PCT advice after one year of TRT

[NorCalTRT]

I have been on TRT for one year as follows:

Test Cyp 100 ml 2xper week (Wed am/Sat pm)
hcg 500 iu 2xper week (Mon and Fri)
Anastrozole .25 mg 2x per week (Thurs and Sun)

I have read alot of opinions RE pct and learned that there is a broad spectrum of opinion out there. Some do not think PCT is necessary, however it certainly won't hurt and I would rather do whatever is likely to get me close to where I was before trt.

I am 51. Before TRT, T was approx. 385ish. What is the recommended protocol?

 

[Megatron28]

Odds are that you will return to the TT of 385ng/dl or worse. Do you think something has changed that will allow you to potentially have higher Natty T levels? Health changes perhaps?

Running PCT (aka doing a restart) will help get your pituitary working again -- assuming you were Secondary Hypogonadotropic. If you were Primary, it won't help.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

A PCT will be neccesary, you've been running hCG so if you are not primary like Mega mentioned, it should be easier to transition.

If you want to attempt to come off, without going into why etc I would cut the test out whilst continuing the hCG and adex 2x a week for 4 weeks and then drop both for a SERM, either Clomid or Toremifene. Get blood tests a few weeks into the SERM to see where things are going.

I'm pretty sure Apollon has attempted to come off and from what I last read he was hovering around 300+? I'm sure he will chime in.

 

[Alpin]

A PCT will be neccesary, you've been running hCG so if you are not primary like Mega mentioned, it should be easier to transition.

If you want to attempt to come off, without going into why etc I would cut the test out whilst continuing the hCG and adex 2x a week for 4 weeks and then drop both for a SERM, either Clomid or Toremifene. Get blood tests a few weeks into the SERM to see where things are going.

I'm pretty sure Apollon has attempted to come off and from what I last read he was hovering around 300+? I'm sure he will chime in.

Didn't take clomid after restart.
had higher estro and real low T when discontinuing HCG.
The clomid kind of made it worse. I think that my problem. Sensitive to estradiol be it clomid or uncontrolled while on TRT.
First week of coming off TT was 175 with 40 pg/ml estradiol.
Felt rage, iriitable, tired....I suffered for a good 2 weeks.
I tested at 412 TT 2 months after stopping HCG with Estradiol reg panel at 36.5 pg / ml.
A month later ran labs and Bio Avail.T was low...
3.2 nmol / l. ..
I didn't feel right. Still trying to recover. Messed up my system getting baselined like that. All for nothing too.
its not worth it, the muscle mass you lose, the disturbance you create in your system from withdrawing TRT without KNOWLEDGEABLE(in the field of TRT) medical supervision.
I worked out hard too while off restart....
I couldn't recover. Felt tired and wired more so if exerting.
would lie down after meal a lot andcwhen getting up I woyld feel weak, lightheaded. ...

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Your back on now Apollon yes?

 

[Alpin]

A PCT will be neccesary, you've been running hCG so if you are not primary like Mega mentioned, it should be easier to transition.

If you want to attempt to come off, without going into why etc I would cut the test out whilst continuing the hCG and adex 2x a week for 4 weeks and then drop both for a SERM, either Clomid or Toremifene. Get blood tests a few weeks into the SERM to see where things are going.

I'm pretty sure Apollon has attempted to come off and from what I last read he was hovering around 300+? I'm sure he will chime in.

I'm not convinced TT is an accurate diagnostic tool(one that is synonymous with hypogonadal symptoms) for someone relying on natty T. I am much more interested in looking(especially) at their Free and Bio Avail.T as well as SHBG and Estradiol.

 

[Alpin]

Ya

 

[Alpin]

Your back on now Apollon yes?

I'm very sure I messed/screwed up my adrenals off HRT. My MD who led me to this bullshit would not do an adrenal panel. But the thyroid panel showed FT4, FT3 in less than optimal shape. The problems I experienced were nothing I felt before. And they were exacerbated if working out. I even got panic attacks from a single cup of coffee. ..
when I was drinking the stuff all my life without issues.

 

[NorCalTRT]

A PCT will be neccesary, you've been running hCG so if you are not primary like Mega mentioned, it should be easier to transition.

If you want to attempt to come off, without going into why etc I would cut the test out whilst continuing the hCG and adex 2x a week for 4 weeks and then drop both for a SERM, either Clomid or Toremifene. Get blood tests a few weeks into the SERM to see where things are going.

The reason for coming of is I have had some wierd things going on and I don't know what is causing it. Been on TRT for 12 months and felt great from the beginning. Starting a few months ago, my feet started to get really itchy. If I scratched them, it became intense. From there, I started to get pins and needles followed by extreme itchiness. Usually starts in fleshy part of my palms or bottom of feet. I know its wierd. Started once or twice a day. Now it is happening throughout the day and its horrible. Missing work and its hard to leave the house. Exercise seems to exacerbate it. Sweep the pool, rake some leaves, and I can feel it start up. Pins and needles, get hot, flushing and crazy itchiness, its hard to sit still. Cold helps. I will sit outside in 30 degree weather or put ice around my neck and rub a cold pepsi can between my palms. I have tried everything I can think of. Eliminated all other meds. Im 51 and its still going on. The only thing, other thing I take is crestor, and I have been taking a statin since I was 40.

The only thing left is test. I had read about a guy that had an allergic reaction to HCG so I cycled off that for a while. Could I be having some kind of allergic reaction to the test cyp? How long will it take for that to be out of my system? Can I just stop taking the test and continue with HCG for a while? Any suggestions are appreciated. These episodes are getting very difficult to deal with. My labs look normal and my kaiser doc wants me to try zanax for anxiety. But I know this is not anxiety or stress related. I am on the ledge and don't know what to do because evertime I start to exert myself and do something I can pins and needles sensation coming on. Help!

 

[Megatron28]

I'm not convinced TT is an accurate diagnostic tool(one that is synonymous with hypogonadal symptoms) for someone relying on natty T. I am much more interested in looking(especially) at their Free and Bio Avail.T as well as SHBG and Estradiol.

Do you find that in the majority of cases you look at that TT is not correlated with Bio Available T and Free T?

 

[Megatron28]

NorCal: I can't remember. Did you ever try an antihistamine to see if that cleared up the problem?

 

[Alpin]

Do you find that in the majority of cases you look at that TT is not correlated with Bio Available T and Free T?

Ya... happy new year to you too buddy.
TT is only one piece of the puzzle that needs to be looked at for diagnosing hypogonadism.

 

[Megatron28]

Ya... happy new year to you too buddy.
TT is only one piece of the puzzle that needs to be looked at for diagnosing hypogonadism.

I agree that much more needs to be looked at. But what are you finding for correlations?

 

[Alpin]

I agree that much more needs to be looked at. But what are you finding for correlations?

What correlations?

 

[Megatron28]

What correlations?

The ones you made to determine that TT is an inaccurate diagnostic tool for determining if one has hypogonadism. Did they show that TT, Free T and Bio Available T are not correlated?

 

[Alpin]

The ones you made to determine that TT is an inaccurate diagnostic tool for determining if one has hypogonadism. Did they show that TT, Free T and Bio Available T are not correlated?

Let me ask you this...

A 50 y.o. male showing signs of hypogonadism and exhibiting symptoms consistent with hypogonadism presents himself to you (lets assume you are to assess him)
His TT is 420 , SHBG 50 nmol/l and Estradiol 40 pg/ml.
he looks quite lean...not obese and exercises and is on an approved diet by a registered dietician to maintain a healthy BMI.

His Bio Avail.T is just below range....

How do you approach this scenario? ??
Is this male hypogonadal? In your opinion?
His TT is 420....thats pretty average for his age...

 

[Megatron28]

Let me ask you this...

A 50 y.o. male showing signs of hypogonadism and exhibiting symptoms consistent with hypogonadism presents himself to you (lets assume you are to assess him)
His TT is 420 , SHBG 50 nmol/l and Estradiol 40 pg/ml.
he looks quite lean...not obese and exercises and is on an approved diet by a registered dietician to maintain a healthy BMI.

His Bio Avail.T is just below range....

How do you approach this scenario? ??
Is this male hypogonadal? In your opinion?
His TT is 420....thats pretty average for his age...

I asked you about the majority of cases. Not the borderline or unusual ones. You made a blanket statement. I would like to see you support your blanket statement that TT is an innacurate diagnostic tool for determining hypogonadism. If I misunderstood your blanket statement perhaps you could clarify it?

 

[Alpin]

I asked you about the majority of cases. Not the borderline or unusual ones. If I misunderstood your blanket statement perhaps you could clarify it?

I don't think such a case is "unusual". Yes you misunderstand my statements. It's not "unusual" in that regard as well.

 

[Jimstigator]

Megatron and APOLLON, hey you two... This isn't your thread. He has a real issue. Cut it out.

To the OP. A few months back, I tried HCG again and I remember two nights while on it, my feet itched like hell. Wonder if it was the same thing? You said it didn't stop when you for odd hcg for a while?

Jim

 

[panzers]

Hey NorCal I work in medicine. Crestor and other statins have been found to negatively affect the liver. The liver carries more than 300 functions in the body. Your symptoms to me the first thing I thought was the Crestor. If the liver is bothered by statins medicines u could see any number of systems in the body manifest symptoms such as those u describe. I'm no testosterone or hcg expert but I would first assess being on a statin. My five cents bro.