No gains after 8 week test cycle

[darksniper87]

Dear members, I'd like your advice for a situation of one of my friend.
This year he decided to make his first Test cycle consisting 500mg Test C, alomgside with 0.25 Arimidex EOD.
He is 27 years old, training for 5 years and he is 1.82m tall, he has 12% bodyfat and now he weights 95kg.

The issue, is that even after 8weeks of Test cycle, he didn't really felt anything. His body is now just like other times when he was natty.
His diet is fine. He is consuming more than 4k cals per day, (300gr protein at least), which is more than enough for bulking.

In fact, we started believing that our gear was fake for sure. But the blood test showed that they were legitimate.
His test was over 1500ng/dl (it was the max value of the lab) and also his estrogen was very high, 120pg/ml,
meaning that he needed to increase his arimidex dosage.

Also another info is that he sleeps 6 hours max, because he gets up very early on morning.
His job is a little bit rough (he is building houses), that's why is consuming the high amount of cals I mentioned before.

Anyway to conclude, what do you think it went wrong with his case?
Did the high estrogen level may affected him?
Is it possible that because he didn't rest enough throughout the day, that it may affect his gains (although he told me he never felt too tired)?

TIA

 

[tx045]

If you were taking 500mg and you tt was at 1500 your gear is more than likely underdosed if not bunk. Did you have pre-cycle bloodwork? 1500 sounds about like 250mg which would barely put you put of the normal range and not that much more than natty. You'd prob see some gain but not nearly as much as if your tt were at the 3000 range.

 

[Megatron28]

Is he training? Has he seen increases in strength and improved recovery time? How about increased glycogen retention?

He does need to get at least 7-8 hours of sleep. He needs to make time for this.

He should increase his AI dose.

 

[Southernfish]

A few things come to mind as to why he didnt make progress.

1. He only ran Test C for 8 weeks. It takes, give or take, 5 weeks for the Cyp ester to reach peak levels.

2. You said he was consuming 4K+ cals per day. Depending on how hard he is working throughout the day and his BMR that might not have been enough calories for him.

3. Not enough rest, and TOO much physical exertion causing a possible overtraining situation even though he may not have been directly overtraining in the gym.

 

[Mad- scientist]

I feel like 500mgs is enough to make some one grow like crazy if they havent cycled before. His blood test stopping at 1500 only proves that he is taking real stuff it could still be under dosed. I feel like with 500mgs of legit testosterone your friend should have at least noticed a decent strength increase and gained a little bit of weight though.

 

[darksniper87]

A few things to clarify. Unfortunately the max value of TT the lab shows is 1500. So we don't know exactly how much his TT is. Also his cycle is 12 weeks long and he is his 8th week now.

So the most possible reason for not making any gains you think is the lack of rest?
This is what I also though at first. I mean he sleeps less than 6 hours and then he is also doing a tough job. But he told me that he really doesn't feel tired, which was the only positive symptom he had being on cycle, unlike previous times where most of the time he was feeling exhausted becauae of this rough day at job.

 

[Megatron28]

A few things to clarify. Unfortunately the max value of TT the lab shows is 1500. So we don't know exactly how much his TT is. Also his cycle is 12 weeks long and he is his 8th week now.

So the most possible reason for not making any gains you think is the lack of rest?
This is what I also though at first. I mean he sleeps less than 6 hours and then he is also doing a tough job. But he told me that he really doesn't feel tired, which was the only positive symptom he had being on cycle, unlike previous times where most of the time he was feeling exhausted becauae of this rough day at job.

That and he may need to eat more calories.

300g of protein is overkill too. 1g per pound of body weight is a good target.

 

[oldmusclemike]

Who is coaching him and what does the coach say. Who pit his cycle together for him and how educated is he in the use of AAS.

May I ask why isn't he here asking and learning so we can talk to him. There is so much to talk about here. Do either of you know why the use of AI and the symptoms and sides of High as well as Low E2. Not a good idea to go through so many people in my opinion.

Can you see if h can get on board and go from there. Welcome

 

[Teutonic]

4k calories and 300 grams of protein. AAS and training.
He s overtraining w re to overall activities
Needs sleep
Bunk gear
This is bunk thread ? No offense ! Of late I can t tell shit from shinola

 

[Hypnotix]

So he's 5'11, 12% BF and 215lb + or -..

I would be hard pressed to say he'd gain much more without increasing his calories. 6 hrs of sleep.. 5 hours.. w/e..

1500ng is quite low for 500mg and so that Lab doesn't really do the quality of your product justice. You need to know more than just Ultra High Range of a natural male! This is supplemented Test, you should see values in the 2000's.. what if your product was 1600ng? It could be underdosed and you'll never know..

Moving on..

My first cycle with 500mg Test I went from 178lbs to 206lbs. I am 5'8". I started around 15% BF, and ended near 20%.

I was guided to progressively increase calories by increments of 300-600 per week after plateauing in growth. Once I plateaued again, I'd increase calories again. And so on.

So... starting at 3500 calories, eating 300g protein per day.. and then loading calories in over the course of the Test's 12 weeks, I ended at an average of 7200 calories per day! I have quite the metabolism, and I also worked a very tough job. This is basic stuff really.. the nitty gritty of that plan I had, can be discussed with our local dietician 3J.

Back to your buddy... from my perspective, whilst taking his career into specific consideration and comparing it to my struggles.. I would say he needs to increase his calories. 4000 calories may be enough for you, or someone who sits at a computer for a job.. but not for someone doing hard physical labor.

Tell him to start eating, or his cycle will go to complete waste.

His estrogen is high too. Up the AI dosage. Slowly. He may find that he's been cutting this whole time once all the water leaves his body! >

Tell him to take his training down to EOD, take weekends off. 1 week do 4 days, next week do 3. Rest in between each workout. Adjust muscle groups worked accordingly. The rest between will help, I promise it. His CNS is likely not keeping up with the career + training combined workload.

Hope this helps!

 

[Megatron28]

His labs read TT >1500.

 

[Milton]

So he's 5'11, 12% BF and 215lb + or -..

I would be hard pressed to say he'd gain much more without increasing his calories. 6 hrs of sleep.. 5 hours.. w/e..

1500ng is quite low for 500mg and so that Lab doesn't really do the quality of your product justice. You need to know more than just Ultra High Range of a natural male! This is supplemented Test, you should see values in the 2000's.. what if your product was 1600ng? It could be underdosed and you'll never know..

Moving on..

My first cycle with 500mg Test I went from 178lbs to 206lbs. I am 5'8". I started around 15% BF, and ended near 20%.

I was guided to progressively increase calories by increments of 300-600 per week after plateauing in growth. Once I plateaued again, I'd increase calories again. And so on.

So... starting at 3500 calories, eating 300g protein per day.. and then loading calories in over the course of the Test's 12 weeks, I ended at an average of 7200 calories per day! I have quite the metabolism, and I also worked a very tough job. This is basic stuff really.. the nitty gritty of that plan I had, can be discussed with our local dietician 3J.

Back to your buddy... from my perspective, whilst taking his career into specific consideration and comparing it to my struggles.. I would say he needs to increase his calories. 4000 calories may be enough for you, or someone who sits at a computer for a job.. but not for someone doing hard physical labor.

Tell him to start eating, or his cycle will go to complete waste.

His estrogen is high too. Up the AI dosage. Slowly. He may find that he's been cutting this whole time once all the water leaves his body! >

Tell him to take his training down to EOD, take weekends off. 1 week do 4 days, next week do 3. Rest in between each workout. Adjust muscle groups worked accordingly. The rest between will help, I promise it. His CNS is likely not keeping up with the career + training combined workload.

Hope this helps!

Thanks for sharing this!

 

[Dreaded Pirate Roberts]

It just starting to kick in focus on the diet. It not about total calories it,s the right calories at the right time in the right amount. He needs a diet consultant.

And sleep. 6 hrs its going to cut it.

 

[3J]

i agree.. it seems like if the gear and training is on point he wasn't consuming enough cals... if his job is highly labor intensive and he has a fast metabolism 4k calories might have not been enough

he should have been upping calories every week to see weight gain.. again poor nutritional protocol will lead to no results..

im not coming down on the guy... 4k calories is a decent amount of food.. if he had a office job he prob would have seen nice gains..

but you have to have a plan with your nutrition.. thats why my clients gain 30lbs on a cycle and keep most of it..

plan ahead.. be organized.. 80% diet