PCT failed, how can i restart my HPTA

[Scratchersink]

28 year old male, AAS cycling for 6 years.

Ran 16 week cycle of test e 600 mg a week
pct ran nolva 40/30/20/20 with trib, DAA, DIM, ZMA

Cycle ended mid december, PCT ended at the end of January.
Got blood test done beginning of March with

Testosterone Serum: 249ng (ref 350-1200) LOW

Started TRT with androgel but stopped 4 days after figuring it was a failed PCT
Blood test before cycle showed test serum in 700's

Having severe anxiety, brain fog (libido is still there tho)
Started Natty test boosters: Trib, Fenugreek, ZMA, DHEA

Just got some Clomid, and have nolva and arimidex on hand.
My plan right now is to run clomid at 25mg a day for a month and have a blood retest.
Any suggestions? Is a second PCT ideal for my situation?

Thank you for all your guys time!

 

[Megatron28]

Please post your most recent blood work results.

 

[Scratchersink]

RDW 15.9 HIGH ref: 12.3-15.4
ALT (SGPT) 61 HIGH ref: 0-44
LDL 105 HIGH ref: 0-99
Testosterone Serum 249 LOW ref: 348-1197
Vitamin D 28.7 LOW ref: 30-100

Doctor did not test estrogen levels, nor LH FSH etc etc.
She instantly put me on TRT with no more tests requested

 

[Megatron28]

RDW 15.9 HIGH ref: 12.3-15.4
ALT (SGPT) 61 HIGH ref: 0-44
LDL 105 HIGH ref: 0-99
Testosterone Serum 249 LOW ref: 348-1197
Vitamin D 28.7 LOW ref: 30-100

Doctor did not test estrogen levels, nor LH FSH etc etc.
She instantly put me on TRT with no more tests requested

We need to see the etc if we are going to be able to help you.

In the meantime get on some NAC and Vitamin D.

 

[halfwit]

Agree with Tron. It's pretty important to know what LH and FSH are in order to know if you CAN recover. For the record, a vitamin D deficiency can greatly reduce testosterone output. I'd definitely fix that one for sure.

 

[Machine15]

^ yesss a simple dietary deficiency especially something like Vit D can really lower testosterone production. and also very curious
to why you haven't ran clomid with your PCT ? and no HCG for a 16 week cycle ?

 

[Scratchersink]

Thank you for your replies, i started Vitamin D 5000units a day a few days ago, i scheduled an appt with the doctor but its not until April 6th, i will request full hormone blood test and post results asap. In the meantime, do you suggest starting SERMs or wait for results?

Machine15: I purchased clomid thru my source but he said he "lost" it which i think he kept for himself because i heard my other buddy said it was hard to find around my area. I just got a bottle of clomid on hand now after blowing up all my possible sources, i wish i had it for my PCT. Failure on my end. As for HCG, i heard bad results about my sources HCG, that it caused rash and reactions

 

[JimiThing]

Do you have the rest of your Blood work results?

 

[Megatron28]

Thank you for your replies, i started Vitamin D 5000units a day a few days ago, i scheduled an appt with the doctor but its not until April 6th, i will request full hormone blood test and post results asap. In the meantime, do you suggest starting SERMs or wait for results?

Machine15: I purchased clomid thru my source but he said he "lost" it which i think he kept for himself because i heard my other buddy said it was hard to find around my area. I just got a bottle of clomid on hand now after blowing up all my possible sources, i wish i had it for my PCT. Failure on my end. As for HCG, i heard bad results about my sources HCG, that it caused rash and reactions

Can you list out the specific labs you are going to request? Let's make sure you have everything covered.

Or why not just get private blood work done? It is usually cheaper and faster. Do you know how to do this?

 

[The Anabolic Doc]

28 year old male, AAS cycling for 6 years.

Ran 16 week cycle of test e 600 mg a week
pct ran nolva 40/30/20/20 with trib, DAA, DIM, ZMA

Cycle ended mid december, PCT ended at the end of January.
Got blood test done beginning of March with

Testosterone Serum: 249ng (ref 350-1200) LOW

Started TRT with androgel but stopped 4 days after figuring it was a failed PCT
Blood test before cycle showed test serum in 700's

Having severe anxiety, brain fog (libido is still there tho)
Started Natty test boosters: Trib, Fenugreek, ZMA, DHEA

Just got some Clomid, and have nolva and arimidex on hand.
My plan right now is to run clomid at 25mg a day for a month and have a blood retest.
Any suggestions? Is a second PCT ideal for my situation?

Thank you for all your guys time!

Good morning. This is something I see regularly in my practice and one of my areas of specialty.

After 6 years of AAS use, you may have permanent anabolic steroid induced hypogonadism ASIH. This as not medical advice, as you are not a patient of mine, but in situations like this, I would agree with Tron and Halfwit- you need a full assessment including pituitary gonadotropins like, LH and FSH. Total estrogen Estrogen levels are important too. After a man is off AAs for say several months, his clinical features such as mood and libido are the most important aspects leading to clinical management.

We (medical community) are not sure why men fail to produce "normal" levels of testosterone after AAS use, but is thought that it is a form of pituitary failure- secondary hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. This means that the pituitary fails to produce sufficient gonadotropins -LH and FSH. In many circumstances we see "normal" LH/FSH (when they should be elevated) with low testosterone levels- which indicates failure of the hypothalamus/ pituitary system. Again, this is controversial and in the end, each man needs to be managed on a case-by-case manner.


In cases like this and for young men wishing to maintain fertility, clomid alone in doses of 25 to 50 mg either qd or qod is the recommended medication. Adding an aromatase inhibitor at this stage without known estrogen levels is not practical or recommended. The caveat here is that there is always an option to just stay off ASS and see how the patient does over time. Time will tell and over 6 months or so, if a man does not come back in testosterone, and he is suffering, something has to be done. This is when clomid or replacement testosterone would be acceptable. Each case has to be taken on a man-per-man basis and if he elects to try clomid, it can be used for periods of over 1 year, but I always caution that this too may lead a man to become reliant on such medication. If testosterone is inevitably the medication of choice, it may be co-administered with HCG at doses of 250 to 500 IU several times a week. This has been shown to maintain fertility in men on testosterone over years of therapy. I always give men an option to save semen prior to starting TRT as well. This is very important.

Please see your doctor or an expert in this field.


I hope this helps.
Dr O

 

[JimiThing]

hcg 1000iu's-2x/week for 5 weeks followed by clomid at 70/35/35/335 and nolva 40/20/20/20/20/20
Do this then get blood work 8 weeks after the above protocol ends to assess your hpta recovery.

 

[Ghost077]

Hey there..

If u could also help me about that topic..
Run sust tren cycle for about 3 months 2 times a year. With that i've used Proviron and Nolva..
For PCT i've used HCG 5000 iu and CLOMID 150/100/50/50 cose most of coaches have said not to use it while on cycle..
After last two cycles something went rly wrong so later i continued with the test cycle.
Now my libido is rly low..
Here r my results prew and last results took in few month between..
LH - 1,3 (1,7-8,6)
FSH - 1,3 (1,5-12,4)
TESTO (total) - 7.8 (8,6-29,0)
TESTO (free) - 2,2 (1,5-2,9)

Last results:
LH - 5,2 (1,7-8,6)
FSH - 2,9 (1,5-12,4)
TESTO (total) - 13,7 (8,6-29,0)
TESTO (free) - 1,7 (1,5-2,9)