My first cycle

[Coffeekid86]

26 years old
Around 216lbs (as of now 4 weeks in)
Training seriously for about 3 years

I am using a basic intermediate texas method set up for my training routine, with some additional assistance work.

I am 4 weeks in on my first cycle using 600mg weekly injections subq of testosterone enanthate ONLY.

I will have clomid on hand this coming week.

All is going pretty good i think, aside from the welts that I am getting on the injection site. I do two 300mg injection sub q on Monday and thurs. I have come across a lot of positives references with sub q testosterone injections so that is how I will continue to administer the injections. However, I was wondering if anyone had any experience with subq test e injections and what input you could provide. Thanks

 

[MeatHead96]

Any sub q shot of oil is going to cause a hard knot under the skin for several days. If you don't want this do it IM. There is no reason to do sub q injections if your doing twice a week with enth. Do you have an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on hand? What is your post cycle therapy (pct) plan and how long is your cycle?

 

[Coffeekid86]

I do not have an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on hand as of now. I haven't had any symptoms of gynecomastia or any other apparent aromatisation side effects and most first hand resources i have found seem to agree that an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) intra cycle isnt a must unless side effects become ploblematic. The cycle will be 10 weeks then 2 weeks off before I start the clomid.

Can I ask why a sub q twice weekly injection is completely unnecessary? Thank you very much for a quick respectable response, I know the first time questions can become tideious.

 

[frank.tb]

But you need the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) just in case it does...will make life a lot better in case symptoms do appear...
Rule of thumb is to have ALL compounds on hand before cycle starts...too many problems occur when individuals don't have proper preventive measures...
Good luck on your first cycle though

 

[Coffeekid86]

I have read over the stickies on this forum and I understand the point of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). I will certainly ask my source about getting A-dex to have on hand in the event that side effects flare up. However, back to my main question about the sub q injections twice weekly. Anyone have any input on how a sub q administration alters the release time of an ester (Enanthate) and why sub q injections of testosterone enanthate may be counter productive??

 

[MeatHead96]

I have read over the stickies on this forum and I understand the point of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). I will certainly ask my source about getting A-dex to have on hand in the event that side effects flare up. However, back to my main question about the sub q injections twice weekly. Anyone have any input on how a sub q administration alters the release time of an ester (Enanthate) and why sub q injections of testosterone enanthate may be counter productive??

If you had read the stickies you would understand that you should have an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on hand all the time unless you want to grow tits and not have what you need to combat it. Sub q injections would not be counter-productive but unnecessary. It will release in your bloodstream slower causing somewhat more stable blood levels of the hormone but its already a long ester and your doing twice weekly injections. There is no need for it in your case.

 

[frank.tb]

I have read over the stickies on this forum and I understand the point of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). I will certainly ask my source about getting A-dex to have on hand in the event that side effects flare up. However, back to my main question about the sub q injections twice weekly. Anyone have any input on how a sub q administration alters the release time of an ester (Enanthate) and why sub q injections of testosterone enanthate may be counter productive??

Not questioning that you know what its for...but having it on hand is what you need...not being able to order it because anything can go wrong with your order and you might not be able to get it till 5 weeks down the road...seen it happen...the individual now has a nice pair of boobs...
Be cautious is what I'm trying to get across...and meathead is right about the sub q...

 

[halfwit]

I do not have an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on hand as of now. I haven't had any symptoms of gynecomastia or any other apparent aromatisation side effects and most first hand resources i have found seem to agree that an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) intra cycle isnt a must unless side effects become ploblematic. The cycle will be 10 weeks then 2 weeks off before I start the clomid.

Can I ask why a sub q twice weekly injection is completely unnecessary? Thank you very much for a quick respectable response, I know the first time questions can become tideious.

I can't imagine the size of the lumps you're getting from injecting that much oil subQ, but if it tickles your pickle - more power to you. My question is regarding your disuse of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). Can you feel elevated blood pressure, or an elevated PSA? How about benign prostatic hyperplasia? I know I can't feel those, and they're both caused by elevated levels of estradiol, which your body is most certainly producing RIGHT now as you have increased your serum blood levels of testosterone. You could very well be one of the lucky ones like me that don't get gyno symptoms with elevated E2 levels, but there are many other sides that it can cause that we don't always know about.

Here's what wikipedia (hey, it was the first hit as I don't have EVERY side effect memorized) has to say about it:

Cardiovascular effects include chest pain, deep and superficial venous thrombosis, pulmonary embolism, thrombophlebitis, myocardial infarction, stroke, and increased blood pressure. Gastrointestinal effects include nausea and vomiting, abdominal cramps, bloating, diarrhea, dyspepsia, dysuria, gastritis, cholestatic jaundice, increased incidence of gallbladder disease, pancreatitis, or enlargement of hepatic hemangiomas. Skin adverse effects include chloasma or melasma that may continue despite discontinuation of the drug. Other effects on the skin include erythema multiforme, erythema nodosum, otitis media, hemorrhagic eruption, loss of scalp hair, hirsutism, pruritus, or rash. Adverse effects on the eyes include retinal vascular thrombosis, steepening of corneal curvature or intolerance to contact lenses. Adverse central nervous system effects include headache, migraine, dizziness, mental depression, chorea, nervousness/anxiety, mood disturbances, irritability, and worsening of epilepsy. Other adverse effects include changes in weight, reduced carbohydrate tolerance, worsening of porphyria, edema, arthralgias, bronchitis, leg cramps, hemorrhoids, changes in libido, urticaria, angioedema, anaphylactic reactions, syncope, toothache, tooth disorder, urinary incontinence, hypocalcemia, exacerbation of asthma, and increased triglycerides.[33][34]

Do you still think it's only something to have "on hand" in case of gyno symptoms? I always recommend getting a blood test done mid-cycle as it's very important to know how things are going "under the hood" so to speak. They're cheap (50 bucks!) and the knowledge can be priceless.

My .02c

 

[frank.tb]

I can't imagine the size of the lumps you're getting from injecting that much oil subQ, but if it tickles your pickle - more power to you. My question is regarding your disuse of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). Can you feel elevated blood pressure, or an elevated PSA? How about benign prostatic hyperplasia? I know I can't feel those, and they're both caused by elevated levels of estradiol, which your body is most certainly producing RIGHT now as you have increased your serum blood levels of testosterone. You could very well be one of the lucky ones like me that don't get gyno symptoms with elevated E2 levels, but there are many other sides that it can cause that we don't always know about.

Here's what wikipedia (hey, it was the first hit as I don't have EVERY side effect memorized) has to say about it:


Do you still think it's only something to have "on hand" in case of gyno symptoms? I always recommend getting a blood test done mid-cycle as it's very important to know how things are going "under the hood" so to speak. They're cheap (50 bucks!) and the knowledge can be priceless.

My .02c

Yea I love how a lot individuals think gyno and nut shrinkage is all that occurs due to a rise in hormones...
But I guess I can't hate because I didn't know this shit till I joined the forum! Haha
Good info Halfwit!

 

[Coffeekid86]

I can't imagine the size of the lumps you're getting from injecting that much oil subQ, but if it tickles your pickle - more power to you. My question is regarding your disuse of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). Can you feel elevated blood pressure, or an elevated PSA? How about benign prostatic hyperplasia? I know I can't feel those, and they're both caused by elevated levels of estradiol, which your body is most certainly producing RIGHT now as you have increased your serum blood levels of testosterone. You could very well be one of the lucky ones like me that don't get gyno symptoms with elevated E2 levels, but there are many other sides that it can cause that we don't always know about.

Here's what wikipedia (hey, it was the first hit as I don't have EVERY side effect memorized) has to say about it:


Do you still think it's only something to have "on hand" in case of gyno symptoms? I always recommend getting a blood test done mid-cycle as it's very important to know how things are going "under the hood" so to speak. They're cheap (50 bucks!) and the knowledge can be priceless.

My .02c

You are absolutely right and I let some people convince me otherwise. I will be getting an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) soon, most likely Arimidex. I plan on getting my bloodwork done ASAP as well.

 

[frank.tb]

You are absolutely right and I let some people convince me otherwise. I will be getting an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) soon, most likely Arimidex. I plan on getting my bloodwork done ASAP as well.

Good shit bro...glad to hear you are getting some and glad you are getting blood work

 

[DjangoUnchained]

How on earth do you cope shooting test e sub q?

I can imagine that must be more painful than an IM shot... surely this isn't good and causes tissue damage beneath the skin?

Why don't you just pin quads or delts with a 1" needle... warm the oil up before you draw, follow proper procedure... easy as pie, zero pain...

Just a thought

 

[Coffeekid86]

So far so good. I have gotten my arimidex, however it isn't cheap. I also have nolvadex which I planned to use 40/40/20/20 for my pct 4 weeks after my final pin of sub q testosterone enanthate. I was wondering if it would be wise to start the nolvadex a bit sooner, say around week 8 (of 12) to help with the hormonal imbalances that will inevitability occur once I'm finished with the test?? I understand that nolvadex is a common SERM that people tend to use while "on".

My second question, I have liquid arimidex as of now and I haven't taken any Aromatase inhibitor (AI) up till this point. Should I simply just start with .25 Ed or should I wait till the 4 week period between the last test e and pct to use the arimidex?? Or should I just hold off on the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) entirely and couple it with the nolvadex as a PCT??

I am taking everyone's replies seriosly, however I am hearing from ALOT of people that arimidex is not always needed during a test only cycle and I have heard that arimidex can actually be counterproductive to the benefits of a cycle, especially a first cycle.

Thanks everyone

 

[Frank White]

I would think the large amount of test has your e2 level sky rocketing, so if i was you i would have already been taking my Aromatase inhibitor (AI), which you always have on hand, but you already heard that speech. It's better to prevent sides then to treat them! I'm still scratching my head why your not pinning your test IM??? But that's just me...good luck!

 

[halfwit]

So far so good. I have gotten my arimidex, however it isn't cheap. I also have nolvadex which I planned to use 40/40/20/20 for my post cycle therapy (pct) 4 weeks after my final pin of sub q testosterone enanthate. I was wondering if it would be wise to start the nolvadex a bit sooner, say around week 8 (of 12) to help with the hormonal imbalances that will inevitability occur once I'm finished with the test?? I understand that nolvadex is a common SERM that people tend to use while "on".

My second question, I have liquid arimidex as of now and I haven't taken any Aromatase inhibitor (AI) up till this point. Should I simply just start with .25 Ed or should I wait till the 4 week period between the last test e and post cycle therapy (pct) to use the arimidex?? Or should I just hold off on the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) entirely and couple it with the nolvadex as a post cycle therapy (pct)??

I am taking everyone's replies seriosly, however I am hearing from ALOT of people that arimidex is not always needed during a test only cycle and I have heard that arimidex can actually be counterproductive to the benefits of a cycle, especially a first cycle.

Thanks everyone

No, save your Nolva for your post cycle therapy (pct) unless you have gynecomastia starting. Even then, there are better options than nolva for that. Using SERMs during a cycle is really old school and was how folks kept from gyno forming as there just weren't AI's around back then to prevent the estrogen from forming in the first place. It's now the 21st century, things have changed a bit - but unfortunately a lot of advice still clings to the 20th century.

Yes, start the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) NOW at .25mg EOD. You do not want to mix arimidex with nolvadex as they have an interaction, making them less effective. You will stop using the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) the day before you start the Nolva. I also suggest picking up clomid for your post cycle therapy (pct), but there are a ton of really good threads on this - so I'll let you read them instead of me explaining it here.

Every person that says, "You don't need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on a cycle" really needs to show you a lab result of their blood 6 weeks into their cycles. I bet you that they would change their opinions REALLY quick. We can't see a lot of the side effects of high estradiol, so people think they're okay. Nothing could be further from the truth. The only people that I would recommend keeping off an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) would be those with really low testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) doses of testosterone that don't aromatize much and folks with blood work showing that they are some of the VERY rare individuals that simply don't aromatize with higher doses of testosterone or testosterone derivatives. Everyone else is just guessing or hoping for the best.

My .02c

 

[Coffeekid86]

Thank you so much. Cleared up a lot. I will start the arimidex at .25 today. Kind of an off the wall question, but how do people typically store arimidex liquid?

 

[MickeyKnox]

Thank you so much. Cleared up a lot. I will start the arimidex at .25 today. Kind of an off the wall question, but how do people typically store arimidex liquid?

Cool dry place. No need to refrigerate.

 

[halfwit]

Thank you so much. Cleared up a lot. I will start the arimidex at .25 today. Kind of an off the wall question, but how do people typically store arimidex liquid?

My bedroom nightstand haha. It's aromasin and letrozole that need to be refrigerated.

 

[MickeyKnox]

My bedroom nightstand haha. It's aromasin and letrozole that need to be refrigerated.

Really? That's the first ive heard of that. I have never refrigerated my Aromasin.

Any literature to support this? Thanks.

 

[Coffeekid86]

No, save your Nolva for your post cycle therapy (pct) unless you have gynecomastia starting. Even then, there are better options than nolva for that. Using SERMs during a cycle is really old school and was how folks kept from gyno forming as there just weren't AI's around back then to prevent the estrogen from forming in the first place. It's now the 21st century, things have changed a bit - but unfortunately a lot of advice still clings to the 20th century.

Yes, start the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) NOW at .25mg EOD. You do not want to mix arimidex with nolvadex as they have an interaction, making them less effective. You will stop using the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) the day before you start the Nolva. I also suggest picking up clomid for your post cycle therapy (pct), but there are a ton of really good threads on this - so I'll let you read them instead of me explaining it here.

Every person that says, "You don't need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on a cycle" really needs to show you a lab result of their blood 6 weeks into their cycles. I bet you that they would change their opinions REALLY quick. We can't see a lot of the side effects of high estradiol, so people think they're okay. Nothing could be further from the truth. The only people that I would recommend keeping off an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) would be those with really low testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) doses of testosterone that don't aromatize much and folks with blood work showing that they are some of the VERY rare individuals that simply don't aromatize with higher doses of testosterone or testosterone derivatives. Everyone else is just guessing or hoping for the best.

My .02c

This board has helped me immensely, thank you spongebob and everyone else that has steered me straight.

I have read that nolvadex is pretty comparable to clomid. What's the benefit of using both instead of simply using nolvadex 40/40/20/20 for my post cycle therapy (pct)

Also, I know there is a thread about NOT tellin your doc about AAS use, but I've been penciled in for some blood work to be done here soon. Is there any specific explanation I can give as to why may blood work may seem "abnormal". And will a normal non sports specific doctor suspect that I am using an AAS?

Also regarding training. As mentioned I use a basic texas method set up. And my strength has really taken off, linear progression has definitely been restored over the past 2 months. I am using a conservative progression in weight (5lb) on all lifts and I am at the point where I am making a PR every week. With this new and relatively quickly gained strength should I tailor my programming down to preserve my tendon and joint integrity?? I have noticed my tendinitis is becoming rather problematic, particularly with the bench press.