My first serious recomp cycle

[Roush]

So , for anyone who knows about this, how do I combine injectable ephedrine into a ECA stack ? how do i dose it?

if your going to resort to stims at this point, imo just going with Clen is going to be far more effective , and cheap and easy to dose

 

[calindan2013]

if your going to resort to stims at this point, imo just going with Clen is going to be far more effective , and cheap and easy to dose

Thanks but I really don't want to risk my cardiovascular health. Said it before, I say it again. Clen is very dangerous and I already abused my body in many ways in a long period, and never did a bloodwork. So I don't want to push it so far.

 

[Roush]

Thanks but I really don't want to risk my cardiovascular health. Said it before, I say it again. Clen is very dangerous and I already abused my body in many ways in a long period, and never did a bloodwork. So I don't want to push it so far.

but you want to run Ephedrine and caffeine together ? Ephedrine is banned in some countries, and the number one listed negative side effect for it is 'cardiovascular' and heart complications. its also used to make 'meth', which sounds real heart healthy to me

clen on the other hand has been fda approved for use in asthma medication for children.

one is used to make meth and street drugs, ephedrine . and the other is used in children's mediation . hmmm


not saying either one is healthy for you , it all has risks

 

[calindan2013]

but you want to run Ephedrine and caffeine together ? Ephedrine is banned in some countries, and the number one listed negative side effect for it is 'cardiovascular' and heart complications. its also used to make 'meth', which sounds real heart healthy to me

clen on the other hand has been fda approved for use in asthma medication for children.

one is used to make meth and street drugs, ephedrine . and the other is used in children's mediation . hmmm


not saying either one is healthy for you , it all has risks

it's not , it's been banned by the FDA years ago and has much higher heart complication risks than ephedrine. i checked facts on many sites. heart hyperthrophy and even necrosis and other complications reports have been shown from some sources. ephedrine? increased blood pressure, anxiety, tremor, etc. nothing life threatening, especially not in the short term.

 

[Roush]

but at what dosage do you have to run Ephedrine at to get the same fat burning properties of Clen ? Probably so high that the negatives of Ephedrine may be far worse . probably the reason why 99% of all competitive body builders use clen , its safe to use at a very very low dose and still quite effective .

 

[calindan2013]

but at what dosage do you have to run Ephedrine at to get the same fat burning properties of Clen ? Probably so high that the negatives of Ephedrine may be far worse . probably the reason why 99% of all competitive body builders use clen , its safe to use at a very very low dose and still quite effective .

Maybe so, but it has been proven that ephedrine + caffeine + aspirin work synergistically and have much better fat burning effects than any of them used sepparately. So the point is I wouldnt use ephedrine alone but as part of a ECA stack. I also saw lately some people said ECA and Clen are comparable in results, no idea about it myself, I guess Clen would be better in my opinion but comes with higher risks. And if you fuck your heart with Clen , fat burning wil be the least of concerns. I just read a lot of warnings and not worth it impressions about Clen, including some studies that show that stuff is from the nightmare realm. Never yet seen ephedrine in such a bad light, by contrary, ECA is safe for consumption by most humans, considering you dont go high on dosage, which is always the most pinpointed aspect and priority mentioned in a ECA guide/article. So it would be simply crazy and stupid to try to run it so high just to mimic Clen's effects.

Maybe you like Clen or have seen others who got good results out of it with no health issues or complaints, I can't argue with your facts, but I can argue with what I seen/read and I wouldn't risk my hide after everything I read about it. It's not that the drug doesn't tempt me but there are way too many concerns to consider. And I didn't argue that ECA is better in results than Clen, never said that. I just said it's safer and will get the job done. Isn't this a marathon afterall? Or are we hurrying towards a 2 meter hole in the earth? Yes I did run Tren with no test and tried to train at home, but that's not insanity, it's just a noob mistake and self experiment with nowhere the consquences of some other hardcore shit that can be done. Learnt the lesson and doing it the proper way now.

I would indeed run Clen if the health/cardiac concerns wouldnt be so hugely stressed over all over the internet. And it's not necessarily the issue that everyone would be subjected to the same negative effects, but that I don't know how I would end up after such a cycle, personally, health-wise. Who doesn't want to use the most effective solution for the job? I'm a adept of that idea, I'm even a risk taker, but hell no way am I going to take risks so huge to ruin myself for life. I got people to look after.

 

[Roush]

my point is if your so worried about your heart why are you messing around with ephedrine or an ECA stack ?

****** No links to outside sites*********

""Ephedra, a very powerful stimulant, has health risks such as hypertension, heart palpitations, stroke, seizure and death. For this reason, the sale of ECA stacks and other dietary supplements containing ephedra have been restricted."""


it just seems contradictory to say i won't run a small dose of clen cause of my heart, and then run an ECA stack

 

[alphabravo]

I don't like stims at all honestly, but roush makes a valid point on the ephedrine. Most studies done with it are low end doses used for its primary purpose, a bronchodilator - which is the same reason clean is used. You see the epi used in the vapor form a lot, all my children have had it when they had really bad croup and their air ways were restricted, but honestly the way it jacks their heart rate up I don't let the docs do it until a last resort.

I think it's safe to say all the above mentioned stims can be dangerous if caution is not used, and keep in mind we tend to dose these things higher when you're talking PED reasons versus the info on the studies at normal medical doses.

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Here is one of many studies showing 20mg of ephedrine combined with 200mg caffeine 3xday, exactly what is recommended for fat loss, to be perfectly safe:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1318281

OP, EC is safer than clen but I do recommend dropping the A since aspirin works primarily through prostaglandin inhibition and that is an ineffective MOA for fat loss for anyone outside of the obese category.

Now don't mind me, just passing through

 

[Primoballin]

So..if I'm reading all this right..you like eating pizzas, and are trying to minimize the damage by taking caffeine and ephedrine.

Buddy, you're some kind of stupid

 

[Roush]

ECA stacks, which include a combination of ephedra, caffeine and aspirin, have been used as a tool to decrease body fat and lose weight. Ephedra, a very powerful stimulant, has health risks such as hypertension, heart palpitations, stroke, seizure and death. For this reason, the sale of ECA stacks and other dietary supplements containing ephedra have been restricted.

Not Your Everyday Stimulant

Ephedra is the most potent and controversial ingredient in ECA stacks. While caffeine and aspirin are common, everyday substances widely considered safe, ephedra is not. Ephedra, also known as ma huang, is an herbal stimulant derived from an evergreen shrub-like plant native to Central Asia and Mongolia. While different species of the ephedra plant exist, the species that contains the ephedrine alkaloid most commonly used in ephedra products is Ephedra sinica. Ephedra stimulates the central nervous system, which increases heart rate, constricts blood vessels and increases metabolism and body temperature. These characteristics, which are the same ones that promote weight loss, can also make this substance dangerous.

Banned Products

The FDA determined that ephedrine containing products pose an ***8220;unreasonable risk of illness or injury,***8221; particularly to people with high blood pressure or heart disease. The agency has notified the public that all dietary supplements, including any ephedrine alkaloids, that have not been specifically approved by the FDA, are illegal to market in the United States. While the sale of over-the-counter ephedrine products was banned by the FDA in 2004, ephedrine is still a legal substance, approved for human consumption; though it is highly regulated.

Official Reports

According to the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, the FDA has received over 900 reports of ephedra toxicity between 1995 and 1997 (before ephedra was banned) with over 37 of those cases representing serious injuries including heart attack and stroke or death. NCCAM also notes that using ephedra along with caffeine makes for an even more dangerous cocktail, with an increased potential for side effects.

Health Risks

One 2000 article published in the ***8220;New England Journal of Medicine***8221; reviewed 140 reports of side effects related to the use of ephedra. The researchers found that hypertension was the most common adverse effect with 17 reports, followed by heart palpitations with 13 reports, stroke with 10 reports and seizures with seven reports. Some sources, however, conclude that ECA stacks, when taken in modest doses, can be safe. One 1993 study published in the ***8220;International Journal of Obesity and Related Metabolic Disorders***8221; found that ECA, in doses of ephedrine (75-150mg), caffeine (150mg) and aspirin (330mg), is well tolerated in healthy people, ''causing no significant change in heart rate or blood pressure.***8221;

Calidan , take the ECA stack and hope you get results , I personally don't care if guys run clen, eca, or snort fat lines of cocaine to lose weight.
just think that educating oneself is a good idea, so just saying you should keep studying before you just assume one thing is safer then another. but maybe you have.

I was just trying to do a good service to members on this board by providing additional reading , I'm NOT promoting outside links

 

[calindan2013]

Calidan , take the ECA stack and hope you get results , I personally don't care if guys run clen, eca, or snort fat lines of cocaine to lose weight.
just think that educating oneself is a good idea, so just saying you should keep studying before you just assume one thing is safer then another. but maybe you have.

I was just trying to do a good service to members on this board by providing additional reading , I'm NOT promoting outside links

While your effort is truly appreciated and welcomed anytime , and I like your suggestions most of the time and can do nothing else but sincerely hope to see them again because they're very informative, right here we're talking about obvious facts that are easy to check. It's simple. I'm a beginner on the subject, I respect the opinions of other knowledgeable members, yours included, but Im also very attentive to what interests me and what I see. Drug vs drug, mg for mg, by its simple nature, Clen has way more risk associated with it than Ephedrine. That's my current opinion. A simple google search for anyone interested in the debate should be revealing . On the other hand, I read about both and I remember what I read. Look at the poster above, she/he supported my argument as well with a medical study regarding the safety of ECA at FAT LOSS recommended dosages.

Moreover, your own post shows that ephedrine has increased risks and probability of ocurrence for people who already have some form of heart disease, so people who are very vulnerable to ANY stimulant. I'm most likely not in that category, or at least hopefully. By the same logic, what can one say about a cardiac patient taking Clen? Obviously, he won't survive long if at all.

So I guess I'm not really ignorant if I read something and have a impression after, not before. While on other forums, Clen is also advised against, I also remember some posters here supporting the anti-Clen thesis right here in my thread, some pages ago, after you first recommended me Clen? I saw a article that linked studies that shown that even 2-3 weeks of Clen CAN do significant damage to the heart muscle. Maybe it's all lies and stupid pretexts to keep people from getting good results and further discredit a drug that has long ago been FDA banned and not in use anymore? So there's no ignorance here. It's a matter of perspective and choosing what you believe and what risks you want to take. All in all, I'm just worried Clen will be more damaging to me than Ephedrine and that's the only reason I don't want to try it. That's all to it. Yes, I'm very worried when I see heart things on the description of drugs, and if two drugs have the same type of risks but different degrees of them, I would rather choose the one that has the least and cardio and diet a bit more.

 

[alphabravo]

I don't think you even need stims right now... seems like they're better suited for when you stall on weight loss. You have lots of room go to by just training hard and eating healthy, I always felt ECA worked best for me when I was already at a rather low body fat (15% or so) but trying to get down a few more digits.

Ultimately it's up to you but if it were me I'd save some cards for later, roush has explained it before - how we only have some many "cards" in our hand for accelerate a cut, and stims are one of them. If you're not making the results you desire it may be wise to up the cardio or lower calories, adjust macros... etc.

 

[calindan2013]

I don't think you even need stims right now... seems like they're better suited for when you stall on weight loss. You have lots of room go to by just training hard and eating healthy, I always felt ECA worked best for me when I was already at a rather low body fat (15% or so) but trying to get down a few more digits.

Ultimately it's up to you but if it were me I'd save some cards for later, roush has explained it before - how we only have some many "cards" in our hand for accelerate a cut, and stims are one of them. If you're not making the results you desire it may be wise to up the cardio or lower calories, adjust macros... etc.

I won't be using it right now, I can get a lot of work done naturally indeed.

 

[Roush]

I won't be using it right now, I can get a lot of work done naturally indeed.

good idea, don't play all your cards at once

 

[Roush]

Ultimately it's up to you but if it were me I'd save some cards for later, roush has explained it before - how we only have some many "cards" in our hand for accelerate a cut, and stims are one of them. If you're not making the results you desire it may be wise to up the cardio or lower calories, adjust macros... etc.

here is my post about the 'cards' , may be useful info for you calindan

""re-comps and cutting are similar in that you have only so many 'cards' to work with . You have say maybe 7 cards at your disposal . you don't want to play all your cards at once. be a strategic card player.
heres what i mean.

you have these things at your disposal , but do not play them all at once time .
- Cardio
- Hypo-caloric diet
- Carb cycling
-Metabolism manipulation / re-feeds
- Thyroid drugs like T3
- Fat burners like Clen
-AAS

if you go full bore and do all these things all at the same time, then you'll hit a wall quickly and have no where left to go , having played all your cards. its a long 16 week journey . play them when needed.

Run your Primo and test base , then have calories at maintenance and up your time spent at the gym. then progress a little and when it slows down , then start implementing cardio 3 days a week, when it slows down, then go to a hypo-caloric diet too .. when that progress slows down then start manipulating your Macros and cycling carbs, when that slows down , then do cardio 5 days a week. may need to lower your calories more . if that slows down start implementing some things like T3 and maybe a fat burner as well. etc etc...

make sense . give yourself room to make progress""

 

[calindan2013]

here is my post about the 'cards' , may be useful info for you calindan

""re-comps and cutting are similar in that you have only so many 'cards' to work with . You have say maybe 7 cards at your disposal . you don't want to play all your cards at once. be a strategic card player.
heres what i mean.

you have these things at your disposal , but do not play them all at once time .
- Cardio
- Hypo-caloric diet
- Carb cycling
-Metabolism manipulation / re-feeds
- Thyroid drugs like T3
- Fat burners like Clen
-AAS

if you go full bore and do all these things all at the same time, then you'll hit a wall quickly and have no where left to go , having played all your cards. its a long 16 week journey . play them when needed.

Run your Primo and test base , then have calories at maintenance and up your time spent at the gym. then progress a little and when it slows down , then start implementing cardio 3 days a week, when it slows down, then go to a hypo-caloric diet too .. when that progress slows down then start manipulating your Macros and cycling carbs, when that slows down , then do cardio 5 days a week. may need to lower your calories more . if that slows down start implementing some things like T3 and maybe a fat burner as well. etc etc...

make sense . give yourself room to make progress""

Spoken like a true guru.

 

[calindan2013]

anyone got a PSL/EP voucher? need it fast.

 

[calindan2013]

*******

 

[Primoballin]

anyone got a PSL/EP voucher? need it fast.

Patience.. grasshopper. Rome wasn't built in a day. Neither will your Adonis physique