Pls help, likely failed pct (seeing endo)

[drathead]

I was Just wondering if i can get some input for the strange situation I'm going through. 34 yo male btw.

Feb 2015 i started a cycle (my first) in preparation for a show end of april. It was 12 weeks test-e 450/week which was to be stopped the week before show and used w/ winstrol to get dry the last ~2 weeks leading up to the show. Right after the contest I went on a 1 week vacation and after that wanted to run one more month of test prop + anavar when I returned just to help me rebound and put on muscle.

So something like this:
Week 1-11 test e 450/week
Week 11-12 winstrol 50mg ed
Week 13 off
Week 14-18 test p 400-450/week
Week 14-18 anavar 40mg ed

So basically last shot of test was end of May first week of June. Nolva was always ran throughout from beginning to end eod iirc and for 4 more weeks after for pct at the tapered dose 40/40/20/20 i did not do anything else for pct I'm thinking this was my mistake.


Everything seemed fine though, It was now october 3.5 months post pct and i had put on about 25 lb (obviously not all muscle) but felt good going to my annual doctors appt. however soon afterwards I am sure I experienced what is referred to as a (estro) "rebound" because I suffered from chronic fatigue, no motivation, didnt want to train or even Cook or eat my meals, moodiness/irritability, forgetfullness, hot flashes, even possible (pseudo)gyno flare up though hard to tell. Even possible increased hairloss though i dont have good hair genetics either..

Blood Work at this time came back Basically;
Cholesterol was a disaster
Ldl 5.37 (over 4.9 is very high)
Hdl 1.52
(I have family history of bad Cholesterol but through diet and exercise had manged to greatly help Cholesterol pre-cycle)

Total test 15.5 (ref 8.6-29.0)
Free test 234 (ref 131-406)
Bio avail test 5.93 (ref 3.15-9.84)
E2 51 (ref 55-165)
Shbg 50.5 (ref 18.3-54.1)
(I did a blood test ~2 years before and had naturally high test)

Now is where the story Gets funky;

At this point i decided i had to revert back to healthy habits so i reduced calories back to slightly below maintenance to gradually lose weight. I ended up losing back 17 lbs of the weight gain, i now 4 months later feel and look much better, tons of energy, high motivation, in the gym i can get Nice pumps and feel beastly! I feel like i am recovering... So We did a follow up BW last week and i was 100% certain it would come back normal Just given how much better i feel but;

Cholesterol is MUCH better than 4 months ago, still not quite pre cycle levels
Ldl 4.02
Hdl 1.35

However,
Total test 9.4 (ref 8.6-29.0)
Free test is now 156 (ref 200-620)
Bio available 3.95 (ref 4.35-14.30)
E2 45 (ref 55-165)
Shbg 40.5 (ref 18.3-54.1)
FSH 2.8 (ref 1.6-11.0)
LH 1.4 (ref 0.8-6.1)
Prolactin 12.2 (ref 2.7-16.9)
Even did PSA low normal
I repeated this blood test monday with similar results btw

So We are now about 8 months post pct i do not know What to do, doc is happy I'm doing much better but thinks i should see endo to be safe.

Anyone have experience or suggestions?
Should i try a second pct? I'm really trying to avoid hrt at the moment, which is What i suspect she is going to propose. I really am Just hoping to recover naturally which Will probably take Time...

PS yes this was my first and last time using AAS.

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[Megatron28]

Please post blood work results with reference ranges.

 

[drathead]

Please post blood work results with reference ranges.

Added

 

[Megatron28]

We need to see Total Testosterone too.

 

[drathead]

We need to see Total Testosterone too.

Added that too... And Here is for reference my bloods from 2 years earlier when i had started dieting and training intensely and i was Pretty much in peak (natural) form:

Ldl 3.05
Hdl 1.65

Test total 14.9 (ref 6.8-20.0)
Shbg 24.1 (ref 10.1-51.3)
Free test 340 (ref 131-406)
Bioavailable test 8.79 (ref 3.15-9.84)

 

[drathead]

We need to see Total Testosterone too.

Megatron, from your experience, do you think there's a chance I Will recover if I Just wait long enough?

 

[drathead]

Any help would be appreciated ***128542;

 

[drathead]

Can I please get some help I am starting to have severe anxiety over this which is of course not helping me right now

 

[Milton]

relax, these gentleman will give you some good advice.

 

[drathead]

Anyway my appointment with the endo is in a week I suspect he Will recommend watchful waiting, which i agree with.

I had my anxiety and panic attacks this week about all this but now I'm feeling much better, and i was feeling top shape before this bloodtest anyway so I'm guessing i'm Just going through a lengthy recovery Due to a poorly planned cycle. Even though i am 34 yrs old i doubt ive permanently shut down my HPTA from One cycle of test and orals.

 

[halfwit]

Anyway my appointment with the endo is in a week I suspect he Will recommend watchful waiting, which i agree with.

I had my anxiety and panic attacks this week about all this but now I'm feeling much better, and i was feeling top shape before this bloodtest anyway so I'm guessing i'm Just going through a lengthy recovery Due to a poorly planned cycle. Even though i am 34 yrs old i doubt ive permanently shut down my HPTA from One cycle of test and orals.

What time of the day are you getting your blood draws done? (this matters) Also, you should be aware that training while in a deficit can most certainly drive down hormone production temporarily.

If you want to get the best possible idea as to what is going on, I would get a full night's sleep, and retest first thing in the morning. If you're restricting fat intake, ease up on that, as you need healthy fats to make hormones. You may also need to take a deload week or simply take a small break from training for a week to rule that out while brining calories up to maintenance for a little while.

I mention these "easy fixes" as your pituitary output is quite low right now, which may be an adrenergic (pesky adrenals!) reaction driving it down.

My .02c

 

[drathead]

Thanks alot for the help half wit...

Truth be told i had been dealing with alot lately. I first severely injured my back, Then had these blood tests, Then underwent gyno surgery (which flared up in october if you remember, but now that i dieted down was barely noticeable, but since It was already booked and the cancellation fee is high i decided to go through with it) ... All this in the Space of 2 weeks.

And yes i was eating a slightly calorie and fat restricted diet to get lean. And honestly i cant remember the last Time i had taken more than 2 days of the week off from the gym in the last 3 years, most of the Time 6 days a week even post contest. And oh Yeah almost forgot, i havent cycled off stimulants for the past 3 years either.

So everything that You have said is True. Just How much all This is contributing remains to be seen but your points are all spot on.

 

[MidNight1]

Pretty rough cycle for a 1st cycle in my opinion and very long. Usually people go test only 1st cycle to see how their bodies react to AAS, after that maybe add another compound.

You started straight away with 2 different esters of test and 2 orals, on a 4 month + cycle, without having HCG on hand or proper PCT with clomid + nolvadex. You should have ran HCG through your cycle 500 UI every week, or kick start your PCT with HCG...with such a long cycle, like 2500UI EOD or once every 3 days for 2 weeks.

Just think about it. 100 mg of test is enough to SHUT YOU DOWN COMPLETELY and you were SHUT DOWN for 4 months without any HCG to stimulate your testes. I'm sorry to say it like this but you started a cycle having no clue at all of what you are doing and these are the consequences

Would you mind getting on TRT and injecting yourself for the rest of your life?

 

[drathead]

^im definitely trying to avoid that at this point

And dont worry I know now how stupid it was to do this And i defeinitely wont be touching AAS ever again

 

[halfwit]

Thanks alot for the help half wit...

Truth be told i had been dealing with alot lately. I first severely injured my back, Then had these blood tests, Then underwent gyno surgery (which flared up in october if you remember, but now that i dieted down was barely noticeable, but since It was already booked and the cancellation fee is high i decided to go through with it) ... All this in the Space of 2 weeks.

And yes i was eating a slightly calorie and fat restricted diet to get lean. And honestly i cant remember the last Time i had taken more than 2 days of the week off from the gym in the last 3 years, most of the Time 6 days a week even post contest. And oh Yeah almost forgot, i havent cycled off stimulants for the past 3 years either.

So everything that You have said is True. Just How much all This is contributing remains to be seen but your points are all spot on.

No worries man, it's way more common than you'd think.

I'd just give your body some time to "catch its breath" so to speak, and get some calories in you. Obviously, don't overdo it - but I suspect that you'll see a pretty big swing in numbers once the dust settles.

If not, you at least are aware of alternatives - which many aren't. Please update us once you get things squared away and get another panel drawn.

 

[drathead]

Of course i Will keep this post updated when i see the endocrinologists (seeing 2 of them)

I Hear you about making sure nutrition is good but honestly last 2 weeks i have been having on and off anxiety, some days I'm fine but some days are pretty bad and those days you can imagine getting the calories in is quite difficult but I'm trying my best. Really feeling depressed some days to the point where I think I'm gonna need meds.

But thanks for being here for me guys it means alot

 

[juced_porkchop]

Thanks alot for the help half wit...

Truth be told i had been dealing with alot lately. I first severely injured my back, Then had these blood tests, Then underwent gyno surgery (which flared up in october if you remember, but now that i dieted down was barely noticeable, but since It was already booked and the cancellation fee is high i decided to go through with it) ... All this in the Space of 2 weeks.

And yes i was eating a slightly calorie and fat restricted diet to get lean. And honestly i cant remember the last Time i had taken more than 2 days of the week off from the gym in the last 3 years, most of the Time 6 days a week even post contest. And oh Yeah almost forgot, i havent cycled off stimulants for the past 3 years either.

So everything that You have said is True. Just How much all This is contributing remains to be seen but your points are all spot on.

stims should be cut downéoff IMO to see how you do also... what sort of stims and how much how often
also stress and injury itself can stress the body and mess up hormones along with stim use and restricting cals (keep healthy fats med-high imo) and never taking a break of training... it seems like the combo of it all to me... i dont train more than 3 days a week myself.. 6-7 days a week is overtraining IMO and is gonna catch up to you. + you been doing this off cycle already as it is. you grow when resting, also your CNS needs a break.. if you go more than 5 days a week take a week off every so often at the very least. personally i rec train eod, its a decent balance imo

 

[juced_porkchop]

Of course i Will keep this post updated when i see the endocrinologists (seeing 2 of them)

I Hear you about making sure nutrition is good but honestly last 2 weeks i have been having on and off anxiety, some days I'm fine but some days are pretty bad and those days you can imagine getting the calories in is quite difficult but I'm trying my best. Really feeling depressed some days to the point where I think I'm gonna need meds.

But thanks for being here for me guys it means alot

simple but may help you for anxiety and help destress a bit" Stop Panic Attacks, Social Anxiety, and more

 

[drathead]

stims should be cut downéoff IMO to see how you do also... what sort of stims and how much how often
also stress and injury itself can stress the body and mess up hormones along with stim use and restricting cals (keep healthy fats med-high imo) and never taking a break of training... it seems like the combo of it all to me... i dont train more than 3 days a week myself.. 6-7 days a week is overtraining IMO and is gonna catch up to you. + you been doing this off cycle already as it is. you grow when resting, also your CNS needs a break.. if you go more than 5 days a week take a week off every so often at the very least. personally i rec train eod, its a decent balance imo

Don't worry I've cut out the preworkout since last monday i was having some anxiety that day and took some before the gym and it exacerbated it to the point where i had a full blown panic attack and had to run out of the gym to feel better. I've been training 'clean' since then and i dont even feel a strength difference so far. I am only training 4 days a week and v light workouts atm.

Btw thanks alot juiced for that Link it really helped calm me down as today is a particularly bad day for my anxiety

 

[juced_porkchop]

Don't worry I've cut out the preworkout since last monday i was having some anxiety that day and took some before the gym and it exacerbated it to the point where i had a full blown panic attack and had to run out of the gym to feel better. I've been training 'clean' since then and i dont even feel a strength difference so far. I am only training 4 days a week and v light workouts atm.

Btw thanks alot juiced for that Link it really helped calm me down as today is a particularly bad day for my anxiety

Your welcome. glad it was of some help.
I also rec this root drink called KavaKava. its good at low doses for anxiety and higher doses for sleep with no physical addictive risk . and any liver risk you see posted it from missmade products from long ago. you are only supposed to use the root. the traditional way of making it has been around for hundreds of years.
feel free to pm me on that if you think I can help.

Cheers!