My Spring 2018 Cycle.....

[scorob777]

You are just getting into the meat of your cycle now that blood levels have come up to near maximum, and on top of that you are adding an oral. From now to the end you are going to be maxed out, so should see more gains now than you've seen to date.

So my question is why think of changing diet now? You should be trying to cram as much clean food into your mouth as possible and staying at a surplus through to the end.

 

[texas.redneck]

You are just getting into the meat of your cycle now that blood levels have come up to near maximum, and on top of that you are adding an oral. From now to the end you are going to be maxed out, so should see more gains now than you've seen to date.

So this is why I hate long esters and am looking forward to experimenting with some 8-10 week PhenylProp cycles in future. the part about just now getting into the meat of my cycle when I'm like I'm too old for this and my kids got baseball and I have other crap to do besides meal prep and go to the gym so damn much....lol. However, I'm already this far gone. Time to just double down!!

So my question is why think of changing diet now? You should be trying to cram as much clean food into your mouth as possible and staying at a surplus through to the end.

I don't have a problem with this (the cramming as much clean food into my mouth as possible part). I've always been basically constant bulk phase just due to my body type and the fact I usually trained for strength or MMA fighting not aesthetics. However, the one time in my life I tried to cut some bodyfat was last summer (not on a cycle or anything). I did about 6 weeks of keto and cut 195 to 185 and I did kinda like the little extra pop in the abs, chest, and shoulders from just shedding the water out of my muscles and hardening them up some. That's all I wanted to try at the end of this cycle while I was still on the Testosterone because I understand the testosterone will keep me from losing muscle when I cut. So I I have a few options then:

1. do just what you said and who gives a crap about cutting.

2. Do just what you said the next 4 weeks and strict keto last 2 weeks just to drop the water weight and see what muscles look like all hard and stuff.

3. Wait until off cycle after PCT and do a month of Keto when I'm not jacked on anabolics and doing ridiculous intense workouts 4-5 days a week.

My workouts do all have conditioning components to them. Supersets and intervals and conditioning days. So maybe if I just keep pushing on and let the chemicals in my body (tbol and such) do their work I'll naturally lean out and gain muscle....

 

[scorob777]

I'm not knowledgeable about diet in general, but I do have experience going keto for about a year. I'd suggest you don't do #2 because then you'll be going through the gap and PCT in keto, which is a time where you want to keep to the same diet and workout schedule to hold onto the muscle you gained. If anything I'd say #3.

 

[texas.redneck]

I'm not knowledgeable about diet in general, but I do have experience going keto for about a year. I'd suggest you don't do #2 because then you'll be going through the gap and PCT in keto, which is a time where you want to keep to the same diet and workout schedule to hold onto the muscle you gained. If anything I'd say #3.

Even with the number 2 option I wasn't going to go through the gap or PCT on keto. That sounds miserable. I was just going to shed some water weight for a couple weeks then go maintenance mode. But that does seem all like a hassle. I am leaning towards just keep training hard and eating clean and just push on through this. Try that number 3 option about a month off cycle after I get my lab results showing my Testosterone, and everything back to normal, then I Keto for a month and see where I land looks wise.

 

[texas.redneck]

I'm not knowledgeable about diet in general, but I do have experience going keto for about a year. I'd suggest you don't do #2 because then you'll be going through the gap and PCT in keto, which is a time where you want to keep to the same diet and workout schedule to hold onto the muscle you gained. If anything I'd say #3.

Can you tell me a little about Tbol? Like what would the difference between 40mg/ed and 60mg/ed might be? My options here are:

1. I can run it 40mg/ed right up to my last injection of testosterone and that would put me right at 6 weeks on orals also.

2. I can bump up to 60mg/day starting Saturday and that would cut a week off of it (so I'd be 5 weeks on tbol).

3. I can split the difference and go to 50mg/day and land in the middle. I had just said 60 becuase they were 20mg tablets and then I don't have to break in half but not big deal.

I really just wanted to do something to spice up my plain vanilla Test only cycles. I've never done anything else. I just went with Tbol because it was on the list of steroids less likely to accelerate MPB and from reading a little on it, seemed to fit my training goals.

 

[texas.redneck]

Can you tell me a little about Tbol? Like what would the difference between 40mg/ed and 60mg/ed might be? My options here are:

1. I can run it 40mg/ed right up to my last injection of testosterone and that would put me right at 6 weeks on orals also.

2. I can bump up to 60mg/day starting Saturday and that would cut a week off of it (so I'd be 5 weeks on tbol).

3. I can split the difference and go to 50mg/day and land in the middle. I had just said 60 becuase they were 20mg tablets and then I don't have to break in half but not big deal.

I really just wanted to do something to spice up my plain vanilla Test only cycles. I've never done anything else. I just went with Tbol because it was on the list of steroids less likely to accelerate MPB and from reading a little on it, seemed to fit my training goals.

I was writing JP a note on the side and realized I messed up the timeframes in the above math. These would be the three options at either 40, 50, or 60mg a day

1. I can keep running it at 40mg/ed right up to my last injection of testosterone and that would put me right at 7 weeks on orals (so still in the under 6-8 week liver safe zone).

2. I can bump up to 60mg/day starting Saturday and that would cut two weeks off the back end. So I'd be 5 weeks total on tbol and I'd run it almost up to my last shot of Test Cypionate so roughly two weeks left on Prop before PCT

3. I can split the difference and go to 50mg/day and land in the middle for 6 weeks total on Tbol. Leaves me off tbol for about 1.5 weeks of Test Prop before start PCT.

 

[jp4355]

You need to Clear your Inbox................................. JP

 

[texas.redneck]

You need to Clear your Inbox................................. JP

Done

 

[texas.redneck]

Tbol test kit results came back positive for Tbol (I didn't do the one that I could test strength just whether or not the chemicals were present). I upped my Tbol dosage to 60mg.

Struggling to push my bodyweight past 200lbs. I cut back just a little on the food intake the past week just because I was tired of being bloated and crapping all day long. As such, I just been kinda hanging steady for a couple weeks in the 198-200 bw range. I also have not been doing bulking bodybuilding workouts such as bodypart splits with 5-8 reps, etc.. My workouts have been generally full body, lots of supersets, and usually have conditioning components to them (1500m rows, 12 min sprint intervals, sledgehammer finishers, etc.). And since I started the Tbol I've been even more beast mode so probably burning ridiculous calories and no surprise I plateaued at 200.

I still think I"m gaining strength which is really more important to me than gaining mass. It's just hard for me to measure because due to degenerative disc in low back I cut out most of the lifts that I would normally track and measure progress week to week in the past (i.e. Back squat, deadlift, OH Barbell press). been doing Bulgarian split squats (back leg up) or landmine presses, etc. that I'm increasing loads every week but not as easy tracking as squatted 315x5 last week squatted 335x5 this week. Barbell lifts are always the best for progress tracking. About a month ago I did bench and I think I was doing 4 sets of 8 with 225# so I may try that again to see where I stand if I'm adding weight to that.

At any rate, I'm going to try to push myself and consume more calories and get that BW up to 205 these last couple weeks on cycle. I know as soon as I come off cycle I'll drop about 5lbs (or at least that has been previous experience).

 

[texas.redneck]

12.5 asin EOD would be equivalent to 0.25 mg adex EOD. You effectively doubled your dose when you switched.

following up on this comment, I went to 0.5 adex e3d and seems to be a good maintenance level for me. That's probably closer to the 12.5 asin EOD or somewhere in between the two.

 

[texas.redneck]

You are just getting into the meat of your cycle now that blood levels have come up to near maximum, and on top of that you are adding an oral. From now to the end you are going to be maxed out, so should see more gains now than you've seen to date.

So my question is why think of changing diet now? You should be trying to cram as much clean food into your mouth as possible and staying at a surplus through to the end.

yeah that was a good call on the cramming as much clean food as I can. I was up to 203lbs on my Saturday weigh in and I'm feeling pretty good now about cruising to about 205lbs before this cycle is over in couple of weeks (I started at 183-185). I thought I stalled out last week between 198 to 200 but I think I got a bad mid-week weigh in that showed me at 198. Sometimes I get these outlier weigh in's every couple months that show me 2-3lbs lighter than I anticipated. Not sure why as I use the exact same beam scale at the same gym every time. My morning and evening weights usually only fluctuate 1-2lbs and I know those differences.

 

[scorob777]

A 20# gain sounds pretty good. Any thoughts on how much is muscle and how much you'll be able to keep?

 

[texas.redneck]

A 20# gain sounds pretty good. Any thoughts on how much is muscle and how much you'll be able to keep?

I have no idea but we will find out soon. I'm trying to wind down this cycle in the next two weeks and get through PCT. I'm pyramiding the Tbol so it will have been 40-60-60-40 and last tbol with last Test Cyp injection and then a week on prop and then a week on nothing except maybe one last shot of HCG and I"ll start Nolva/Clomid.

Let me know what tips you have as far as diet and exercise I should follow when going through PCT. I've never paid much attention to that in the past. I'll obviously have to cut back the exercise quite a bit. I've been doing 4 days about 1:15 to 1:30 per workout pretty intense sometimes don't get out of gym for 1:45. My normal routine not on PED's is simply a 3-4 day training split under 60 minutes (and that includes my 15-20 minutes of warmups just so I don't injure myself).

Here are some pics I took last Wednesday at around 200lbs I think (I'm not good at the flex poses....). Traditionally I'll come off a cycle and drop 5lbs. I may be able to offset some of that if I want to start on creatine.

 

[jp4355]

You look Great in your Pics.

Whenever I'm coming off of a Cycle, I switch up my Training.
On-Cycle it's always Heavy in the Lower to Medium Rep Range for Hypertrophy.

Off-Cycle, I've found that going to Lighter Weight, but Higher Reps, helps me keep my Muscle Mass.
While giving my Joints/Tendons/Ligaments the Break they need from the Higher Loads.
But still keeping the Intensity of my Workouts.

And No Sudden Changes to my Diet.
Any Change that is needed, I do Gradually.

I keep a Journal and log everything, so I can look back and see how I progressed.
This comes in handy for Future Reference.............................. JP

 

[texas.redneck]

A 20# gain sounds pretty good. Any thoughts on how much is muscle and how much you'll be able to keep?

Also, I think that dose of Adex I've been on has kept me fairly dry as far as estrogen related water weight plus the Tbol I understand is a dry steroid. So I don't think I'll immediately lose a bunch of water weight. The only bloat I've been feeling is related to the volume of clean food I've been trying to consume every day. I'm eating and crapping all day long and some days I just over do it and feel way bloated and so the next day I have to lighten up the food intake a little.

 

[texas.redneck]

A 20# gain sounds pretty good. Any thoughts on how much is muscle and how much you'll be able to keep?

The other thing you have to consider is that I could have naturally done everything exactly like I did the past 3 months (i.e. same diet, exercise, etc.) and I would have naturally gone from about 185-195. I have lots of muscle memory and it wasn't but a year or so ago I was walking around at 195 and that's where I spent most of my working out life at. So all the steroid cycle did was really bumped me up 10lbs in my opinion. So I'm really looking at it like a 10# gain as opposed to what you said above as a 20# gain...

 

[PapaNoel]

The other thing you have to consider is that I could have naturally done everything exactly like I did the past 3 months (i.e. same diet, exercise, etc.) and I would have naturally gone from about 185-195. I have lots of muscle memory and it wasn't but a year or so ago I was walking around at 195 and that's where I spent most of my working out life at. So all the steroid cycle did was really bumped me up 10lbs in my opinion. So I'm really looking at it like a 10# gain as opposed to what you said above as a 20# gain...

Ive both heard and thought about this a lot "muscle memory".
Is there any truth too that ? Or just more a myth/wishful thinking ?

Anecdotal i want to say yes, because I worked out insanely much on top of several sports basically from 10 to 20 and when i started gym again at 30, i grew insanely much just the first 6 months natty.
Then i did a failure cycle but had pretty good gains that I lost due to drug abuse and the first 2-3 weeks of this cycle I was gaining kilos immediately, which would indicate getting back what I lost from last cycle.

But I still have doubts in my mind it would actually work like this, because it doesn't make sense... Why would building muscle be accelerated for having been grown before ?
Isn't the time needed to grow a constant value ?

 

[texas.redneck]

I don't disagree with you, per se, but I do think it is a real thing. Now it could be that we are simply more experienced and we know exactly what to feed ourselves, how to develop our training programs, and listen to our bodies that we significantly expedite the process of getting back to where we were. But there is something to how our muscles work. I was 150lbs when I was 18 years old and first really started getting into "workout out" which at the time was 90s style bodybuilding. I hit various training plateaus on my road to 205lbs naturally over the course of 18 years old to 24 years old. But every time I surpassed a plateau and then remained above that weight for an extended period of time (say a year) then that kind of became my new norm. In other words, I was never going to shrink back down to 150lbs again like when i was 18 years old. after being in the 195-205 range for many many years, if i took a month or so or even a year of not really being serious about working out (you know like maintenance mode) the most I'd shrink is to 185 to190. Like that was my new floor. So somehow our muscles remember this stuff and adapt.

Ive both heard and thought about this a lot "muscle memory".
Is there any truth too that ? Or just more a myth/wishful thinking ?

Anecdotal i want to say yes, because I worked out insanely much on top of several sports basically from 10 to 20 and when i started gym again at 30, i grew insanely much just the first 6 months natty.
Then i did a failure cycle but had pretty good gains that I lost due to drug abuse and the first 2-3 weeks of this cycle I was gaining kilos immediately, which would indicate getting back what I lost from last cycle.

But I still have doubts in my mind it would actually work like this, because it doesn't make sense... Why would building muscle be accelerated for having been grown before ?
Isn't the time needed to grow a constant value ?

 

[PapaNoel]

Yeh that makes sense. Ive heard 3J talk about something similar with diet and how you're body likes to stay in certain weights (give or take a few pounds) so you have to push that for it to become the new norm as you put it.
Also read that our bodies are so smart that you can reattach limbs and the corresponding cells on each sides know how to "find" each other and heal without being put back at the exact identical p osition

The thing that gets me is how illogical it is that muscle growth would be accelerated just due to the fact it has been enlarged before. That too me at least, doesn't make sense.

 

[texas.redneck]

I just googled muscle memory. Looks like there are a few articles explaining how it occurs.

Yeh that makes sense. Ive heard 3J talk about something similar with diet and how you're body likes to stay in certain weights (give or take a few pounds) so you have to push that for it to become the new norm as you put it.
Also read that our bodies are so smart that you can reattach limbs and the corresponding cells on each sides know how to "find" each other and heal without being put back at the exact identical p osition

The thing that gets me is how illogical it is that muscle growth would be accelerated just due to the fact it has been enlarged before. That too me at least, doesn't make sense.