On the road to TRT...opinions/feedback appreciated!

[lancerevo]

Wanted to start a fresh thread to log my journey on the path of TRT. Found out I had low T back in April and have been spending countless hours of research everyday since then to get a full understanding of what's going on. I feel like I've done or am doing almost everything to get my test up without actually starting TRT. Below are my chronicles. Would appreciate any feedback/opinions!

Background:
Been having symptoms for years, but just recently got the time to get blood work done. 26 y/o male been having symptoms of Low T - poor sleep, constant fatigue, absolute no sex drive. I train very seriously, lift 4-5x a week, and my nutrition is spot on. Currently 175 pounds around 13% BF, waist ~33 inches. Just been having poor recovery which is what got me to get BW back in April. Kinda new I had low test as I had it checked when I was 22 and was in the mid 400s then for total t. Have never done anabolic steroids before

Medical history
High blood pressure - used to run high at 160 but with lifestyle changes now down to 130
Diagnosed with hiatal hernia so have acid reflux from that

Current med list:
Omeprazole for a acid reflux
Isotonix Multi vitamin, B vitamins, OPC-3, calcium
Vitamin C 2-4g
Vitamin D 10K IU
Fish oil 2 caps
DHEA 50mg
Pregnenolone 25mg
Glutamine
Creatine

All blood work uses labcorp values

April blood work:
CBC:
WBC 5.1
Hemoglobin 15.3
Hematocrit 44.3
MCV 88

CMP:
Glc 87
BUN 16
Cr 1.16
Sodium 139
Potassium 4.3
Chloride 101
Carbon Dioxide 25
Calcium 9.8
AST 36
ALT 34

Lipids:
Total Cholesterol 134
Triglycerides 55
HDL 38
LDL 85
VLDL 11

Hemoglobin A1c 5.3

Thyroid Panel
TSH 2.070 (0.450 - 4.5)
Free T4 1.30 (0.82-1.77)
Free T3 3.7 (2-4.4)
Reverse T3 19.7 (9.2-24.1)
Thyroid Peroxidase Antibody 6 (0-34)

Adrenal Panel
Aldosterone 5.6 (0-30) Borderline low
ACTH 27.5 (7.2-63.3)
Cortisol AM 14.1 (6-19)
DHEA Sulfate 144.9 (138.5-475) Borderline low
Pregnenolone 105 (<150)

Vitamin B12 1287 HIGH (211-946)
Folate 13.2 >3
Vitamin D 25 Hydroxy 28 LOW (30-100)
Magnesium 2.1
Selenium 144 (79-326)
Zinc 149 HIGH (56-134)
Ferritin 39 (30-400)
Iodine 69
Homocystein 5.8
ESR 2
CRP <1.0


Total Testosterone 438 (348-1197)
Free Testosterone 6.8 LOW (9.3-26.5)
FSH 3.9 (1.5-12.4)
LH 3.3 (1.7-8.6)
Prolactin 13.6 (4-15.2)
Estradiol 18.8 (7.6-42.6) (not sensitive)
PSA 0.2



After these tests I started on vitamin D, DHEA, vitamin c

Repeat tests in June:

Total test 515
Free test 8.8
SHBG 37
Estradiol sensitive panel 4 (3-72)
DHEA 233
Vitamin D 41

I also got a sleep study to rule out sleep apnea which came back negative.

Also got an MRI head which show a VERY tiny pituitary microadenoma which was 1mm in size.

Rechecked my prolactin which came back at 8
Don't think pituitary is a cause for my low test.

Saw an anti aging doc and endo who both wanted to start me on test. I opted to start for clomid first as a trial and they both agreed.


Some things that I have also changed and tried:
Went almost fully organic, including organic shampoo lotion soap etc
Water filters and boiling all my water
No plastics
Did a parasite cleanse with wormwood - no change from this
Tried ZMA - have me decent sleep but got bad headaches from this
Currently trying to reduce any electromagnetic frequency while sleeping to reduce all that sleep disruption

 

[lancerevo]

So currently these are my theories on my low testosterone :

1. Some form of adrenal fatigue. All my adrenal hormones are low. I have started supplementing pregnenolone for the past 3 weeks, also have been eating a ton more eggs to increase my cholesterol. Will be checking BW again in 2 weeks.

2. Some form of thyroid disruption. TSH is a tad high at 2. Even though my free T3 and Ft4 are great, my rT3 is high with a ratio of 18.8 for fT3:rT3 and I know the optimal ratio is >20. This is further compounded by the fact that my body temps are very consistent at 97.3-97.7 all day long. Currently on iodine supplementation and will recheck levels. Elevated rT3 could also be from stress and adrenal fatigue.

3. Iatrogenic low T. If the preg, eggs, iodine don't help fix my T, I will be starting clomid at the beginning of sept.




I've also been pondering about my SHBG. I see it is on the higher side...I've been doing everything I can except actually taking reversitol to bring it down naturally.

Sucks having a Total T in 500's (which is normal for some ppl on TRT to be on) but having a free test of 8!!

 

[Spunkey71]

You are way over thinking all of this! What are your stats, age, weight, BF%, have you ever run a cycle, etc?

 

[lancerevo]

You are way over thinking all of this! What are your stats, age, weight, BF%, have you ever run a cycle, etc?

haha yeah i might be, but if I end up going down the TRT pathway, at least I can say I've tried everything possible to bring up my test and explored every option of why it might be low.

Stats were in the opening post but i'm 26 y/o, 6ft 175 pounds, ~13% BF, and have never done AAS before.

 

[Spunkey71]

haha yeah i might be, but if I end up going down the TRT pathway, at least I can say I've tried everything possible to bring up my test and explored every option of why it might be low.

Stats were in the opening post but i'm 26 y/o, 6ft 175 pounds, ~13% BF, and have never done AAS before.

I would have given anything to have natty TT in the 500's, mine was 64 when I started TRT. TRT is a lifelong commitment so I agree that you should try other things before making that commitment. Improving your sleep would probable have the most positive effect on your TT. I like you tried the ZMA years ago and I too got head aches from it. I recently started taking 400mg of Magnesium citrate 30 minutes before going to sleep and have found it to work very well. It allows me to relax and not be restless when sleeping therefor I fall asleep quicker and sleep throughout the night without waking multiple times.

 

[Virginian]

You are not a candidate for TRT. Your T levels are good and you are too young. TRT is for life.

 

[lancerevo]

I would have given anything to have natty TT in the 500's, mine was 64 when I started TRT. TRT is a lifelong commitment so I agree that you should try other things before making that commitment. Improving your sleep would probable have the most positive effect on your TT. I like you tried the ZMA years ago and I too got head aches from it. I recently started taking 400mg of Magnesium citrate 30 minutes before going to sleep and have found it to work very well. It allows me to relax and not be restless when sleeping therefor I fall asleep quicker and sleep throughout the night without waking multiple times.

what one person may feel at 500 total test is completely different as what another person may feel. It's not universal. And doesn't help that my free test is below low end of normal.

I think it's the magnesium that gives me the headaches, as it's a smooth muscle relaxant. I take zinc and B6 separately in other vitamins and don't have any problems with those. But i will give another shot at just plain Magnesium.

I get a good 8 hours of sleep a night. The only problem is I keep waking up to pee, ~ 1-2 times per night. The magnesium did help with that though

You are not a candidate for TRT. Your T levels are good and you are too young. TRT is for life.

I don't consider a free test @ 8.8, which is less than the normal low end range, as good. And at 26 I should be in the 800's, not in the 400-low 500's.

as you can see my SHBG is elevated as well, which is why even though I have a relatively high total test, my free test is garbage.

and I'm fully aware TRT is for life, hence i'm trying EVERYTHING i can to get my levels up without going on TRT.

 

[Megatron28]

what one person may feel at 500 total test is completely different as what another person may feel. It's not universal. And doesn't help that my free test is below low end of normal.

I think it's the magnesium that gives me the headaches, as it's a smooth muscle relaxant. I take zinc and B6 separately in other vitamins and don't have any problems with those. But i will give another shot at just plain Magnesium.

I get a good 8 hours of sleep a night. The only problem is I keep waking up to pee, ~ 1-2 times per night. The magnesium did help with that though



I don't consider a free test @ 8.8, which is less than the normal low end range, as good. And at 26 I should be in the 800's, not in the 400-low 500's.

as you can see my SHBG is elevated as well, which is why even though I have a relatively high total test, my free test is garbage.

and I'm fully aware TRT is for life, hence i'm trying EVERYTHING i can to get my levels up without going on TRT.

Not sure where you got the idea that TT should be at 800ng/dl when you are 26 years old. At age 26 your TT has not even hit its peak yet. The average 26 year old has TT around 600ng/dl. You are not that far off that mark. Improve your diet and get better sleep and get some exercise and you could be at 600.

You need to get your Vitamin D higher. That affects T levels. If it helps, I take 5000iu daily and that puts me around 90 (30-100 range).

I don't think you need TRT. You just need to make some lifestyle changes.

 

[novaman]

Your T level is good.

Go visit Your Brain On Porn and make sure you've got that stuff covered.

 

[lancerevo]

I thank you all for replying, but I don't understand how you guys can say my total testosterone is normal at 500 when my free testosterone is not even range. Every source I read says to go by the free testosterone...since that is the one that is biologically active, and the rest is bound to SHBG and inactive. I could even have a total test of 900 and have symptoms of low test if my free test is at 8 which is still out of range.

I'm not trying to sound like I want to go on TRT, because it's not as you can see i'm trying to do everything but to go on it...

How else do you guys explain my complete lack of sexual desire, very weak erections, and absolute no ejaculate volume?

Edit: And for the record, my sleep and diet could not be any better. Get solid 7-9 hours of sleep every night, dont' stay up late anymore, and my diet has been close to impeccable for several years now. I'm also at 10K IU for Vitamin D. All these tests are at me running at my optimal.

 

[Spunkey71]

I thank you all for replying, but I don't understand how you guys can say my total testosterone is normal at 500 when my free testosterone is not even range. Every source I read says to go by the free testosterone...since that is the one that is biologically active, and the rest is bound to SHBG and inactive. I could even have a total test of 900 and have symptoms of low test if my free test is at 8 which is still out of range.

I'm not trying to sound like I want to go on TRT, because it's not as you can see i'm trying to do everything but to go on it...

How else do you guys explain my complete lack of sexual desire, very weak erections, and absolute no ejaculate volume?

It is obvious that no one is going to say anything that you will agree with, you have your mind made up that you want to use gear so go ahead and go to the AAS section and learn about a proper cycle and get it over with. The TRT section is for us individuals that have a health condition and are on doctor prescribed TRT not the place for someone who wants to use gear but would rather call it TRT instead of a cycle.

 

[Megatron28]

I thank you all for replying, but I don't understand how you guys can say my total testosterone is normal at 500 when my free testosterone is not even range. Every source I read says to go by the free testosterone...since that is the one that is biologically active, and the rest is bound to SHBG and inactive. I could even have a total test of 900 and have symptoms of low test if my free test is at 8 which is still out of range.

I'm not trying to sound like I want to go on TRT, because it's not as you can see i'm trying to do everything but to go on it...

How else do you guys explain my complete lack of sexual desire, very weak erections, and absolute no ejaculate volume?

Bioavailable T is more important than Free T.

There are many possible causes of low libido, ED and low ejaculate volume. Normal TT and Low Free Testosterone is not the most likely cause of those problems.

Just curious, what are your LH and FSH at?

 

[cybrsage]

There are dozens of things that can cause what you are seeing. Chronic pot use is one of them (not light, recreational use, but hardcore use), just as an example.

 

[lancerevo]

It is obvious that no one is going to say anything that you will agree with, you have your mind made up that you want to use gear so go ahead and go to the AAS section and learn about a proper cycle and get it over with. The TRT section is for us individuals that have a health condition and are on doctor prescribed TRT not the place for someone who wants to use gear but would rather call it TRT instead of a cycle.

It's not the question of agreeing or disagreeing with me, I want everyone to be on the same page (or me with you guys if my facts are wrong). I am here to learn, and clearly all the information from publications and journals are wrong it seems like from what you guys are telling me, so with everyone being on the same page I am looking for advice.

I have stated multiple times I have been doing everything to not get on gear. And I'll state it one more time.

Bioavailable T is more important than Free T.

There are many possible causes of low libido, ED and low ejaculate volume. Normal TT and Low Free Testosterone is not the most likely cause of those problems.

Just curious, what are your LH and FSH at?

What is a normal bioavailable testosterone value then?

And great - so what are other causes for it? Because I would like to know and fix it so I don't need to hop on TRT.

All labs were posted in the first post, but LH and FSH were 3.3/3.9. Opinions?

Edit - you also realize my estradiol levels are super low right? If I have normal testosterone why don't I have normal estrdiol levels?

There are dozens of things that can cause what you are seeing. Chronic pot use is one of them (not light, recreational use, but hardcore use), just as an example.

I don't do any hardcore use for any drugs.

What are other causes than low T? Or I guess not low t since that's not what I have?

 

[lancerevo]

And I hope you guys see a fallacy in saying I don't have Low T - my Estradiol levels are in the gutter. a level of 4 using the correct test - the sensitive assay?? Clearly I don't have enough testosterone being converted to Estradiol.

PLEASE correct me if I have been understanding any of this in the wrong way...don't just tell me i'm wrong but point me in the right direction.

 

[Megatron28]

It's not the question of agreeing or disagreeing with me, I want everyone to be on the same page (or me with you guys if my facts are wrong). I am here to learn, and clearly all the information from publications and journals are wrong it seems like from what you guys are telling me, so with everyone being on the same page I am looking for advice.

I have stated multiple times I have been doing everything to not get on gear. And I'll state it one more time.



What is a normal bioavailable testosterone value then?

And great - so what are other causes for it? Because I would like to know and fix it so I don't need to hop on TRT.

All labs were posted in the first post, but LH and FSH were 3.3/3.9. Opinions?

Edit - you also realize my estradiol levels are super low right? If I have normal testosterone why don't I have normal estrdiol levels?



I don't do any hardcore use for any drugs.

What are other causes than low T? Or I guess not low t since that's not what I have?

Read The Basic TRT Overview sticky thread in this forum. That will help answer some of your questions.

 

[lancerevo]

Read The Basic TRT Overview sticky thread in this forum. That will help answer some of your questions.

I've read it plenty of times. Can you answer my questions directly please? Explain how my estradiol levels are super low if I have normal test?

I feel like you guys are just telling me I don't have low test and pushing me away. That's great if I don't, but you guys still haven't provided any other reason why I have my symptoms even with a FULL blood work panel posted above.

 

[Megatron28]

I've read it plenty of times. Can you answer my questions directly please? Explain how my estradiol levels are super low if I have normal test?

I feel like you guys are just telling me I don't have low test and pushing me away. That's great if I don't, but you guys still haven't provided any other reason why I have my symptoms even with a FULL blood work panel posted above.

You are taking two prohormones. That is probably messing up your natural hormone levels. Your estradiol looked a lot better before taking the prohormones.

I don't have the bioavailable normal ranges memorized and every lab is different. You can look it up on Google though.

 

[lancerevo]

You are taking two prohormones. That is probably messing up your natural hormone levels. Your estradiol looked a lot better before taking the prohormones.

I don't have the bioavailable normal ranges memorized and every lab is different. You can look it up on Google though.

Come on man, at least look at my blood work properly before you say something like that.

The "better" estradiol level was the regular assay - I had even stated that it wasn't the sensitive assay. My regular estradiol level was 14 when the sensitive estradiol came back at 4, which was the first time I had ever checked the sensitive value along with the regular assay, just showing how much higher and off the regular one is.

 

[Megatron28]

Come on man, at least look at my blood work properly before you say something like that.

The two "better" estradiol levels were the regular assay - I had even stated that they weren't the sensitive assay. My regular estradiol level was 14 when the sensitive estradiol came back at 4, which was the first time I had ever checked the sensitive value.

I read that. You have to remember that the blood work is just a picture in time too.

Your TT has looked good in both sets of labs.