Overtraining or Intense Training?

Aesthetic

New member
This is my leg routine... warmup: which includes stretching and squatting the bar, then 135lbs. 20 reps
Set1: 225 12 reps
Set2: 275 10 reps
Set3: 315 6-8reps
Set4: 225 10 reps
Set6: 135 10 reps
Leg Extensions: 4-5 sets pyramidding from light to heavy and back to light
Leg curls: 4 sets
Hack Squats: 3 sets light weight reps 12-15

Is this too much?? I just want to get optimal thigh/hamstring development without overtraining. I train calves on a separate day.
 
yikes! well i certainly don't think you are overtraining! why the pyramid scheme on the squat? your final set is exactly half the work of your warm-up set. this doesn't make sense to me. if you are strong enough to squat 315 for 6-8 reps, I recommend getting all your work sets in that range. I would cut the reps in half on your first two sets and consider them part of your warmup. something like this:

after thorough general dynamic warmup:
warmup #1: bar x 10
warmup #2: 135 x 10
warmup #3: 225 x 6
warmup #4: 275 x 6
workset #1: 315 x 5
workset #2: 315 x 5
workset #3: 315 x 5

Then move to RDL's and GHR's for hamstring work. Skip the leg extension and leg curls. If you don't feel you got enough quad work from the squats, do some walking dumbell lunges prior to the hamstring work. Also bag the pyramiding of weight. It's one thing if you fail at a given weight and need to go down to stay in the same rep range... that's fine. But otherwise, there is no reason to finish lighter than you started.

N.B. The scheme i wrote above is certainly not the only (or even best) way to arrange your squat workout, but the general idea is what you need to be going for. Start with your warmup, the gradually build up to a heavy workload and STAY THERE.
 
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I have seen some some football programs where they incorporate pyramid sets. I can't say how well they work from experience but have seen some buddies get very strong on that type of routine.
 
i'll concede that maybe a pyramid is not the worst thing ever... but i doubt many reputable football programs have the workload of the last set at half the workload of the warmup set!
 
I'll explain my thinking...I think pyramidding hits the different muscle fibers better...I'm not sure what works for my legs...and what kind of fibers are predominant in my quads...by pyramidding I get a good pump from the higher reps and with the heavier weight and lower reps really get deep into the muscle....The reason I do 135 on my last set is to keep the muscle flushed with blood...and up intensity...I am near failure with 135 after the 9-10th rep...For some reason I get weaker when going down the pyramid...The first set is a proven 20 rep method...It seems to really pump my legs also exhausting them too much to stay around my max weight for more than one set...Some people say that building muscle comes from the pump and keeping the muscle belly engorged with blood...Other people say that without heavy weights you can't achieve good strength...and you can't get that all out growth from deep in the muscle...some people say ...strength and size go hand in hand ...others say they don't ....I don't know these answers so I'm trying to design a program that will yield good growth. I will consider your advice thank you.
 
well certainly trial and error for each individual is always a great way to go. i will just mention a few things briefly, as you touched on a few interesting topics related to exercise physiology, in which I am currently pursuing a master's degree.

in terms of recruiting muscle fibers, it always happens exactly the same way: every muscle fiber in a given muscle has a "ranking" based on the size of the motor neuron that innervates it. basically the smaller the neuron, the earlier the fiber is recruited. however, no matter what you are doing, the fibers of a given muscle are ALWAYS recruited sequentially, in EXACTLY the same order (starting with the slowest-twitch fibers, and moving on to faster and faster twitch fibers as needed). if the muscle only needs to produce a little force, it will only recruit, just as an example, fibers 1-100. if it needs to generate more force, it will recruit 1-500. if it needs maximal force, it will recruit fibers 1-whatever (except you will never recruit more than about 70% of the fibers in your muscle, except during extreme cases of adrenaline-induced fiber recruitment). so basically, there is no such thing as recruiting "different" fibers. you can only recruit "more" fibers. and that is done by subjecting the muscle to greater and greater force demands.

having said that, if you are so fatigued during your last set that you can barely get the ten reps, then yes, you are placing a demand on the muscle that will force it to attempt to recruit more fibers. however, the level of hypertrophy you will be inducing in those fibers is minimal, as the the average tension on each of those fibers is minimal. hypertrophy in a mucle fiber is directly related to the amount of tension you put on that fiber. so no matter how tired you get with 135 lbs, it is simply not going to put much tension on the fibers.

having said all this, lots of people make gains using different methods, so who knows... best of luck, though.
 
SCG2 said:
i'll concede that maybe a pyramid is not the worst thing ever... but i doubt many reputable football programs have the workload of the last set at half the workload of the warmup set!
No doubt. These were D-III schools. Also, it looked more like this:
185X10, 225X8, 275X6, 245X6, 225X8
It's not exact but close.
 
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