Post PCT, High Estrogen, WTF?

My_Pitch27

New member
So let me try and make this short and straight to the point...
Taking a 420mg Test C cycle, was taking Adex .5mg 3x week, I aborted in the 5th week and waited two weeks then hit it with my PCT, nolva 40/40/20/20 and clomid 50/50/50/50

Now I aborted due to gyno like symptoms... which have come and gone depending on the day, lol....

I'm still on 40mg/day of Tamoxifen to ward off any lingering gyno, (I've read a lot of articles that this can be effective, so I'm giving it a try) if it doesn't work I'll switch to Raloxifene 60mg/day.

Had bloodwork done in 2nd week post PCT (2 weeks after PCT was completed)
and here is where my results are at that are alarming!!!
E2 = 96 range <39
Total Test = 1152 range 248-850

What's the deal? and should I be taking an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to help lower my e2?
Thanks guys!
 
What was your LH/FSH? I have a feeling that the gear was still going strong even after 6 weeks. It's not common, but it can happen.
 
Wow!....for one, Test C "shoulda" been out of your system after 2 weeks, but I still wait 21-24 days post cycle to start my post cycle therapy (pct) regardless....That way I KNOW that even the long ester stuff should be pretty much out of my system, but that shouldn't be an issue with Test C.

Did you take Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) prior to your post cycle therapy (pct)? Are you still taking Clomid? It sounds like you are in a Negative feedback loop: The more LH there is (because the Clomid blocked the estrogen receptors in your pituitary, causing it to keep producing LH, which in turn tell the testes to make Testosterone), the more testosterone is secreted and as testosterone rises in the blood stream, this will NORMALLY inhibit the pitu*itary from releas*ing LH and to a lesser extent it will inhibit the GnRH. But Aromataze is still working (unless you are taking an AI) and will continue to convert Testosterone into Estrogen......Novladex will inhibit the ability of Testosterone to Aromatize into estradiol.

I'm no doctor, but I think that you are gonna have to stop SOMETHING in order to allow your body to return to homeostatis. Keep Novla on hand IN CASE you start seeing gyno effects, but you need to allow the estrogen to build t a sufficient level to tell your pituitary to shut of LH production, and start getting everything back into equalibrium..either that or you might have to get your pituitary checked out..........cuz outside of those solutions, Tumors on the pituitary can cause unrestricted LH flow, with the correlating high Estrogen.....
 
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Wow!....for one, Test C "shoulda" been out of your system after 2 weeks, but I still wait 21-24 days post cycle to start my post cycle therapy (pct) regardless....That way I KNOW that even the long ester stuff should be pretty much out of my system, but that shouldn't be an issue with Test C.

Did you take Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) prior to your post cycle therapy (pct)? Are you still taking Clomid? It sounds like you are in a Negative feedback loop: The more LH there is (because the Clomid blocked the estrogen receptors in your pituitary, causing it to keep producing LH, which in turn tell the testes to make Testosterone), the more testosterone is secreted and as testosterone rises in the blood stream, this will NORMALLY inhibit the pitu*itary from releas*ing LH and to a lesser extent it will inhibit the GnRH. But Aromataze is still working (unless you are taking an AI) and will continue to convert Testosterone into Estrogen......Novladex will inhibit the ability of Testosterone to Aromatize into testosterone.

I'm no doctor, but I think that you are gonna have to stop SOMETHING in order to allow your body to return to homeostatis. Keep Novla on hand IN CASE you start seeing gyno effects, but you need to allow the estrogen to build t a sufficient level to tell your pituitary to shut of LH production, and start getting everything back into equalibrium..either that or you might have to get your pituitary checked out..........cuz outside of those solutions, Tumors on the pituitary can cause unrestricted LH flow, with the correlating high Estrogen.....

I think you mean Aromatase inhibitor (AI) preventing this conversion to estradiol. ;) This is why I wonder about LH/FSH levels as they would be a good indicator if his test levels are his own (REALLY high natty if so) or if there is still some lingering esterfied testosterone floating around causing this conversion. If they come back low, we know it's the exogenous test still (4-6 weeks is actually how long it can remain); if they're normal or elevated, we can look at the clomid/HCG triggering this.

My .02c :)


Note: No disrespect intended, just wanted to clarify. :)
 
None taken...I didn't want to go TOO medical textbookish :) plus I just noticed a typo that is nearly impossible to edit with my iPhone ....


post script: edited my typo...I had testosterone written down instead of estradiol, which is the "major" estrogen in Humans....
 
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Thank you for responding, when I spoke with my doctor on the phone she said it was my pituitary trying to recover and make more testosterone, she knows my conditions...lol

I wish I would have found out what LH and FSH were, but I will have those numbers tomorrow for you... Then maybe we can figure out a way to beat this thing, I don't need anymore breast tissue growth. LoL
I did use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) but within a 5 week period (the length of my cycle, due to aborting) I only injected 500iu twice, so I doubt that had anything to do with it.


I think you mean Aromatase inhibitor (AI) preventing this conversion to estradiol. ;) This is why I wonder about LH/FSH levels as they would be a good indicator if his test levels are his own (REALLY high natty if so) or if there is still some lingering esterfied testosterone floating around causing this conversion. If they come back low, we know it's the exogenous test still (4-6 weeks is actually how long it can remain); if they're normal or elevated, we can look at the clomid/HCG triggering this.

My .02c :)


Note: No disrespect intended, just wanted to clarify. :)
 
So let me try and make this short and straight to the point...
Taking a 420mg Test C cycle, was taking Adex .5mg 3x week, I aborted in the 5th week and waited two weeks then hit it with my PCT, nolva 40/40/20/20 and clomid 50/50/50/50

Now I aborted due to gyno like symptoms... which have come and gone depending on the day, lol....

I'm still on 40mg/day of Tamoxifen to ward off any lingering gyno, (I've read a lot of articles that this can be effective, so I'm giving it a try) if it doesn't work I'll switch to Raloxifene 60mg/day.

Had bloodwork done in 2nd week post PCT (2 weeks after PCT was completed)
and here is where my results are at that are alarming!!!
E2 = 96 range <39
Total Test = 1152 range 248-850

What's the deal? and should I be taking an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to help lower my e2?
Thanks guys!

something isn't right. test levels that high 2 weeks after a MILD test dose do NOT make sense. wouldn't be the 1st time labs were screwed up and if the test levels are screwed up then so are the E levels.
 
something isn't right. test levels that high 2 weeks after a MILD test dose do NOT make sense. wouldn't be the 1st time labs were screwed up and if the test levels are screwed up then so are the E levels.

That's what I thought as well but here is where I know the levels are correct. I had a test done on monday and one done on friday. Both came back almost identical...
I'll have all the numbers in a few hours to share with you guys...
 
Dadawg: that's why I'm (unfortunately) wondering if its not something far more serious. Like I said, I'm not a doctor, but I also have done enuf investigation into this that I have learned that a pituitary Tumor CAN cause those symptoms...

I don't want to scare the op, and have him all panicked, but he NEEDS to get a concrete clinical diagnosis from a doctor...
 
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That's what I thought as well but here is where I know the levels are correct. I had a test done on monday and one done on friday. Both came back almost identical...
I'll have all the numbers in a few hours to share with you guys...

once again , how would the numbers come back almost identical when the injected test had 4 more days to clear your system.
 
Dadawg: that's why I'm (unfortunately) wondering if its not something far more serious. Like I said, I'm not a doctor, but I also have done enuf investigation into this that I have learned that a pancriatic Tumor CAN cause those symptoms...

I don't want to scare the op, and have him all panicked, but he NEEDS to get a concrete clinical diagnosis from a doctor...

Pancreatic cancer causing testosterone/estrogen levels to be off? That's a new one to me as I don't think the pancreas has much to do with the HPTA outside of metabolism changes due to insulin regulation. I'm not a doctor by any means, but can you please explain why you would think the pancreas is involved here? I can see a pituitary issue or even a hypothalamus being the cause of a hormone imbalance, but you lost me here...
 
So let me try and make this short and straight to the point...
Taking a 420mg Test C cycle, was taking Adex .5mg 3x week, I aborted in the 5th week and waited two weeks then hit it with my PCT, nolva 40/40/20/20 and clomid 50/50/50/50

Now I aborted due to gyno like symptoms... which have come and gone depending on the day, lol....

I'm still on 40mg/day of Tamoxifen to ward off any lingering gyno, (I've read a lot of articles that this can be effective, so I'm giving it a try) if it doesn't work I'll switch to Raloxifene 60mg/day.

Had bloodwork done in 2nd week post PCT (2 weeks after PCT was completed)
and here is where my results are at that are alarming!!!
E2 = 96 range <39
Total Test = 1152 range 248-850

What's the deal? and should I be taking an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to help lower my e2?
Thanks guys!


I would definitely be taking an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). Go to a new source for it though, it seems that yours was highly under dosed. .5mg of adex 3 times a week with the amount of test you were taking should have prevented a gyno flare up, unless you were an over weight teen or kid and are predisposed to gyno. Id drop the nolva once you pick up an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and run that for about 2 weeks and see how you are doing again.
 
Pancreatic cancer causing testosterone/estrogen levels to be off? That's a new one to me as I don't think the pancreas has much to do with the HPTA outside of metabolism changes due to insulin regulation. I'm not a doctor by any means, but can you please explain why you would think the pancreas is involved here? I can see a pituitary issue or even a hypothalamus being the cause of a hormone imbalance, but you lost me here...

My bad...Not pancriatic...a Pituitary Gland Tumor......damn iphone.....

----------------------------------------------------------------

A pituitary tumor can cause your pituitary gland to produce too much or too few hormones, which can cause problems in your body. Large pituitary tumors ***8212; those measuring about 1 centimeter (slightly less than a half-inch) or larger ***8212; are known as macroadenomas. Smaller tumors are called microadenomas. Macroadenomas can put pressure on the rest of the pituitary gland and nearby structures.

Symptoms related to tumor pressure
Signs and symptoms of pressure from a pituitary tumor may include:
Headache
Vision loss, particularly loss of peripheral vision
Nausea and vomiting
Symptoms of pituitary hormone deficiency
Weakness
Less frequent or no menstrual periods
Body hair loss
Sexual dysfunction
Increased frequency and amount of urination
Unintended weight loss or gain

Symptoms related to hormone level changes
Some pituitary tumors, called functioning tumors, also produce hormones, generally causing an overproduction of hormones. Different types of functioning tumors can develop in your pituitary gland, each causing specific signs and symptoms and sometimes a combination of them.

Adrenocorticotropic hormone-secreting (ACTH) tumors
ACTH tumors produce the hormone adrenocorticotropin, which stimulates your adrenal glands to make the hormone cortisol. Cushing's syndrome results from your adrenal glands producing too much cortisol. Signs and symptoms of Cushing's syndrome may include:
Fat accumulation around your midsection and upper back
Exaggerated facial roundness
A characteristic hump on the upper part of your back
High blood pressure
High blood sugar
Muscle weakness
Bruising
Stretch marks
Thinning of your skin
Anxiety, irritability or depression

Growth hormone-secreting tumors
These tumors produce excess growth hormone. The effects from excess growth hormone (acromegaly) may include:
Coarsened facial features
Enlarged hands and feet
Excess sweating
High blood sugar
Heart problems
Joint pain
Misaligned teeth
Increased growth of body hair

Accelerated and excessive linear growth may occur in children and adolescents.

Prolactin-secreting tumors
Overproduction of prolactin from a pituitary tumor (prolactinoma) can cause a decrease in normal levels of sex hormones ***8212; estrogen in women and testosterone in men. Excessive prolactin in the blood can affect men and women differently.

In women, prolactinoma may cause:
Irregular menstrual periods
Lack of menstrual periods
Milky discharge from the breasts

In men, a prolactin-producing tumor may cause male hypogonadism. Signs and symptoms may include:
Erectile dysfunction (ED)
Infertility
Loss of sex drive

Thyroid-stimulating hormone-secreting tumors
When a pituitary tumor overproduces thyroid-stimulating hormone, your thyroid gland makes too much of the hormone thyroxine. This is a rare cause of hyperthyroidism or overactive thyroid disease. Hyperthyroidism can accelerate your body's metabolism, causing:
Sudden weight loss
Rapid or irregular heartbeat
Nervousness or irritability
Frequent bowel movements
Feeling warm or hot

When to see a doctor
If you develop signs and symptoms that may be associated with a pituitary tumor, see your doctor to determine if this is the cause of your symptoms. Pituitary tumors often can be treated effectively to return your hormone levels to normal and alleviate your signs and symptoms.

If you know that multiple endocrine neoplasia, type I (MEN I) runs in your family, talk to your doctor about periodic tests that may help detect a pituitary tumor early.
 
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My bad...Not pancriatic...a Pituitary Gland Tumor......damn iphone.....

----------------------------------------------------------------

A pituitary tumor can cause your pituitary gland to produce too much or too few hormones, which can cause problems in your body. Large pituitary tumors ***8212; those measuring about 1 centimeter (slightly less than a half-inch) or larger ***8212; are known as macroadenomas. Smaller tumors are called microadenomas. Macroadenomas can put pressure on the rest of the pituitary gland and nearby structures.

Symptoms related to tumor pressure
Signs and symptoms of pressure from a pituitary tumor may include:
Headache
Vision loss, particularly loss of peripheral vision
Nausea and vomiting
Symptoms of pituitary hormone deficiency
Weakness
Less frequent or no menstrual periods
Body hair loss
Sexual dysfunction
Increased frequency and amount of urination
Unintended weight loss or gain

Symptoms related to hormone level changes
Some pituitary tumors, called functioning tumors, also produce hormones, generally causing an overproduction of hormones. Different types of functioning tumors can develop in your pituitary gland, each causing specific signs and symptoms and sometimes a combination of them.

Adrenocorticotropic hormone-secreting (ACTH) tumors
ACTH tumors produce the hormone adrenocorticotropin, which stimulates your adrenal glands to make the hormone cortisol. Cushing's syndrome results from your adrenal glands producing too much cortisol. Signs and symptoms of Cushing's syndrome may include:
Fat accumulation around your midsection and upper back
Exaggerated facial roundness
A characteristic hump on the upper part of your back
High blood pressure
High blood sugar
Muscle weakness
Bruising
Stretch marks
Thinning of your skin
Anxiety, irritability or depression

Growth hormone-secreting tumors
These tumors produce excess growth hormone. The effects from excess growth hormone (acromegaly) may include:
Coarsened facial features
Enlarged hands and feet
Excess sweating
High blood sugar
Heart problems
Joint pain
Misaligned teeth
Increased growth of body hair

Accelerated and excessive linear growth may occur in children and adolescents.

Prolactin-secreting tumors
Overproduction of prolactin from a pituitary tumor (prolactinoma) can cause a decrease in normal levels of sex hormones ***8212; estrogen in women and testosterone in men. Excessive prolactin in the blood can affect men and women differently.

In women, prolactinoma may cause:
Irregular menstrual periods
Lack of menstrual periods
Milky discharge from the breasts

In men, a prolactin-producing tumor may cause male hypogonadism. Signs and symptoms may include:
Erectile dysfunction (ED)
Infertility
Loss of sex drive

Thyroid-stimulating hormone-secreting tumors
When a pituitary tumor overproduces thyroid-stimulating hormone, your thyroid gland makes too much of the hormone thyroxine. This is a rare cause of hyperthyroidism or overactive thyroid disease. Hyperthyroidism can accelerate your body's metabolism, causing:
Sudden weight loss
Rapid or irregular heartbeat
Nervousness or irritability
Frequent bowel movements
Feeling warm or hot

When to see a doctor
If you develop signs and symptoms that may be associated with a pituitary tumor, see your doctor to determine if this is the cause of your symptoms. Pituitary tumors often can be treated effectively to return your hormone levels to normal and alleviate your signs and symptoms.

If you know that multiple endocrine neoplasia, type I (MEN I) runs in your family, talk to your doctor about periodic tests that may help detect a pituitary tumor early.
That I can agree with, but it's common for testosterone levels to be much lower in the case of a pituitary tumor, hence why it's a major cause of secondary hypogonadism. This is also why I feel it would be good to see those LH/FSH levels as these are generated in the pituitary gland. ;) I agree though, it doesn't really matter what we think as none of us are doctors and the best we can do is guess and shouldn't be taken as a substitute for medical care. The only reason I have an inkling for any of this is because of my own case of hypogonadism that was overlooked by many doctors over the years, leading me to have to do my own homework over the years. :p
 
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