New Lab Results...Very troubling

[Megatron28]

When I first started testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), I went from 190lbs to 210lbs in 3 months. pretty much all muscle, no bullshit. I was sleeping like a baby, waking up before my alarm and feeling completely rested. I had a great attitude, energy for days, and felt like I could tackle the world. About a month ago, I noticed those feelings start to wane, and at present, i feel worse than I ever have in my life!!!!!

I've seen a lot of guys here with anxiety and depression problems get off ssri's once they got going on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). Hopefully that will be your case too. Are you still taking your Paxil or did you stop once you started feeling better? I would discuss whether or not you should stay on Paxil with your doc especially given that you felt like you didn't need them that short period of time.

And as everyone has been saying all along you need to get your estradiol dialed in. My suspicion is that estradiol is causing many of your problems. You felt great when you first started injecting Test and then estradiol probably creeped into the picture.

Lastly, get another set of labs run so you can bring them to your endo appt. Then you will actually have some data points to talk about. I like to list them in an excel spreadsheet with the different tests down the left and the dates across the top. That helps you identify trends. I always try to go into a doctor appointment with numbers to talk about. Getting your labs run before the appointment makes your appointment much more productive.

 

[willnorthwest]

I have continued to take them. I did for awhile start to taper off of them. I went from 10mgs, down to 7 over three months, however, when I noticed my anxiety and depression coming back, I did go back to 10mgs.

I do think that Estrogen is a big player in my current troubles. My appt is on 6/19, so I dont know if I will be able to have the labs done in time. What I think I'll do is request that my endo run another full gamut of tests.

Mega.....is it possible that Lab Corps Estradiol Sensitive test could be faulty? On my last labs, my Estradiol Sensitive test was 13, but i did have the regular Estradiol test done (Roche Method) and it came back at 33. Im still trying to figure out what Estradiol level i need to be at to feel good.

 

[Megatron28]

I have continued to take them. I did for awhile start to taper off of them. I went from 10mgs, down to 7 over three months, however, when I noticed my anxiety and depression coming back, I did go back to 10mgs.

I do think that Estrogen is a big player in my current troubles. My appt is on 6/19, so I dont know if I will be able to have the labs done in time. What I think I'll do is request that my endo run another full gamut of tests.

Mega.....is it possible that Lab Corps Estradiol Sensitive test could be faulty? On my last labs, my Estradiol Sensitive test was 13, but i did have the regular Estradiol test done (Roche Method) and it came back at 33. Im still trying to figure out what Estradiol level i need to be at to feel good.

Of course it is possible, but not likely that it is faulty.

Get the Female Hormone Panel. They turn that panel around in 24 hours. If you go in on Monday you will have the results in time.

 

[willnorthwest]

i think my E is real high right now. i went on vacation last week, drank 4 or 5 beers each night. not only do i feel severely anxious and depressed, but im also feeling a bit bloated right now in my stomach region. im also very hot.

should i go ahead and up my Aromatase inhibitor (AI) dosage a bit and see how that goes?

 

[Megatron28]

i think my E is real high right now. i went on vacation last week, drank 4 or 5 beers each night. not only do i feel severely anxious and depressed, but im also feeling a bit bloated right now in my stomach region. im also very hot.

should i go ahead and up my Aromatase inhibitor (AI) dosage a bit and see how that goes?

No. Get the lab test on Monday. You're last E2 sensitive result had you at 13. You don't want to go even lower. I totally get that gyno fears fuck with your head. Believe me, I know. You have to try and remain objective. It takes time to increase your estradiol. It doesn't happen over night. And remember that you can lower it a whole lot faster with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) than you can increase it.

Lay off the alcohol until you get things figured out. That isn't going to make things any easier.

 

[willnorthwest]

okay mega....i went ahead and ordered the female panel from lab corp. hopefully the results will be ready for my appt on the 19th. thanks

also.... i will just continue with my current protocol until those results come in and i see the endo. i wont increase the ai

 

[totalburnout]

Jeez man, relax. Quit playing with everyone so you can figure out a trend.

It's pretty clear as day as of your last bloodwork, your estrogen is LOW. If anything, lower your Adex to .25mg every other day. You feel bloated because you drank 4-5 beers a night, not because your estrogen skyrocketed.

Also by injecting .50mg T every 3 days, you've lowered your dose of T significantly from injecting 100mg every 5 days. This will also alter how you feel.

 

[halfwit]

Hey guys...im back. It's been about two weeks since I last posted. Since we last spoke, I have took ya'lls recommendations and started pinning every 3 days instead of every 5 days. previous protocol was 100mg cyp every 5days, with 500iu hcg the day before each injection, and .50mg adex the day after. My current protocol has been 50mg cyp every 3 days and .20mg adex, with 250iu hcg the day before each injection.
The reason I switched to this current protocol was because I was experiencing increasing levels of anxiety, tiredness, and depressive attitude. Well, currently I am still experiencing this and more!

Here are my test results from a few weeks ago.
Testosterone, Total 906.1 348-1197
Free Testosterone 37 8.7-25.1 FLAGGED HIGH
SHBG 11.5 16.5-55.9 FLAGGED LOW
TSH .960 .450-4.500
Estradiol Sensitive 13 3-70
Thryoxine (T4) 8.1 4.5-12.0
Triiodothyronine(T3) 113 71-180
Triiodothryonine, Free 3.8 2.0-4.4
RBC 5.81 4.14-5.80 FLAGGED HIGH
Hematocrit 51.4 37.5-51.0 FLAGGED HIGH

I have an appointment with my endo on June 19th, so hopefully he can figure out WTF is going on! I feel such like shit now. It's getting worse, not better. Im having major anxiety throughout the day, I wake up many times throughout the night, I wake up tired as hell, and have no energy whatsoever. It is very very hard for me to get out of bed in the mornings, as my depressive mood coupled with my tiredness keeps me from wanting to even get up.
This will be the first time I will be meeting with this endo, and hopefully he will be able to help. I dont even know what his thoughts are on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), so Im going into this meeting with him pretty blind. What are some things that I might want him to look into for me? I have heard that I might want to discuss Thyroid issues, Adrenal Fatigue maybe, DHEA, Pregnenolone.

As usual, your thoughts and advice are highly recommended.....Thanks. Will

I'm curious what your endo has to say, but I think you should back down on the adex. That's a pretty strange range in my opinion as most guys I know have a happy zone from 25-35pg/dL, so you might just be a little low on the E2. Oh, and you definitely need to go donate blood my friend.

 

[willnorthwest]

Maybe I should I just stop the Adex altogether and see what happens? Im supposed to take .20 mg 2morow morning along with my 50mg cyp. This problem has to be the adex, wouldnt you assume? Here is a post from someone on a different forum:

"Re: Arimidex side effects
Originally Posted by neelydan
I took about 0.5-1.0mg/week for a little over 2 weeks.

My symptoms started with insomnia and joint clicking/cracking. Then I got horrible anxiety attacks and even more depressed than before to the point of being nearly psychotic! I also developed a large welt-like sore on my leg that took months to go away.

This was research chemical arimidex, so who knows exactly what I took, but it was probably adex based on my reaction."

This is exactly what I am experiencing minus the joint clicking/cracking and welt. What do you think?

 

[totalburnout]

Read my post above LOL. I already told you to halve your Adex dosage.

If you're not gyno prone, you can go with no Adex for a few days until your E2 climbs a bit. That's what I do whenever I get my estrogen too low. The hCG or large T shots make estrogen climb like crazy for me.

 

[Megatron28]

Maybe I should I just stop the Adex altogether and see what happens? Im supposed to take .20 mg 2morow morning along with my 50mg cyp. This problem has to be the adex, wouldnt you assume? Here is a post from someone on a different forum:

"Re: Arimidex side effects
Originally Posted by neelydan
I took about 0.5-1.0mg/week for a little over 2 weeks.

My symptoms started with insomnia and joint clicking/cracking. Then I got horrible anxiety attacks and even more depressed than before to the point of being nearly psychotic! I also developed a large welt-like sore on my leg that took months to go away.

This was research chemical arimidex, so who knows exactly what I took, but it was probably adex based on my reaction."

This is exactly what I am experiencing minus the joint clicking/cracking and welt. What do you think?

Will -- you know what we all think. At 50mg 2x/week you very well may not need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). Good thing you are getting that blood test on Monday so you can stop guessing. Post your results when you have them. Just keep in mind that it has only been two weeks since you changed your protocol so it probably has not taken full effect yet.

We need you to come in off the ledge Will. I know it sucks finally feeling good and thinking all of your problems have been solved only to have the rug pulled out from under you. But getting your hormones in balance is a process that can take a little time and a bunch of labs. But stick with it and I promise you that you will get it dialed in. You can't overreact and freak out at the slightest hiccup. Everytime you make a change it takes time to play out.

 

[willnorthwest]

guys Im not trying to be difficult. im just concerned about my health. thank you all for your input....it is greatly appreciated.

totalburnout.....please dont "lol" at my situation. i dont think it's funny at all.

 

[halfwit]

Maybe I should I just stop the Adex altogether and see what happens? Im supposed to take .20 mg 2morow morning along with my 50mg cyp. This problem has to be the adex, wouldnt you assume? Here is a post from someone on a different forum:

"Re: Arimidex side effects
Originally Posted by neelydan
I took about 0.5-1.0mg/week for a little over 2 weeks.

My symptoms started with insomnia and joint clicking/cracking. Then I got horrible anxiety attacks and even more depressed than before to the point of being nearly psychotic! I also developed a large welt-like sore on my leg that took months to go away.

This was research chemical arimidex, so who knows exactly what I took, but it was probably adex based on my reaction."

This is exactly what I am experiencing minus the joint clicking/cracking and welt. What do you think?

Yeah, I'd go a week without and see how you feel. The joints clicking/cracking is typical if one takes too much and crushes their E2, which dries out the joints. If you start to see swelling in the face or feet and your nipples get itchy/sore - time to hop back on, but at a lower dose.

 

[1693]

Might be like that article you found and your body doesn't like arimidex....dropping it now will mess up your consistency for the BW but maybe it's for the best....I'd shop for some aromasin since I've heard that arimidex makes a guy sick story a few times now.

Good Luck!

 

[willnorthwest]

Hey guys....quick update. I have stopped taking the Arimidex altogether. It has been almost 4 or 5 days since my last Adex dosage, and I am definitely starting to feel better. Yesterday, all that anxiety, panic, and depression has pretty much dissipated completely. Im also not as tired, and I have slept much better the past two nights. Maybe you guys are right about the low E2. I dont know if its the Adex specifically or the low E2 caused by the Adex, but since I have laid off of it, i definitely feel better.
Mega....I went ahead and had the bw done this morning, so we will have some results hopefully by this time tommorow. Appt with Endo on 6/19.

 

[willnorthwest]

Hey guys....got the results back from privatemdlabs.
Testosterone Total 1041 348-1197
Estradiol 46.1 7.6-42.6 FLAGGED HIGH
Hematocrit 50.0 37.5-51.0

Well.... The Estradiol level is a little odd to me. I know my E2 cant really be that high, because on my last bw 3 weeks ago, the Estradiol score was 32.2, but the Estradiol Sensitive score was only 13!!!!!!!! Unfortunately I didnt do an Estradiol Sensitve test this go around. I'll probably do one sometime next week. Plus, Im actually feeling pretty darn good right now. Im not tired, my anxiety and depressive mood is almost nil. I'm sleeping good again, and Ive been killin' it at the gym.

 

[Megatron28]

Hey guys....got the results back from privatemdlabs.
Testosterone Total 1041 348-1197
Estradiol 46.1 7.6-42.6 FLAGGED HIGH
Hematocrit 50.0 37.5-51.0

Well.... The Estradiol level is a little odd to me. I know my E2 cant really be that high, because on my last bw 3 weeks ago, the Estradiol score was 32.2, but the Estradiol Sensitive score was only 13!!!!!!!! Unfortunately I didnt do an Estradiol Sensitve test this go around. I'll probably do one sometime next week. Plus, Im actually feeling pretty darn good right now. Im not tired, my anxiety and depressive mood is almost nil. I'm sleeping good again, and Ive been killin' it at the gym.

The rule of thumb I have heard is that you should subtract 10-15 points from the regular estradiol lab test. That would put you in the low 30's which is perfect. Try staying off the adex and see how you continue to feel. Might be worth getting another blood test in about a month.

Glad to hear that you are feeling better.

 

[willnorthwest]

I was wondering what else I might want to test for at privatemdlabs besides the typical E2 and testosterone. Im still experiencing some tiredness issues and was thinking that maybe I should check my vitamin d levels among others. What are some other things that I might want to check for.....dhea, prolactin,thyroid, cortisol?

 

[totalburnout]

Thyroid and cortisol is a good start. Sleep apnea would also be another cause to those sort of problems or just being sleep deprive and/or having poor nutrition.

 

[SolomonGrundy]

id say lose the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and loose the HCG, 100 mg test C every 5 days , your E2 is way low, HCG just mimics LH it does nothing for production, unless you want babies id use as little meds as necessary