On the road to TRT...opinions/feedback appreciated!

[lancerevo]

So thought I'd give a little update:

Got repeat BW done:
TT: 542
FT: 8.7 (9.3-24)
Estradiol Sensitive: 6 (3-70)
SHBG: 36.5 (16.5-55.9)

I'm still confused with my results. Everyone here says I don't have low testosterone, but that doesn't explain why I have such low Estradiol - may the low Estradiol is what is causing all my "hypogonadal" symptoms. But If I have low E2, that means I don't have enough Test to convert to the E2?

Also got a Semen analysis. Results showed <100,000 sperm/ml, where normal is around 20 million sperm/ml. I have the results of an infertile man. Last time I checked, sperm had everything to do with testosterone.

I started Clomid at the beginning of the month - to see if my test levels increase at all (whether I'm primary or secondary) and to see if it helps with my sperm count for when I want to have kids. Haven't felt any relief in the "hypogondal" symptoms in the past 2 weeks I've been on Clomid...will be getting BW and semen analysis again next week to check results. I will most probably be stopping Clomid next week as I definitely feel more anxious, moody, depressed, and emotional all around since starting it.

 

[Megatron28]

LH?
FSH?

What is the reference range for your SHBG result? In general it is good to include reference ranges for all results.

TT looks great by the way!

 

[lancerevo]

LH?
FSH?

What is the reference range for your SHBG result? In general it is good to include reference ranges for all results.

TT looks great by the way!

all reference ranges are labcorp values. So SHBG 16.5-55.9, Estradiol is 3-70, and Free test is 9.3-24

LH and FSH was also done along with this batch (all pre Clomid).
LH: 3.5
FSH: 4.3

Any theories as to why my E2 is low? And could that be the cause of all my symptoms?

 

[Alpin]

Hey, atleast you don't have high normal estradiol with that T level. That in itself is crap.
How old are you and what b.f % are you?
TT and Bio Avail. T are the most accurate for diagnosis of hypogonadism.

 

[Megatron28]

all reference ranges are labcorp values. So SHBG 16.5-55.9, Estradiol is 3-70, and Free test is 9.3-24

LH and FSH was also done along with this batch (all pre Clomid).
LH: 3.5
FSH: 4.3

Any theories as to why my E2 is low? And could that be the cause of all my symptoms?

Low E2 causes the Testosterone spigot to remain open. It is high E2 that tells your pituitary to shut down test production.

I don't know why your E2 is low. Are you taking any supplements? Ever use AAS? Can't remember -- how is your thyroid? What do your lipids look like? As A poll on asked, what is your body fat %? How much sleep do you get a night? Any signs of sleep apnea?

 

[Alpin]

What dose of clomid are you on?
How long have you been on it?
If just a couple of weeks on it i would hold off on the tests.
You need to run it longer to have it really kick in for sperm count. A couple weeks is nothing.

 

[Alpin]

Trust me its a good thing your estradiol is low normal.
It's not like you are on arimidex lowering it.
This estradiol sensitive test you did was before clomid ?

 

[lancerevo]

Hey, atleast you don't have high normal estradiol with that T level. That in itself is crap.
How old are you and what b.f % are you?
TT and Bio Avail. T are the most accurate for diagnosis of hypogonadism.

I'm 26 and BF ~15% now. I will get %bio available test next time I get BW done.

Low E2 causes the Testosterone spigot to remain open. It is high E2 that tells your pituitary to shut down test production.

I don't know why your E2 is low. Are you taking any supplements? Ever use AAS? Can't remember -- how is your thyroid? What do your lipids look like? As A poll on asked, what is your body fat %? How much sleep do you get a night? Any signs of sleep apnea?

I am taking lots of supplements, but none of which should affect my E2 levels. I had low E2 even at baseline before starting any supplements. However, I also drew a normal E2 level (not sensitive) and that came back at 17.9, which seems more reasonable. So don't know which one to believe.

Never used AAS. Thyroid levels were great, had a TSH of around 2 but free T3 and free T4 were perfect mid range, my body temps average 97.7 (upon waking) to 98.6.

My lipids are all normal, in fact a little low. Total Cholesterol is around 130.

BF% around 15%. Get a solid 7-9 hours of sleep every night. Had a sleep study done which was negative for any sleep apnea.

What dose of clomid are you on?
How long have you been on it?
If just a couple of weeks on it i would hold off on the tests.
You need to run it longer to have it really kick in for sperm count. A couple weeks is nothing.

I am on 12.5mg every day of Clomid. Just started at the beginning of the month, so about 2 weeks now. I was going to do BW at the end of the month. I would hope to see even a little bit change by then shouldn't I?

Trust me its a good thing your estradiol is low normal.
It's not like you are on arimidex lowering it.
This estradiol sensitive test you did was before clomid ?

Yes all tests were before Clomid. And this is true, although I would hope the low E2 is not causing my symptoms, as low E2 can cause very similar symptoms as low T from my understanding.

 

[Megatron28]

Low cholesterol can be bad for your T levels. It is a precursor to testosterone.

What supplements are you taking?

 

[lancerevo]

Low cholesterol can be bad for your T levels. It is a precursor to testosterone.

What supplements are you taking?

Yes I'm very well aware low cholesterol is not good. In response to that I started eating at least 3 eggs a day and started taking pregnenolone for a month. For some reason those 2 gave me really bad anxiety....when I stopped those the anxiety went away, and I started them again and the anxiety came back. So I stopped it altogether, and that cholesterol actually dropped after the whole month of eating eggs!

The supplements were listed on the first page, but:
Isotonix Multivitamin, B Vitamins, Calcium and Vitamin D, Iodine, DHEA, Fish Oil, Vitamin C, Creatine, Glutamine

 

[Alpin]

12.5 mg ED is a smart dose. How you feeling so far?
1 month on it is too little. Stay on it longer if you can.
Test for estradiol, lh, fsh, tt

 

[lancerevo]

12.5 mg ED is a smart dose. How you feeling so far?
1 month on it is too little. Stay on it longer if you can.
Test for estradiol, lh, fsh, tt

Ya I started with 12.5 after doing a lot of my own research!

Now that I've been thinking about it....I think the Clomid might actually be working - very subtle effects, but still working. In the past, after I work out 4 times (even in a 2 week period) I would always get symptoms of being deathly tired, very irritable, groggy eyes, feel like death, serious muscle twitching, elevated resting HR (all symptoms I've attributed to overtraining/under recovering from my own experiments), but in the past 2 weeks i've worked out 7 times and I'm feeling pretty good, absolutely no twitching. I also feel like my sleep is a little better, I feel probably around 25-50% more rested when I wake up in the mornings.

The fatigue isn't completely gone, but it's manageable now. The only other thing is my libido is still shot and in the beginning I felt I was more emotional/depressed but I think I may be getting better now or that was a placebo effect.

 

[Alpin]

Ya I started with 12.5 after doing a lot of my own research!

Now that I've been thinking about it....I think the Clomid might actually be working - very subtle effects, but still working. In the past, after I work out 4 times (even in a 2 week period) I would always get symptoms of being deathly tired, very irritable, groggy eyes, feel like death, serious muscle twitching, elevated resting HR (all symptoms I've attributed to overtraining/under recovering from my own experiments), but in the past 2 weeks i've worked out 7 times and I'm feeling pretty good, absolutely no twitching. I also feel like my sleep is a little better, I feel probably around 25-50% more rested when I wake up in the mornings.

The fatigue isn't completely gone, but it's manageable now. The only other thing is my libido is still shot and in the beginning I felt I was more emotional/depressed but I think I may be getting better now or that was a placebo effect.

Sounds good. Remember those labs and pituitary hormones need checking...especially estradiol. Measure them when you are on the stuff for a couple months and then when you are off the stuff for a couple months.
But at that dose if you feel ok just stay on it.....
It will help restart you better in the long run.

 

[lancerevo]

Sounds good. Remember those labs and pituitary hormones need checking...especially estradiol. Measure them when you are on the stuff for a couple months and then when you are off the stuff for a couple months.
But at that dose if you feel ok just stay on it.....
It will help restart you better in the long run.

How long should I be on it? I know long term studies haven't been conducted and there's always some hesitancy for staying on it longer than 3-6 months.

I was going to recheck labs after 2 months of being on it, then recheck again after a month of being off of it.

 

[Alpin]

How long should I be on it? I know long term studies haven't been conducted and there's always some hesitancy for staying on it longer than 3-6 months.

I was going to recheck labs after 2 months of being on it, then recheck again after a month of being off of it.

4-6 is ok. Do labs once you take your last dose and then 2 months out.

 

[Alpin]

Yes I'm very well aware low cholesterol is not good. In response to that I started eating at least 3 eggs a day and started taking pregnenolone for a month. For some reason those 2 gave me really bad anxiety....when I stopped those the anxiety went away, and I started them again and the anxiety came back. So I stopped it altogether, and that cholesterol actually dropped after the whole month of eating eggs!

The supplements were listed on the first page, but:
Isotonix Multivitamin, B Vitamins, Calcium and Vitamin D, Iodine, DHEA, Fish Oil, Vitamin C, Creatine, Glutamine

Eggs played a hand in giving you anxiety you think?
I'm confused.

 

[lancerevo]

Eggs played a hand in giving you anxiety you think?
I'm confused.

Yes I know it's silly to think the eggs caused anxiety. In retrospect I think it was the pregnenolone that gave me anxiety. I just happened to start eating eggs and take preg at the same time.

 

[Alpin]

Yes I know it's silly to think the eggs caused anxiety. In retrospect I think it was the pregnenolone that gave me anxiety. I just happened to start eating eggs and take preg at the same time.

How fast did the preg kick in with anxiety?
Alot is in your head too man. I had anxiety before taking my first ever dose of clomid...lol
I felt insomnia that same night as well...
Nasty headache the next day.
Never took it again. It might have worked. I took 50 mg tab tried breaking them in half but the stuff would crumble.

 

[Alpin]

Def 12.5 mg ED is the way to go though and gauge from there. How is it working for you?
Problem is if i go on clomid my estradiol will go up probably giving me anxiety and panic attacks. ..
Last month i checked estradiol it was 36.5 pg / ml. ...
And my TT is not even high. It was 412.
This is a month off adex after being on it in small doses for the better part of 9 years.

 

[lancerevo]

How fast did the preg kick in with anxiety?
Alot is in your head too man. I had anxiety before taking my first ever dose of clomid...lol
I felt insomnia that same night as well...
Nasty headache the next day.
Never took it again. It might have worked. I took 50 mg tab tried breaking them in half but the stuff would crumble.

I'm pretty it wasn't in my head. I felt really bad anxiety, couldn't sleep at night was almost trembling bc of how anxious I was for no reason. It all kicked in 1-2 weeks after I took it. Then I stopped it and the anxiety went away after 2 days. Then I took it again and the anxiety returned and stopped it and anxiety went away.

I will try it again and see if it happens

Def 12.5 mg ED is the way to go though and gauge from there. How is it working for you?
Problem is if i go on clomid my estradiol will go up probably giving me anxiety and panic attacks. ..
Last month i checked estradiol it was 36.5 pg / ml. ...
And my TT is not even high. It was 412.
This is a month off adex after being on it in small doses for the better part of 9 years.

I think the clomid is working. I've noticed I'm able to train several days in a row without getting tired or having my usual overtraining symptoms. I feel my recovery is remarkably improved. Feel like I have more energy. Only thing is my libido is still a little shot, but no erectile dysfunction.

The only negative symptoms I'm having is a dull ache in my testicles that just started this last week. Don't know what that's all about hopefully it goes away.