My first serious recomp cycle

-The people that run tren and more gear to CUT: are the ones with muscle mass..........
-U have hardly any mass, It is all BF as far as I can tell. Which Calls for nothing more than a DEFICIT
-Anavar is a popular substance used by Woman. Out of the stacks of orals, ur choosing one so weak that woman can use it proper? Good choice.
-Ur training at home with steroids. What kind of GYM can u have at home....This is below the Planet fitness level bro
-No im not reading 15 pages of posts, I only read the first one and it says it all. U shouldn't have even started with the knowledge u listed there.
-I'm not putting u down, I'm simply telling u the best way to do it. How MUCH of a recomp do u honestly think ur going to get with a huge body fat percentage running 400mg tren. The guys that do this AKA grow into a SHOW or Lose fat/build mass at the same time, use HUGE stacks.


The worst ineffective way to get things done............I suggested u to burn fat with a deficit and maybe even a fat burner. Pretty sure that is all u need. Take it one step at a time. I'm cutting right now and soon will bulk up.

You think I don't know I started very fat and looking bad? I need to lose fat as best as possible and maintain what little LBM I have. And that's what I'm precisely doing. I'm running a super-charged cut that shows me it's more effective than by doing it the mediocre, banal, natural way which will not just take ages but will deliver sub-par results and huge LBM loss which will end up in me looking skinny fat, flat and starved, yet still with fat left (which I did in the past and know). It makes me look much better than by doing it naturally, it is much more effective, faster and it sheds more fat. Side effects? not much, nothing I can't take. Results showing ? Yes, slowly adding up. Check back for my pics in 23 dec and tell me that I'm wrong then and there's no progress compared to before pics. I will want to hear that. If you and some others will tell me that, I'll instantly drop the cycle.

BTW Both tren and anavar have strong fat burning properties. couple that with cardarine and you have one of the best possible stacks. so why fat burners? Fat burners are a lot more nocive and ineffective than anything i'm running now. I ran lots of fat burners in the past, including Xenadrine and other top rated ones. they are complete junk, nothing but side effects and minimal fat loss. Real substances like AAS are what makes the difference. Working on chemical level to shed the fat. It doesn't take a genius to know that.

How much of a recomp can I achieve with tren? I will be focused 90% on a cut, 10% on mass adding. Considering I have seen many cycle logs and photos of people who dropped 10-12% body fat in 3-4 months by running AAS, I quite think I can achieve something good, at least much better than natural.
 
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You think I don't know I started very fat and looking bad? I need to lose fat as best as possible and maintain what little LBM I have. And that's what I'm precisely doing. I'm running a super-charged cut that shows me it's more effective than by doing it the mediocre, banal, natural way which will not just take ages but will deliver sub-par results (which I did in the past). It makes me look much better than by doing it naturally, it is much more effective, faster and it sheds more fat. Side effects? not much, nothing I can't take. Results showing ? Yes, slowly adding up. Check back for my pics in 23 dec and tell me that I'm wrong then and there's no progress compared to before pics. I will want to hear that. If you and some others will tell me that, I'll instantly drop the cycle.

BTW Both tren and anavar have strong fat burning properties. couple that with cardarine and you have one of the best possible stacks. so why fat burners? Fat burners are a lot more nocive and ineffective than anything i'm running now. I ran lots of fat burners in the past, including Xenadrine and other top rated ones. they are complete junk, nothing but side effects and minimal fat loss. Real substances like AAS are what makes the difference. Working on chemical level to shed the fat. It doesn't take a genius to know that.

Lol. Steroids dont burn fat. Diet, cardio, training and thermos do all together
Of course ur going to get results. Ur in a deficit ED, what do u expect otherwise?
I did look at a few of ur posted progress pics. U keep ur T-shirt on each time?...?
Thermos are not a joke. Clen, ECA and even t3 to some nice results....

U don need to maintain no LBM, nor should u be aiming to gain it. U should be 100% aiming for shedding ur fat nice and slow without ending up with those stupid skin sags that most over wieght people end up getting and hate their body for.


Do u see too that most users posting on ur thread from this board are making fun of u for what ur doing because it's so stupid?
Even a few of them said the same stuff as me because we know wtf to do and UR DOING IT WRONG and over complicating it, when ALL U NEED TO DO IS EAT LESS AND CARDIO damnit man
 
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Lol. Steroids dont burn fat. Diet, cardio, training and thermos do all together
Of course ur going to get results. Ur in a deficit ED, what do u expect otherwise?
I did look at a few of ur posted progress pics. U keep ur T-shirt on each time?...?
Thermos are not a joke. Clen, ECA and even t3 to some nice results....

U don need to maintain no LBM, nor should u be aiming to gain it. U should be 100% aiming for shedding ur fat nice and slow without ending up with those stupid skin sags that most over wieght people end up getting and hate their body for.


Do u see too that most users posting on ur thread from this board are making fun of u for what ur doing because it's so stupid?
Even a few of them said the same stuff as me because we know wtf to do and UR DOING IT WRONG and over complicating it, when ALL U NEED TO DO IS EAT LESS AND CARDIO damnit man

alphabravo, this fella basically says tren and var have no fat burning properties. Do you beg to differ? I am really sick of seeing people on forums talk about AAS not being able to burn fat. Yes they do burn fat, IF you are in a deficit. Ever heard of AAS binding to androgen recetptors, stimulating lypolisis by doing that, increasing IGF-1 in muscle, dropping cortisol to minimum and increasing prostaglandins and insulin sensitivity? Check the studies, check the countless articles and experiences exaplaining that, the internet is full of them. The fat burning effects of tren and anavar are well known and undisputable. That's what you also said and believe. Right, alphabravo?
Saying steroids do not burn fat is like saying wheels are useless in cars. Also check many cycle logs on cuts with AAS, you will see the obvious difference. Just being in a deficit does not work as good for me for shedding fat as being in a deficit on AAS. Again, I have run long cuts naturally with horrible results and ended up being skinny fat, weak and tired. You really have to ignore what AAS are to say that it's the same thing and they don't burn any fat. CERTAIN STEROIDS HELP FAT BURNING INDIRECTLY WITH THEIR EFFECTS ON THE BODY.

omgmike1, again, running a cut on AAS and running a cut without AAS and some useless thermogenics like fat burners (not clen or t3 which I don't want to use), is night and day difference, you cannot even think to compare the results at the end. period. T3 is a muscle waster that will eat both fat and muscle and make you look flat + it's a dangerous substance (thyroid hormone afterall). Clenbuterol is a suicide pill, no thanks.
You are missing many facts and studies that show the contrary to what you're saying. Besides, my own current experience with this cycle shows me it really works that way and AAS stimulate fat burning indirectly and in the end help you be 10 times leaner and better looking than by running a natural cutting. oh , and you can actually lift something from the ground without breaking yourself.

PS No one cares about those who are here to make fun or criticise without knowing facts, no one is going to stand by and support people who are trying to do great things in a different way. As in history, whenever someone tried to do something big and good for humanity, everyone criticised and made a fool of him. Same here, I'm attempting a big transformation and it's going to happen, no matter what the haters and naysayers think. Who cares? Results will speak for themselves and will give them the responses they need. They can joke all they want, but the drugs dont, and that's the only thing that matters and that will make a difference in the end.

Please stop with "Eat less and cardio". Go do that yourself, you are not in my situation to need any effective solutions. It's stupid advice. Even a 1 year old knows that. It's never going to get good results by doing just that. and that brings us to the end of this pointless argument and discussion. Have a nice day.
 
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For those who say steroids don't burn fat...


TRENBOLONE



While all anabolic steroids enhance the metabolism, effectively making all anabolic steroids fat loss steroids, there is one anabolic steroid that stands above the rest. If we were to label one anabolic steroid the ultimate fat loss steroid, it would undoubtedly go to the Trenbolone hormone. Like all anabolic steroids, Trenbolone or Tren as it is commonly known enhances metabolic activity; it simply does it in a more pronounced manner. Further, unlike the majority of anabolic steroids, Trenbolone has a strong, direct effect on lipolysis by the manner in-which it binds so strongly to the androgen receptors which creates a scenario where fat must be burned. Moreover, by its nature, Tren greatly increases nutrient efficiency; simply put, each calorie is utilized to a much greater degree, and far more so than with the use of any other steroid. If that wasn't enough, Tren also promotes the release of the naturally occurring peptide hormone IGF-1; a highly anabolic hormone that affects nearly every cell in the body. Of course, many steroids promote IGF-1 release, but Trenbolone simply does it at a much greater rate. With an increase in IGF-1, as this makes us more anabolic it increases our metabolic rate yet again. As you can easily see, when it comes to fat loss steroids Tren is truly king.

Tren also virtually eliminates cortisol, which adds another strong layer of protection against muscle loss while dieting (which is a inevitable reality) and helps keep fat away and eliminate it easier. Cortisol increases dramatically when cutting naturally, leading to muscle loss and a ineffective overal result as far as fat burning. Simply put, cortisol is a muscle wasting and fat promoting hormone, you dont' want that, Tren takes care of it.

It's been widely disussed of Trens fat burning properties through rises in IGF and Prostaglandins. While IGF is a fairly well known substance in the bodybuilding world today, prostaglandins are fairly unknown in terms of formation and roles in the body.
So below, a brief dicription of prostoglandins and their role in fat burning, "fina cough", and why a person going through Tren administration can experience it's fat burning effects without the dreaded "Cough"

The term prostaglandin comes from the word-Prostate. The first prostoglandins were first dicovered in semen about the mid 1930's and it was thought that prostaglandins were made from the prostate. Since this time, it has been dicovered that most prostaglandins are not even constructed in the prostate.

Prostaglandins are made by two different pathways(Cyclooxygenase and Lipoxygenase), and considering prostaglandins are a group of about 20 lipid cells, they have contrary function; responsible for stimulating as well as alleviating inflammation(Inflammation stimulation is the rapid metabolism of them expelled through the bronchials), regulate blood flow to particular organs, control ion transport across membranes, modulate synaptic transmission, induce sleep, mediate lipid release, and regulate metabolism is various tissue.

Prostaglandins are synthesized from arachidonate(Lipoxygenase which catalyze the dioxygenation of polyunsaturated fatty acids) in the cell membrane by the action of phospholipase A2. Cyclooxygenase and lipoxygenase pathways, compete with one another to form prostaglandins(as well as thromboxane or leukotriene-leukotriene being a bronchial stimulator),
In the cyclooxygenase pathway, the prostaglandins D, E and F plus thromboxane and prostacyclin are made. Thromboxanes are made in platelets and cause constriction of vascular smooth muscle and platelet aggregation
Leukotrienes are made in leukocytes and macrophages via the lipoxygenase pathway. They are potent constrictors of the bronchial airways. They are also important in inflammation and hypersensitivity reactions as they increase vascular permeability.

Being that prostaglandins from either pathway, are still fatty acids of a group, they mediate lipid release and controll tissue metabolization, so fat burning is a luxerry of either pathway of formation. It's the pathway from which they are constructed that dictates "fina cough". As prostaglandins made from the Cyclooxygenase pathway dictate muscle constriction and platlet aggregation, and the Lipoxygenase pathway dictates bronchial constriction(the main form of expulsion)


Refs:
Cackatoo Press
Columbia Encyclopedia 6th Edition
Science Daily Magazine



ANAVAR



But what research has been done on Oxandrolone in terms of how good it is at burning body fat and does this body fat stay off post cycle?

When Anavar was first brought to market, various medical studies were conducted by the US Government, and partly by Savient who manufactured Anavar back in the 1960***8217;s. Moderate Oxandrolone dosages were given to elderly subjects above 60 who were not active which showed promising results. The study indicated that men gain muscle mass and lose fat mass if they take Anavar for 12 weeks. It also showed that 12 weeks following the studies end, the muscle mass was lost. What it did show was that the fat mass lost during this administration period, did stay away.

Another more recent study conducted in 2004 at the University of Southern California in the USA again confirmed the above findings. At a relatively low dose of 20mg every day, the men lost 1.8 kg of fat during a 12-week course of Anavar. Todays Anavar dosages for men seem to start at 40mg every day and some go as high as 100mg every day. 20mg every day is more of a female dose, although the Oxandrolone used in the 2004 US study will be very high quality pharmaceutical grade.

VAT = abdominal fat; SAT = subcutaneous fat; P thigh = fat on the hips; D thigh = fat on the upper legs, above the knee; P IMF = intramuscular fat in the trunk; D IMF = intramuscular fat in the arm and leg muscles.




The table below states that 17% of the fat mass lost during the Anavar course, returned, meaning 83% stayed off following the studies end.


This proves Anavar is a good cutting agent, even when your steroidal cycle is complete, if a good diet is maintained keeping the fat mass off post cycle is a reality.

The more fat the men had lost, the lower their insulin level prior to a meal. A low pre-meal insulin level means that you are sensitive to insulin, and is associated with less inflammatory processes. This means, in layman***8217;s terms, your fat cells won***8217;t store as much fat.




Other pieces of available data confirm Oxandrolone is an excellent choice for a cutting agent. A similar study was done 10 years prior on obese men over 40 years old showing a significant reduction in fat mass, whilst those given Testosterone Enanthate showed an increase in fat mass.



Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1995 Sep;19(9):614-24

Oral anabolic steroid treatment, but not parenteral androgen treatment, decreases abdominal fat in obese, older men.

Lovejoy JC, Bray GA, Greeson CS, Klemperer M, Morris J, Partington C, Tulley R.

Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70808-4124, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To compare the effects of testosterone enanthate (TE), anabolic steroid (AS) or placebo (PL) on regional fat distribution and health risk factors in obese middle-aged men undergoing weight loss by dietary means.


DESIGN: Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial, carried out for 9 months with primary assessments at 3 month intervals. Due to adverse blood lipid changes, the AS group was switched from oral oxandrolone (ASOX) to parenteral nandrolone decaoate (ASND) after the 3 month assessment point. SUBJECTS: Thirty healthy, obese men, aged 40-60 years, with serum testosterone (T) levels in the low-normal range (2-5 ng/mL).

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Abdominal fat distribution and thigh muscle volume by CT scan, body composition by dual energy X-ray absorptiometry (DEXA), insulin sensitivity by the Minimal Model method, blood lipids, blood chemistry, blood pressure, thyroid hormones and urological parameters.

RESULTS: After 3 months, there was a significantly greater decrease in subcutaneous (SQ) abdominal fat in the ASOX group compared to the TE and PL groups although body weight changes did not differ by treatment group. There was also a tendency for the ASOX group to exhibit greater losses in visceral fat, and the absolute level of visceral fat in this group was significantly lower at 3 months than in the TE and PL groups. There were significant main effects of treatment at 3 months on serum T and free T (increased in the TE group and decreased in the ASOX group) and on thyroid hormone parameters (T4 and T3 resin uptake significantly decreased in the ASOX group compared with the other two groups). There was a significant decrease in HDL-C, and increase in LDL-C in the ASOX group, which led to their being switched to the parenteral nandrolone decanoate (ASND) after 3 months. ASND had opposite effects on visceral fat from ASOX, producing a significant increase from 3 to 9 months while continuing to decrease SQ abdominal fat. ASND treatment also decreased thigh muscle area, while ASOX treatment increased high muscle. ASND reversed the effects of ASOX on lipoproteins and thyroid hormones. The previously reported effect of T to decrease visceral fat was not observed, in fact, visceral fat in the TE group increased slightly from 3 to 9 months, although SQ fat continued to decrease. Neither TE nor AS treatment resulted in any change in urologic parameters.

CONCLUSIONS: Oral oxandrolone decreased SQ abdominal fat more than TE or weight loss alone and also tended to produce favorable changes in visceral fat. TE and ASND injections given every 2 weeks had similar effects to weight loss alone on regional body fat. Most of the beneficial effects observed on metabolic and cardiovascular risk factors were due to weight loss per se. These results suggest that SQ and visceral abdominal fat can be independently modulated by androgens and that at least some anabolic steroids are capable of influencing abdominal fat. <--------- THIS WAS AT 20MG/DAY , a women dose. How about 75-100mg/day ? Think again.


Anavar has a tendency to attach to the AR receptors in fat cells around the abdominal and trunk area, thus helping reduce fat in those areas. Not just that it accelerates fat burning, but it has a LOCALIZED effect.




CONCLUSION


You can't argue with facts.

I do not claim to be knowledgeable or able to teach you anything, I am far from it, but please next time, inform yourself better. It's common sense and the will to research properly. Most steroids do not burn fat or effectively do it, but Tren and Var are well known exceptions for this, they have multiple properties that simply help the body better burn fat and protect itself against getting fat. Hell, you can even cut on Testosterone much better than you would naturally. Where should we also put it that the main objective of any cut, maintaining LBM and eliminating fat is absolutely guaranteed by using AAS during a cutting phase, wihch cannot be said regarding doing it naturally, which has much higher chances of wasting more muscle than fat and leading to a skinny fat appearance, a weak metabolism and by consequence hitting multiple plateaus. Generalizing is a sign of broscience. And again, I am seeing it and talking out of my own experience, not just studies and articles, which by all means, are legit evidence. Again and for the last time, my facts on whch I base my decisions are SCIENCE not BROSCIENCE. Saying anavar is good just for women and that steroids don't burn fat , only cardio and diet do, are just plain ignorant mistakes that won't help people see the changes that they want to see and will just prolong their suffering. They're myths long ago debunked by science and lots of people who actually used them and changed their bodies.

Furhtermore, the experience and knowledge of some of the members here who have replied with exhaustive, clear and detailed responses to me in this thread completely contradict you as well regarding the effectiveness of AAS in cutting (see alphabravo's replies)
 
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alphabravo, this fella basically says tren and var have no fat burning properties. Do you beg to differ? I am really sick of seeing people on forums talk about AAS not being able to burn fat. Yes they do burn fat, IF you are in a deficit. Ever heard of AAS binding to androgen recetptors, stimulating lypolisis by doing that, increasing IGF-1 in muscle, dropping cortisol to minimum and increasing prostaglandins and insulin sensitivity? Check the studies, check the countless articles and experiences exaplaining that, the internet is full of them. The fat burning effects of tren and anavar are well known and undisputable. That's what you also said and believe. Right, alphabravo?
Saying steroids do not burn fat is like saying wheels are useless in cars. Also check many cycle logs on cuts with AAS, you will see the obvious difference. Just being in a deficit does not work as good for me for shedding fat as being in a deficit on AAS. Again, I have run long cuts naturally with horrible results and ended up being skinny fat, weak and tired. You really have to ignore what AAS are to say that it's the same thing and they don't burn any fat. CERTAIN STEROIDS HELP FAT BURNING INDIRECTLY WITH THEIR EFFECTS ON THE BODY.

omgmike1, again, running a cut on AAS and running a cut without AAS and some useless thermogenics like fat burners (not clen or t3 which I don't want to use), is night and day difference, you cannot even think to compare the results at the end. period. T3 is a muscle waster that will eat both fat and muscle and make you look flat + it's a dangerous substance (thyroid hormone afterall). Clenbuterol is a suicide pill, no thanks.
You are missing many facts and studies that show the contrary to what you're saying. Besides, my own current experience with this cycle shows me it really works that way and AAS stimulate fat burning indirectly and in the end help you be 10 times leaner and better looking than by running a natural cutting. oh , and you can actually lift something from the ground without breaking yourself.

PS No one cares about those who are here to make fun or criticise without knowing facts, no one is going to stand by and support people who are trying to do great things in a different way. As in history, whenever someone tried to do something big and good for humanity, everyone criticised and made a fool of him. Same here, I'm attempting a big transformation and it's going to happen, no matter what the haters and naysayers think. Who cares? Results will speak for themselves and will give them the responses they need. They can joke all they want, but the drugs dont, and that's the only thing that matters and that will make a difference in the end.

Please stop with "Eat less and cardio". Go do that yourself, you are not in my situation to need any effective solutions. It's stupid advice. Even a 1 year old knows that. It's never going to get good results by doing just that. and that brings us to the end of this pointless argument and discussion. Have a nice day.

I'm not one to get into debates but we did have a similar discussion in PM.

Tren increase feed efficiency and tends to help most users cutting drop some BF, and in studies anavar worked well on VAT but it can be hard to relate that to large AAS cycle doses. I don't think mike is denying they have their purpose in a cut, I believe he's trying to point of that most people use tren when they have a lot more lean mass on them.

I also told you in PM's that I disagreed with your cycle, I was just trying to help you get on the right track because I don't want to see anyone fuck themselves up.

One thing does confuse me, you said a few posts ago you have no symptoms or sides from the tren, now you just listed some common tren sides a few posts later? So do you think your tren is working or not? I still continue to say chalk this up and start over in the new year and run a test only cycle if you truly want to give AAS a go.
 
I'm not one to get into debates but we did have a similar discussion in PM.

Tren increase feed efficiency and tends to help most users cutting drop some BF, and in studies anavar worked well on VAT but it can be hard to relate that to large AAS cycle doses. I don't think mike is denying they have their purpose in a cut, I believe he's trying to point of that most people use tren when they have a lot more lean mass on them.

I also told you in PM's that I disagreed with your cycle, I was just trying to help you get on the right track because I don't want to see anyone fuck themselves up.

One thing does confuse me, you said a few posts ago you have no symptoms or sides from the tren, now you just listed some common tren sides a few posts later? So do you think your tren is working or not? I still continue to say chalk this up and start over in the new year and run a test only cycle if you truly want to give AAS a go.

I have those sides listed since 2 days ago. But I don't notice anything else than those sides. So no idea.
 
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For those who say steroids don't burn fat...


TRENBOLONE



While all anabolic steroids enhance the metabolism, effectively making all anabolic steroids fat loss steroids, there is one anabolic steroid that stands above the rest. If we were to label one anabolic steroid the ultimate fat loss steroid, it would undoubtedly go to the Trenbolone hormone. Like all anabolic steroids, Trenbolone or Tren as it is commonly known enhances metabolic activity; it simply does it in a more pronounced manner. Further, unlike the majority of anabolic steroids, Trenbolone has a strong, direct effect on lipolysis by the manner in-which it binds so strongly to the androgen receptors which creates a scenario where fat must be burned. Moreover, by its nature, Tren greatly increases nutrient efficiency; simply put, each calorie is utilized to a much greater degree, and far more so than with the use of any other steroid. If that wasn't enough, Tren also promotes the release of the naturally occurring peptide hormone IGF-1; a highly anabolic hormone that affects nearly every cell in the body. Of course, many steroids promote IGF-1 release, but Trenbolone simply does it at a much greater rate. With an increase in IGF-1, as this makes us more anabolic it increases our metabolic rate yet again. As you can easily see, when it comes to fat loss steroids Tren is truly king.

Tren also virtually eliminates cortisol, which adds another strong layer of protection against muscle loss while dieting (which is a inevitable reality) and helps keep fat away and eliminate it easier. Cortisol increases dramatically when cutting naturally, leading to muscle loss and a ineffective overal result as far as fat burning. Simply put, cortisol is a muscle wasting and fat promoting hormone, you dont' want that, Tren takes care of it.

It's been widely disussed of Trens fat burning properties through rises in IGF and Prostaglandins. While IGF is a fairly well known substance in the bodybuilding world today, prostaglandins are fairly unknown in terms of formation and roles in the body.
So below, a brief dicription of prostoglandins and their role in fat burning, "fina cough", and why a person going through Tren administration can experience it's fat burning effects without the dreaded "Cough"

The term prostaglandin comes from the word-Prostate. The first prostoglandins were first dicovered in semen about the mid 1930's and it was thought that prostaglandins were made from the prostate. Since this time, it has been dicovered that most prostaglandins are not even constructed in the prostate.

Prostaglandins are made by two different pathways(Cyclooxygenase and Lipoxygenase), and considering prostaglandins are a group of about 20 lipid cells, they have contrary function; responsible for stimulating as well as alleviating inflammation(Inflammation stimulation is the rapid metabolism of them expelled through the bronchials), regulate blood flow to particular organs, control ion transport across membranes, modulate synaptic transmission, induce sleep, mediate lipid release, and regulate metabolism is various tissue.

Prostaglandins are synthesized from arachidonate(Lipoxygenase which catalyze the dioxygenation of polyunsaturated fatty acids) in the cell membrane by the action of phospholipase A2. Cyclooxygenase and lipoxygenase pathways, compete with one another to form prostaglandins(as well as thromboxane or leukotriene-leukotriene being a bronchial stimulator),
In the cyclooxygenase pathway, the prostaglandins D, E and F plus thromboxane and prostacyclin are made. Thromboxanes are made in platelets and cause constriction of vascular smooth muscle and platelet aggregation
Leukotrienes are made in leukocytes and macrophages via the lipoxygenase pathway. They are potent constrictors of the bronchial airways. They are also important in inflammation and hypersensitivity reactions as they increase vascular permeability.

Being that prostaglandins from either pathway, are still fatty acids of a group, they mediate lipid release and controll tissue metabolization, so fat burning is a luxerry of either pathway of formation. It's the pathway from which they are constructed that dictates "fina cough". As prostaglandins made from the Cyclooxygenase pathway dictate muscle constriction and platlet aggregation, and the Lipoxygenase pathway dictates bronchial constriction(the main form of expulsion)


Refs:
Cackatoo Press
Columbia Encyclopedia 6th Edition
Science Daily Magazine



ANAVAR



But what research has been done on Oxandrolone in terms of how good it is at burning body fat and does this body fat stay off post cycle?

When Anavar was first brought to market, various medical studies were conducted by the US Government, and partly by Savient who manufactured Anavar back in the 1960***8217;s. Moderate Oxandrolone dosages were given to elderly subjects above 60 who were not active which showed promising results. The study indicated that men gain muscle mass and lose fat mass if they take Anavar for 12 weeks. It also showed that 12 weeks following the studies end, the muscle mass was lost. What it did show was that the fat mass lost during this administration period, did stay away.

Another more recent study conducted in 2004 at the University of Southern California in the USA again confirmed the above findings. At a relatively low dose of 20mg every day, the men lost 1.8 kg of fat during a 12-week course of Anavar. Todays Anavar dosages for men seem to start at 40mg every day and some go as high as 100mg every day. 20mg every day is more of a female dose, although the Oxandrolone used in the 2004 US study will be very high quality pharmaceutical grade.

VAT = abdominal fat; SAT = subcutaneous fat; P thigh = fat on the hips; D thigh = fat on the upper legs, above the knee; P IMF = intramuscular fat in the trunk; D IMF = intramuscular fat in the arm and leg muscles.




The table below states that 17% of the fat mass lost during the Anavar course, returned, meaning 83% stayed off following the studies end.


This proves Anavar is a good cutting agent, even when your steroidal cycle is complete, if a good diet is maintained keeping the fat mass off post cycle is a reality.

The more fat the men had lost, the lower their insulin level prior to a meal. A low pre-meal insulin level means that you are sensitive to insulin, and is associated with less inflammatory processes. This means, in layman***8217;s terms, your fat cells won***8217;t store as much fat.




Other pieces of available data confirm Oxandrolone is an excellent choice for a cutting agent. A similar study was done 10 years prior on obese men over 40 years old showing a significant reduction in fat mass, whilst those given Testosterone Enanthate showed an increase in fat mass.



Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1995 Sep;19(9):614-24

Oral anabolic steroid treatment, but not parenteral androgen treatment, decreases abdominal fat in obese, older men.

Lovejoy JC, Bray GA, Greeson CS, Klemperer M, Morris J, Partington C, Tulley R.

Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70808-4124, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To compare the effects of testosterone enanthate (TE), anabolic steroid (AS) or placebo (PL) on regional fat distribution and health risk factors in obese middle-aged men undergoing weight loss by dietary means.


DESIGN: Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial, carried out for 9 months with primary assessments at 3 month intervals. Due to adverse blood lipid changes, the AS group was switched from oral oxandrolone (ASOX) to parenteral nandrolone decaoate (ASND) after the 3 month assessment point. SUBJECTS: Thirty healthy, obese men, aged 40-60 years, with serum testosterone (T) levels in the low-normal range (2-5 ng/mL).

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Abdominal fat distribution and thigh muscle volume by CT scan, body composition by dual energy X-ray absorptiometry (DEXA), insulin sensitivity by the Minimal Model method, blood lipids, blood chemistry, blood pressure, thyroid hormones and urological parameters.

RESULTS: After 3 months, there was a significantly greater decrease in subcutaneous (SQ) abdominal fat in the ASOX group compared to the TE and PL groups although body weight changes did not differ by treatment group. There was also a tendency for the ASOX group to exhibit greater losses in visceral fat, and the absolute level of visceral fat in this group was significantly lower at 3 months than in the TE and PL groups. There were significant main effects of treatment at 3 months on serum T and free T (increased in the TE group and decreased in the ASOX group) and on thyroid hormone parameters (T4 and T3 resin uptake significantly decreased in the ASOX group compared with the other two groups). There was a significant decrease in HDL-C, and increase in LDL-C in the ASOX group, which led to their being switched to the parenteral nandrolone decanoate (ASND) after 3 months. ASND had opposite effects on visceral fat from ASOX, producing a significant increase from 3 to 9 months while continuing to decrease SQ abdominal fat. ASND treatment also decreased thigh muscle area, while ASOX treatment increased high muscle. ASND reversed the effects of ASOX on lipoproteins and thyroid hormones. The previously reported effect of T to decrease visceral fat was not observed, in fact, visceral fat in the TE group increased slightly from 3 to 9 months, although SQ fat continued to decrease. Neither TE nor AS treatment resulted in any change in urologic parameters.

CONCLUSIONS: Oral oxandrolone decreased SQ abdominal fat more than TE or weight loss alone and also tended to produce favorable changes in visceral fat. TE and ASND injections given every 2 weeks had similar effects to weight loss alone on regional body fat. Most of the beneficial effects observed on metabolic and cardiovascular risk factors were due to weight loss per se. These results suggest that SQ and visceral abdominal fat can be independently modulated by androgens and that at least some anabolic steroids are capable of influencing abdominal fat. <--------- THIS WAS AT 20MG/DAY , a women dose. How about 75-100mg/day ? Think again.


Anavar has a tendency to attach to the AR receptors in fat cells around the abdominal and trunk area, thus helping reduce fat in those areas. Not just that it accelerates fat burning, but it has a LOCALIZED effect.




CONCLUSION


You can't argue with facts.

I do not claim to be knowledgeable or able to teach you anything, I am far from it, but please next time, inform yourself better. It's common sense and the will to research properly. Most steroids do not burn fat or effectively do it, but Tren and Var are well known exceptions for this, they have multiple properties that simply help the body better burn fat and protect itself against getting fat. Hell, you can even cut on Testosterone much better than you would naturally. Where should we also put it that the main objective of any cut, maintaining LBM and eliminating fat is absolutely guaranteed by using AAS during a cutting phase, wihch cannot be said regarding doing it naturally, which has much higher chances of wasting more muscle than fat and leading to a skinny fat appearance, a weak metabolism and by consequence hitting multiple plateaus. Generalizing is a sign of broscience. And again, I am seeing it and talking out of my own experience, not just studies and articles, which by all means, are legit evidence. Again and for the last time, my facts on whch I base my decisions are SCIENCE not BROSCIENCE. Saying anavar is good just for women and that steroids don't burn fat , only cardio and diet do, are just plain ignorant mistakes that won't help people see the changes that they want to see and will just prolong their suffering. They're myths long ago debunked by science and lots of people who actually used them and changed their bodies.

Furhtermore, the experience and knowledge of some of the members here who have replied with exhaustive, clear and detailed responses to me in this thread completely contradict you as well regarding the effectiveness of AAS in cutting (see alphabravo's replies)

Omfg gtfoh! Lmao google man i use to believe everything i reaad too. You are in for a rude awakening thinking Tren is going to burn fat it helps but nowhere near what you think. I have probably blasted the highest amounts out of most here im talking 300mg ed experimenting. I stayed on tren 1 year+ non stop and i will tell you it takes hard fucken work and to lose bf it takes cardio and clean diet no way around it, thats why i have never been lean i refuse to diet down.

I get ticked off by people like you bugging the lab saying your shit is bunk because you expect to look like a calvin clein model coming in with high bf. All your symptoms tell me the tren is real especially insomnia. I came in with high ass bf and now since 2012 i can finally say im looking pretty fucken decent. You sound lazy and want shit fast the easy way.

Tren e fucken sucks balls thats my ginest opinion 400mg is like 300mg if your lucky once you subtract the ester/solvents. Your anavar more than likely can be fake or something else. When you are new to the game you really dont know where to buy from and can easily be ripped off, and you wouldnt even know if its tbol or winny.

Dont even know why im wasting my time with you because you sound very stubborn like you have everything figured out. Here is the best possible way for a awesome body recomp even with high bf. You need test very very low fat guys like myself look like shit on high test. Then you need 100mg tren ace pinned every other day. Tren likes food it likes carbs you dont have muscle mass so dieting hard is gonna make you look flat and shitty but that's on you. Last and your biggest problem you need a fucken gym! Fuck your excuses i need to get here 1st before i do that. You cant cheat hardwork not even with tren. You need to lift some weights no way around it. If you do all that you will look like a swole fat dude lol i know what im telling you because ive been there. Tren does not burn enough fst to be even noticeable with high bf and dont give me that shit im 29bdont have years ahead of me just sounds lazy and pathetic
 
I'll try and find the study but I believe there was no difference in fat loss at 20mg versus 100mg of var, it seems most of the "fat burning" properties plateau at a low dose.

I think why everyone is giving you so much shit is because of the lack of experience and the fact that you're doing at home dumbbell workouts well on the strongest AAS known to man, many guys use tren to cut with but not typically fellas who are so knew to this world and who do limited a home workouts. I also don't think anyone means direct disrespect, even though the way things are said may sound it lol.

Mike for instance is trying to point out you don't have a shit ton of lean mass currently, so running tren to cut is over kill. If your diet is good and you set a proper deficit with proper training you wont lose much LBM thru natural cutting, fat burners can definitely help too.

Would you be willing to reconsider this cycle at all? Possibly stopping then starting again in the new year with maybe test alone? You really need to get into the gym and do some nice big compound movements.
 
I'll try and find the study but I believe there was no difference in fat loss at 20mg versus 100mg of var, it seems most of the "fat burning" properties plateau at a low dose.

I think why everyone is giving you so much shit is because of the lack of experience and the fact that you're doing at home dumbbell workouts well on the strongest AAS known to man, many guys use tren to cut with but not typically fellas who are so knew to this world and who do limited a home workouts. I also don't think anyone means direct disrespect, even though the way things are said may sound it lol.

Mike for instance is trying to point out you don't have a shit ton of lean mass currently, so running tren to cut is over kill. If your diet is good and you set a proper deficit with proper training you wont lose much LBM thru natural cutting, fat burners can definitely help too.

Would you be willing to reconsider this cycle at all? Possibly stopping then starting again in the new year with maybe test alone? You really need to get into the gym and do some nice big compound movements.

I used tren 100% to bulk and still feel its the best bulker out there. Sure i can take dbol deca test and look like a puffy fat ass. But tren gives you that hard vascular look it took me from im guessing 220lbs to 290lbs since 2012. Obviously i carry a decent anount of fat but i look the best i ever have. Tren not only adds mass bit makes you look amazing within 10 days it is like night and day how much bigger and leaner i look.
 
I used tren 100% to bulk and still feel its the best bulker out there. Sure i can take dbol deca test and look like a puffy fat ass. But tren gives you that hard vascular look it took me from im guessing 220lbs to 290lbs since 2012. Obviously i carry a decent anount of fat but i look the best i ever have. Tren not only adds mass bit makes you look amazing within 10 days it is like night and day how much bigger and leaner i look.

I agree it's a great bulker too, I think that's what makes it such a versatile drug in terms cutting and bulking. It definitely gives the body a distinct look too, my body fat is sitting a touch higher then norm and it's still noticeable, I prefer ace as you mentioned too.

Calindan, I think you should cut natural for a few months and plan to run a test only cycle in the new year or spring if you insist on running AAS. I also think it would be wise to get some bloodwork as you may have low T. I think your expectations of this run will be let down honestly.
 
Omfg gtfoh! Lmao google man i use to believe everything i reaad too. You are in for a rude awakening thinking Tren is going to burn fat it helps but nowhere near what you think. I have probably blasted the highest amounts out of most here im talking 300mg ed experimenting. I stayed on tren 1 year+ non stop and i will tell you it takes hard fucken work and to lose bf it takes cardio and clean diet no way around it, thats why i have never been lean i refuse to diet down.

I get ticked off by people like you bugging the lab saying your shit is bunk because you expect to look like a calvin clein model coming in with high bf. All your symptoms tell me the tren is real especially insomnia. I came in with high ass bf and now since 2012 i can finally say im looking pretty fucken decent. You sound lazy and want shit fast the easy way.

Tren e fucken sucks balls thats my ginest opinion 400mg is like 300mg if your lucky once you subtract the ester/solvents. Your anavar more than likely can be fake or something else. When you are new to the game you really dont know where to buy from and can easily be ripped off, and you wouldnt even know if its tbol or winny.

Dont even know why im wasting my time with you because you sound very stubborn like you have everything figured out. Here is the best possible way for a awesome body recomp even with high bf. You need test very very low fat guys like myself look like shit on high test. Then you need 100mg tren ace pinned every other day. Tren likes food it likes carbs you dont have muscle mass so dieting hard is gonna make you look flat and shitty but that's on you. Last and your biggest problem you need a fucken gym! Fuck your excuses i need to get here 1st before i do that. You cant cheat hardwork not even with tren. You need to lift some weights no way around it. If you do all that you will look like a swole fat dude lol i know what im telling you because ive been there. Tren does not burn enough fst to be even noticeable with high bf and dont give me that shit im 29bdont have years ahead of me just sounds lazy and pathetic

so what do you recommend me to do now besides being a gym? bulk or cut?
 
So a natural cut. but will just a few months of natural cutting be enough to get my bf % low enough? It's hard to believe. How about cutting now on just test prop and cardarine? Wouldn't it be better?
 
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so what do you recommend me to do now besides being a gym? bulk or cut?

I jist looked back at your pics your not even that fat i was fatter shit i might even be fstter now not sure lol but my muscle mass over powers everything ive never heard anything negative about my body exept online cuz thats what us men do talk shit haha.

Honestly dude its just gonna take time no need to be drastic and starve. Your biggest problem is no gym mayne you feel insecure in gym? Nobody cares if you are new we all didnt know shit when we started. If you went and did some light squats and deadlifts you would transform your body and build a base.

Im sorry but im not a guy to recommend cutting or anything natty lol. I busted my ass for 8 years saying i wouldnt touch juice until i figured out thats why guys look so good. If you were dead set on tren ace would make you look great with some hard work. Sorry its not good advice but its all i know. You just need a gym thats all but try test only its a experiment to see what works best for you and its a long journey your ginna make mistakes and keep improving
 
I jist looked back at your pics your not even that fat i was fatter shit i might even be fstter now not sure lol but my muscle mass over powers everything ive never heard anything negative about my body exept online cuz thats what us men do talk shit haha.

Honestly dude its just gonna take time no need to be drastic and starve. Your biggest problem is no gym mayne you feel insecure in gym? Nobody cares if you are new we all didnt know shit when we started. If you went and did some light squats and deadlifts you would transform your body and build a base.

Im sorry but im not a guy to recommend cutting or anything natty lol. I busted my ass for 8 years saying i wouldnt touch juice until i figured out thats why guys look so good. If you were dead set on tren ace would make you look great with some hard work. Sorry its not good advice but its all i know. You just need a gym thats all but try test only its a experiment to see what works best for you and its a long journey your ginna make mistakes and keep improving

Good. I'll go to a gym and cut with test only. For now, I'll stop injecting Tren, i'll just inject Test. Thanks for your good advice ol' friend.
 
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So should I do some PCT now or something? Or just stop injecting and mind my business & continue cut with cardarine.
 
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