to prevent gyno during post cycle therapy (pct) when there is a possible rebounding effect of estrogen.

 

[messymatt]

I prefer to use Arimadex(anastrazole) vs Aromasin(exemestane) because Adex is a bit milder in preventing aromatization. Adex competes(meaning sometimes it works some times it doesn't) with the aromatase enzyme for substrates, and therefore does not completely prevent aromatization. Aromasin however, completely blocks all aromatase enzymes, therefore inhibiting all aromatization from happening. There is really no way to tell how much aromatase enzyme each person has in their body at a time.
Nolvadex is not an aromatase inhibitor (AI), it's an anti-estrogen. Its purpose is to prevent estrogen from binding with breast tissue. This is why it is used only in severe cases of Gyno during cycle. Otherwise it should only be used to prevent gyno during post cycle therapy (pct) when there is a possible rebounding effect of estrogen.

Good to see you again DrHiney! Can you tell us a little bit about your background? Are you actually a Doctor, an experienced user or something else?

 

[DrHiney]

Good to see you again DrHiney! Can you tell us a little bit about your background? Are you actually a Doctor, an experienced user or something else?

I am not a MD. My background is in pharmacology and toxicology and I am currently working on my PHD in nutrition (don't post that often since I am usually pretty busy and when I am not, I am at the gym or eating). I have been researching AAS (and ancillaries used with AAS) for approx. 7 years now. I have been using AAS for 4 years. I also compound many different steroids myself (testosterones, tren, anavar, etc.). Most of my friends that use, use my products and have been my "guinea pigs" in a way.

 

[messymatt]

I am not a MD. My background is in pharmacology and toxicology and I am currently working on my PHD in nutrition (don't post that often since I am usually pretty busy and when I am not, I am at the gym or eating). I have been researching AAS (and ancillaries used with AAS) for approx. 7 years now. I have been using AAS for 4 years. I also compound many different steroids myself (testosterones, tren, anavar, etc.). Most of my friends that use, use my products and have been my "guinea pigs" in a way.

That's good to know... I feel much more confident taking your advice now.

While you're here... I've only got enough Test E for 10 weeks. If you think I'd be better seeing through a 12 week cycle I will just get another vial, it's no problem. Am I'm going to miss some significant gains not doing weeks 11 & 12 weeks? Also, I get the impression I'm dosing on the slightly higher side, for a beginner cycle anyway. Does the slightly higher dosage of 600mg p/w compensate for a reduction in cycle length or not. One eye on my recovery here also if possible.

Regarding recovery, I keep reading about Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) (human chorionic gonadotropin) as post cycle therapy (pct) now also? Can you elaborate on the necessities of that for me if you have time?

Week 1-12 Testosterone-enanthate: 600mg per week @ 300mg twice weekly
Week 3-14 Aromasin: 10mg EOD (finish using 2 days before post cycle therapy (pct) starts)
Week 14-18 Nolvadex 20mg ED & clomid 50mg ED

 

[DrHiney]

I don't think you will miss any significant gains. I have read some studies that say your body is more "primed" for growth during the first 8 weeks of a cycle (I don't think I have the article any more, my old computer bit the dust a couple months ago, but I'll try to find it again). This is why lots of people choose to use a short estered test, frontload a long estered test, or run a long estered test with a frontload of a short estered test. Since it's your first cycle 10 weeks is fine and you can save the gear for another cycle further down the road.

hCG should not be used for post cycle therapy (pct). It can be used during a cycle to prevent testicular atrophy (shrinking of the testes). Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is suppressive of natural testosterone, because it takes the place of Leutenizing hormone (LH). LH is not the first step in the chain, instead its manufactured in the pituitary under the response of gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH) secreted from the hypothalamus. Since a LH mimicking agent is supplied exogenously the negative feedback signal to the hypothalamus will tell it to stop making GnRH, so no natural LH is produced. Thats why we use a potent estrogen receptor antagonist like nolvadex. When Androgen levels drop these antagonists lower estrogenic response creating a steroid defecit that signals the hypothalamus to start making GnRH. If you decide to use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) it should be discontinued 2 weeks before Nolva or clomid or it will suppress natural test.

I have used Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during every cycle but my first and I wont run a cycle without it, but that is my personal preference. Evidence and experience shows that the testes will grow back to normal size following proper PCT anyways. Anecdotal evidence also shows that it can give an increase in libido during a cycle especially when compounds such as tren and deca (that can decrease libido) are run. But as long as Test is the base of the cycle, libido shouldn't be an issue.
If you decide to run Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), the usual dosage is 500iu/ week (250iu twice per week). You can just pin it the same day as your test to make it easy.

 

[messymatt]

I don't think you will miss any significant gains. I have read some studies that say your body is more "primed" for growth during the first 8 weeks of a cycle (I don't think I have the article any more, my old computer bit the dust a couple months ago, but I'll try to find it again). This is why lots of people choose to use a short estered test, frontload a long estered test, or run a long estered test with a frontload of a short estered test. Since it's your first cycle 10 weeks is fine and you can save the gear for another cycle further down the road.

hCG should not be used for post cycle therapy (pct). It can be used during a cycle to prevent testicular atrophy (shrinking of the testes). Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is suppressive of natural testosterone, because it takes the place of Leutenizing hormone (LH). LH is not the first step in the chain, instead its manufactured in the pituitary under the response of gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH) secreted from the hypothalamus. Since a LH mimicking agent is supplied exogenously the negative feedback signal to the hypothalamus will tell it to stop making GnRH, so no natural LH is produced. Thats why we use a potent estrogen receptor antagonist like nolvadex. When Androgen levels drop these antagonists lower estrogenic response creating a steroid defecit that signals the hypothalamus to start making GnRH. If you decide to use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) it should be discontinued 2 weeks before Nolva or clomid or it will suppress natural test.

I have used Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during every cycle but my first and I wont run a cycle without it, but that is my personal preference. Evidence and experience shows that the testes will grow back to normal size following proper post cycle therapy (pct) anyways. Anecdotal evidence also shows that it can give an increase in libido during a cycle especially when compounds such as tren and deca (that can decrease libido) are run. But as long as Test is the base of the cycle, libido shouldn't be an issue.
If you decide to run Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), the usual dosage is 500iu/ week (250iu twice per week). You can just pin it the same day as your test to make it easy.

Thanks. Like yourself, I will run my first cycle without Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and assess any atrophy during these ten weeks.

 

[messymatt]

Update

On my return from the gym the last 2 days I have felt almost lethargic like. My workouts have felt more intense, but I'm not sure if this is purely psychological. Although I'm only 2 days in, and using a long ester, my test levels should by now be much higher than natural production. Surely this is bound to have a positive effect on my work output?
PIP from 1st injection (2 days ago) is still very much there and the bruised sensation hasn't eased off much at all. 2nd injection is tomorrow.

 

[Gregory450]

IMO, this is purely psychological. I had my first shot of test enanthate on 2013-01-09 (2 weeks) ago and I still haven't felt the kick in. I am pretty sure my test is of good quality since it comes in glass vials of 1 cc each. Pretty hard to counterfeit.

As for the PIP, in my case it usually goes away after 3-4 days, right before the next shot. But this varies from time to time. Sometimes it'll go away after 1-2 days.

Do you have trouble injecting yourself alone?

 

[DrHiney]

Update

On my return from the gym the last 2 days I have felt almost lethargic like. My workouts have felt more intense, but I'm not sure if this is purely psychological. Although I'm only 2 days in, and using a long ester, my test levels should by now be much higher than natural production. Surely this is bound to have a positive effect on my work output?
PIP from 1st injection (2 days ago) is still very much there and the bruised sensation hasn't eased off much at all. 2nd injection is tomorrow.

Your levels will be elevated, yes, but not necessarily high enough that you would feel it yet. Don't forget, the half-life of Test E is approx 5 days. Therefore, half of a 300mg dose (150mg) is released over 5 days. 150mg/ 5= 30mg. This means you will have only 30mg of free test in your system, which is not very much and not enough for you to be raging out in the gym. Give it time, and you will begin to notice i around 3-4 weeks.
Many people experience the post injection pain or "virgin muscle syndrome" you are experiencing with their first dose. It should pass after your first few pins. You are basically tearing through muscle, and also introducing a foreign substance. Take some ibuprofen and rotate between ice and heat.

 

[DrHiney]

IMO, this is purely psychological. I had my first shot of test enanthate on 2013-01-09 (2 weeks) ago and I still haven't felt the kick in. I am pretty sure my test is of good quality since it comes in glass vials of 1 cc each. Pretty hard to counterfeit.

As for the PIP, in my case it usually goes away after 3-4 days, right before the next shot. But this varies from time to time. Sometimes it'll go away after 1-2 days.

Do you have trouble injecting yourself alone?

Agreed. Every time I begin a cycle I get super amped up the first day I pin. This has nothing to do with the test entering my system, it is purely psychological. Mostly because I am looking forward to it kicking in, and making some gains!

 

[messymatt]

IMO, this is purely psychological. I had my first shot of test enanthate on 2013-01-09 (2 weeks) ago and I still haven't felt the kick in. I am pretty sure my test is of good quality since it comes in glass vials of 1 cc each. Pretty hard to counterfeit.

As for the PIP, in my case it usually goes away after 3-4 days, right before the next shot. But this varies from time to time. Sometimes it'll go away after 1-2 days.

Do you have trouble injecting yourself alone?

Good to see you again Greg! Yeah the PIP feels much better today which is my next injection day. No problem injecting myself buddy no. Can't wait for the 3 week point supposed to be some feeling. Let us know when you take off.

Matt

 

[messymatt]

*Can a mod please kindly delete this. It was a duplicate*

 

[messymatt]

Your levels will be elevated, yes, but not necessarily high enough that you would feel it yet. Don't forget, the half-life of Test E is approx 5 days. Therefore, half of a 300mg dose (150mg) is released over 5 days. 150mg/ 5= 30mg. This means you will have only 30mg of free test in your system, which is not very much and not enough for you to be raging out in the gym. Give it time, and you will begin to notice i around 3-4 weeks.
Many people experience the post injection pain or "virgin muscle syndrome" you are experiencing with their first dose. It should pass after your first few pins. You are basically tearing through muscle, and also introducing a foreign substance. Take some ibuprofen and rotate between ice and heat.

Yeah, I thought as much really. Maybe just felt up for it as I knew I was on the gear.
I've read a lot of articles on the half life of Test E, all stating a slightly different half life. Is the half life impossible to be 100% accurate on Doc? Does it differ from subject to subject? Or do compounds manufactured by different UGL carry slightly different half life's? An area I have to invest a little more time in I think.

 

[messymatt]

Update

2nd injection done. Top outside quarter of left glute. Moved the skin over a little, kept then needle steady when it was in (hopefully this will help with PIP) and even managed to aspirate 1/10ml. Watched a video which suggested to apply firm pressure to the injection site for a good 60 seconds after the administration rather than massaging the site. Again, this is supposed to help with PIP. We shall see.

 

[renat0]

Keep us updated, your cycle and stats are similar to me.
Hope you achieve your goals and beyond.