New Lab Results...Very troubling

[newtohrt]

Ya know, one of these days I'm going to see you post that you've found the answer to why you're a complete non-responder, and I'm gonna have to give my monitor a big hug. (no homo) It kills me knowing people are out there that cannot benefit from testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), which has changed my life so drastically.

Thanks man! When that day comes I will hug my monitor right back (no homo) I can't wait...reading about all you guys and your awesome testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) results is what keeps me from throwing in the towel all together on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). I have gone off 3 times in the last two years and honestly, I don't feel much worse off vs. on, but seeing how well it works for a lot of guys keeps me trying.

 

[willnorthwest]

newtohrt....have you EVER felt "dialed in" since starting trt? The reason why I ask, is because for about a month or so after i started testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), i felt like a million bucks. something happened, however, and that awesome feeling slowly started to fade away for me. that being said, I know that I must, in fact, have a sweet spot. finding it again is my goal!!!!

 

[totalburnout]

thanks riprock....always appreciate your info!

also, I did donate blood 2 days ago after i got the hematocrit results!!! dude that needle was frickin' intimidating!!!! lol

Why was the needle intimidating?

 

[totalburnout]

yeah rip....when I first started testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) my e2 was 9. Obviously my total t was also low at 219, but I wonder how much that low e2 of 9 then, and 13 now might be playing in to my symptoms. when I was feeling great on the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) was when I first started, about a month and a half in, and that was when I wasnt taking any Aromatase inhibitor (AI). Obviously my E must have raised to that "sweet spot" so to speak at some point. It was only after I started to feel slightly bloated and tired again that i re-tested my e2 sensitive. it had raised to 47 and that is when I initiated the Adex. obviously I am an Adex over-responder because .50mg every 5 days re-drove my E down to 13!!!!! only time will tell if raising that E just a little more will put me at that sweet spot again, i promise to re-test in 3 weeks and post my results!!!!

You have your answer right there.

Too low of E2 will feel just as bad, if not worse, than too low of T. What I've learned through all of this hormone replacement therapy is that most of the downsides are a result of E2 levels and not T levels.

An E level of 47 wasn't very high and I'd suspect that you jumped the gun. You have to realize that the important part is not the number but the ratio between T and E2. For those of us that now have very high T levels because of exogenous T injections, need to have our E2 levels higher than average as well.

Cut down to .25mg arimidex and see how you feel. Also, I'm not sure why you're taking the arimidex AFTER the injections. I take the anastrozole with the injections because it prevents conversion to E2. If the T has already been converted to E2, it does nothing.

 

[totalburnout]

newtohrt....have you EVER felt "dialed in" since starting trt? The reason why I ask, is because for about a month or so after i started testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), i felt like a million bucks. something happened, however, and that awesome feeling slowly started to fade away for me. that being said, I know that I must, in fact, have a sweet spot. finding it again is my goal!!!!

Sounds like you're chasing the dragon.

You don't feel like a million bucks always. Be glad your feeling lasted for a month. Mine lasted for a week. This isn't a magic pill, you get accustomed to it and it becomes your "new normal". You still get feelings of being down, tired, etc but even the healthiest people do.

 

[newtohrt]

Never Dialed In

newtohrt....have you EVER felt "dialed in" since starting trt? The reason why I ask, is because for about a month or so after i started testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), i felt like a million bucks. something happened, however, and that awesome feeling slowly started to fade away for me. that being said, I know that I must, in fact, have a sweet spot. finding it again is my goal!!!!

Sadly no, it has always felt basically like I was injecting saline. I mean, my blood tests show my T being a lot higher, but I have never felt anything other than a very slight bit more energy than when I am off. That is it, unfortunately.

 

[willnorthwest]

That needle was frickin' huge man!!!! i pin my cyp with a meager 25 gauge. I believe the needle for the blood donation was like 18 gauge!

 

[Megatron28]

16 gauge actually. I asked. In case you don't know, 16 guage = harpoon.

 

[halfwit]

16 gauge actually. I asked. In case you don't know, 16 guage = harpoon.

I get a 14 gauge tomorrow for my first apheresis too. Good times!

Newtohrt: I don't remember, but have you tried going to supraphysiological levels? It's frowned upon talking about cycling in this forum, but honestly - it's something to think about if you haven't and would be for medical purposes. I've been reading about some men seeing great results by doing this and then returning back to testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) levels after a controlled "saturation" period. I'll try to find the article I was reading and put it up.

 

[willnorthwest]

I get a 14 gauge tomorrow for my first apheresis too. Good times!

Newtohrt: I don't remember, but have you tried going to supraphysiological levels? It's frowned upon talking about cycling in this forum, but honestly - it's something to think about if you haven't and would be for medical purposes. I've been reading about some men seeing great results by doing this and then returning back to testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) levels after a controlled "saturation" period. I'll try to find the article I was reading and put it up.

i would love to see that article. are you talking about "blasting"?

 

[Megatron28]

I get a 14 gauge tomorrow for my first apheresis too. Good times!

Newtohrt: I don't remember, but have you tried going to supraphysiological levels? It's frowned upon talking about cycling in this forum, but honestly - it's something to think about if you haven't and would be for medical purposes. I've been reading about some men seeing great results by doing this and then returning back to testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) levels after a controlled "saturation" period. I'll try to find the article I was reading and put it up.

Isn't the theory behind this that sometimes you need to "wake up" the testosterone receptors by shocking them with a big blast of T?

 

[halfwit]

i would love to see that article. are you talking about "blasting"?

Blasting is for recreational use, what the docs are doing is called "receptor saturation". They're really the same thing, but for different reasons. I'm digging through my history, but as I've been at home a bit lately - there's a TON to go through haha.

Edit: I found ONE of the studies I was reading which documents the BENEFITS of supraphysiological levels of AAS, but it only really touches on hypogonadal males. It's a TON to take in, but has some really great info, so I think sharing this while I keep looking could help those that want more information: http://rphr.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/57/1/411

 

[halfwit]

Isn't the theory behind this that sometimes you need to "wake up" the testosterone receptors by shocking them with a big blast of T?

Yep, that's exactly it. I just can't find the damn article that put it that way.

 

[newtohrt]

Last summer I experimented with higher levels for 6 weeks, but I just had a ton of water retention and high blood pressure. I did not gain any strength or experience any libido, unfortunately. I think (although this is just a hypothesis) that since my SHBG is so low, my body could not use the higher levels at all. I probably needed way more Adex at the higher levels as well, since as I understand it, water retention can be caused by high E2.

It might be worth another try though - I am up for trying almost anything to get this to work.

 

[newtohrt]

Why was the needle intimidating?

I have donated blood every 8 weeks for about three years straight now, and it doesn't really bother me, but I still get a quick shiver down my back when I see the size of that needle. It just looks way too big somehow when you are used to, say a 25 gauge or an insulin pin.

 

[Megatron28]

Last summer I experimented with higher levels for 6 weeks, but I just had a ton of water retention and high blood pressure. I did not gain any strength or experience any libido, unfortunately. I think (although this is just a hypothesis) that since my SHBG is so low, my body could not use the higher levels at all. I probably needed way more Adex at the higher levels as well, since as I understand it, water retention can be caused by high E2.

It might be worth another try though - I am up for trying almost anything to get this to work.

How much T were you taking during that 6 week period and how much AI?

Your symptoms definitely sound like high E2. Like you said, probably worth giving it another shot and try managing your E2 better.

 

[willnorthwest]

Hey guys...im back. It's been about two weeks since I last posted. Since we last spoke, I have took ya'lls recommendations and started pinning every 3 days instead of every 5 days. previous protocol was 100mg cyp every 5days, with 500iu hcg the day before each injection, and .50mg adex the day after. My current protocol has been 50mg cyp every 3 days and .20mg adex, with 250iu hcg the day before each injection.
The reason I switched to this current protocol was because I was experiencing increasing levels of anxiety, tiredness, and depressive attitude. Well, currently I am still experiencing this and more!

Here are my test results from a few weeks ago.
Testosterone, Total 906.1 348-1197
Free Testosterone 37 8.7-25.1 FLAGGED HIGH
SHBG 11.5 16.5-55.9 FLAGGED LOW
TSH .960 .450-4.500
Estradiol Sensitive 13 3-70
Thryoxine (T4) 8.1 4.5-12.0
Triiodothyronine(T3) 113 71-180
Triiodothryonine, Free 3.8 2.0-4.4
RBC 5.81 4.14-5.80 FLAGGED HIGH
Hematocrit 51.4 37.5-51.0 FLAGGED HIGH

I have an appointment with my endo on June 19th, so hopefully he can figure out WTF is going on! I feel such like shit now. It's getting worse, not better. Im having major anxiety throughout the day, I wake up many times throughout the night, I wake up tired as hell, and have no energy whatsoever. It is very very hard for me to get out of bed in the mornings, as my depressive mood coupled with my tiredness keeps me from wanting to even get up.
This will be the first time I will be meeting with this endo, and hopefully he will be able to help. I dont even know what his thoughts are on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), so Im going into this meeting with him pretty blind. What are some things that I might want him to look into for me? I have heard that I might want to discuss Thyroid issues, Adrenal Fatigue maybe, DHEA, Pregnenolone.

As usual, your thoughts and advice are highly recommended.....Thanks. Will

 

[Megatron28]

Hey guys...im back. It's been about two weeks since I last posted. Since we last spoke, I have took ya'lls recommendations and started pinning every 3 days instead of every 5 days. previous protocol was 100mg cyp every 5days, with 500iu hcg the day before each injection, and .50mg adex the day after. My current protocol has been 50mg cyp every 3 days and .20mg adex, with 250iu hcg the day before each injection.
The reason I switched to this current protocol was because I was experiencing increasing levels of anxiety, tiredness, and depressive attitude. Well, currently I am still experiencing this and more!

Here are my test results from a few weeks ago.
Testosterone, Total 906.1 348-1197
Free Testosterone 37 8.7-25.1 FLAGGED HIGH
SHBG 11.5 16.5-55.9 FLAGGED LOW
TSH .960 .450-4.500
Estradiol Sensitive 13 3-70
Thryoxine (T4) 8.1 4.5-12.0
Triiodothyronine(T3) 113 71-180
Triiodothryonine, Free 3.8 2.0-4.4
RBC 5.81 4.14-5.80 FLAGGED HIGH
Hematocrit 51.4 37.5-51.0 FLAGGED HIGH

I have an appointment with my endo on June 19th, so hopefully he can figure out WTF is going on! I feel such like shit now. It's getting worse, not better. Im having major anxiety throughout the day, I wake up many times throughout the night, I wake up tired as hell, and have no energy whatsoever. It is very very hard for me to get out of bed in the mornings, as my depressive mood coupled with my tiredness keeps me from wanting to even get up.
This will be the first time I will be meeting with this endo, and hopefully he will be able to help. I dont even know what his thoughts are on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), so Im going into this meeting with him pretty blind. What are some things that I might want him to look into for me? I have heard that I might want to discuss Thyroid issues, Adrenal Fatigue maybe, DHEA, Pregnenolone.

As usual, your thoughts and advice are highly recommended.....Thanks. Will

I can't recall. Did you suffer from anxiety and depression before going on TRT?

Might want to discuss taking aromasin instead of arimidex.

 

[willnorthwest]

Yes, I have struggled with anxiety and depression for many years now. I take an SSRI called Paxil at 10mgs per day. It is a relatively low dose. When I first started testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), all of my anxiety and depression went away. That lasted for about a month and a half, and then it started to creep back on me. Now, however, I actually feel more anxious and depressed than I ever have before!

 

[willnorthwest]

When I first started testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), I went from 190lbs to 210lbs in 3 months. pretty much all muscle, no bullshit. I was sleeping like a baby, waking up before my alarm and feeling completely rested. I had a great attitude, energy for days, and felt like I could tackle the world. About a month ago, I noticed those feelings start to wane, and at present, i feel worse than I ever have in my life!!!!!