Pro-Hormone with no PCT...HELP

[ImAuNatural]

I took a pro hormone last year around October and I was not knowledgeable at all on pro hormones I just read that it would help me gain muscle and I took it. The pro hormone I took was Super DMZ 2.0 just for reference. It worked well as my strength went up and so did my size I was eating 4k+ calories a day and gained 30lbs over the course of the six weeks I took it. While I was on it I was completely shutdown my sex drive was gone,I had no energy,I was tired and lazy all the time and I had some testicular shrinkage. I didn't know that pro hormones would cause all of this and how to combat it but I continued taking it hoping it would go away and since I had already seen some results I figured why not? Well after I came off everything seemed to return to normal after about 3 weeks or so. I never knew that it could shut you down and that without a PCT and even with a PCT you may not return to normal until now. But when I think back to how I felt before the prohormone and how I feel now there is a world of difference,my sex drive was definitely alot higher than what it is now and so was my energy levels,motivation and everything. I got my bloodwork back and my test levels are at 439 and my estradiol is at 9.5. From what I have read these number aren't that great especially for my age (just turned 20). I need some advice on how to get my test levels back to where they were and how to keep them there please. Thanks for anyfeedback it will be greatly appreciated.

 

[phoneman268]

Friend you say that you want you test levels back to normal, how do you know they're not? Do you know your level prior to your PH cycle? It's very possible that you are within "your" range. I would suggest seeing your doctor, he may put you on TRT. But if you don't want to inject Test, (which I am assuming is the case, thus using an oral PH), you need to come to grips with the fact that doing a cycle of anything aas or pH without proper education and pct may have messed you up for good.

 

[Teutonic]

I am non knowledgeable AT ALL w pro hormones however 439 on a scale of ?

A pct at this late may be redundant and a waste of money as I am of the opinion, again I do not know pro hormones, that if you were gonna return to natty levels you would have. I m hoping hat seeing my name will encourage those who know the ramifications of pro hormone s will chime in.

I am so sorry but I am an expert on lethargy, depression and lack of motivation. Being a former pill head and an ex very emotionally unstable individual who uses my body , reaction time and ability to assess , diffuse or negate threats now that I m on my game feel qualified to tell you...

Move. A lot. Get out of the house and go do ...anything but brood and over think this PHASE. The more you do the more you will want to do and so forth...exercise, especially aerobic exercise releases endorphins, stimulates test production and new sight s and sounds will help too...

No worries. mega or others will help get you back to square.

 

[ImAuNatural]

I am non knowledgeable AT ALL w pro hormones however 439 on a scale of ?

A pct at this late may be redundant and a waste of money as I am of the opinion, again I do not know pro hormones, that if you were gonna return to natty levels you would have. I m hoping hat seeing my name will encourage those who know the ramifications of pro hormone s will chime in.

I am so sorry but I am an expert on lethargy, depression and lack of motivation. Being a former pill head and an ex very emotionally unstable individual who uses my body , reaction time and ability to assess , diffuse or negate threats now that I m on my game feel qualified to tell you...

Move. A lot. Get out of the house and go do ...anything but brood and over think this PHASE. The more you do the more you will want to do and so forth...exercise, especially aerobic exercise releases endorphins, stimulates test production and new sight s and sounds will help too...

No worries. mega or others will help get you back to square.

My testosterone serum level was 439ng/dl. Im not sure on a scale of what. But I just turned 20 and like I said before the PH I felt way better than I do now. The prohormone was basically a steroid in pill form it was mix of Dimethazyne and Methylstenbolone. Not sure on the spelling of those two names. I was just wondering if there was a way I could increase my testosterone levels without going on trt. Maybe trying to run some clomid,some DAA, supplemting zinc ED,etc.

 

[ImAuNatural]

Friend you say that you want you test levels back to normal, how do you know they're not? Do you know your level prior to your PH cycle? It's very possible that you are within "your" range. I would suggest seeing your doctor, he may put you on TRT. But if you don't want to inject Test, (which I am assuming is the case, thus using an oral PH), you need to come to grips with the fact that doing a cycle of anything aas or pH without proper education and pct may have messed you up for good.

Im not afraid to inject test I just had no way to get ahold of it at the time when I decided to take the pro hormone,also like I said I didnt know how powerful a prohormone could be I thought it was simply just a test booster to help me gain more muscle lol. I am much more educated on everything now as to when I took the PH but I was wondering if running clomid/nolvadex alone will help bring my test back up to where it should be. I do not know my T levels before the prohormone but I am willing to bet everything I own that they were higher than they are now because I look back at how I used to feel and how high my libido/sex drive were and compare them to now and there is a major difference.

 

[jozifp103]

super dmz is just superdrol really...if i remember correctly the range for normal testosterone on your results was something close to (250-1100)....for all thos asking.

OP maybe repost your bloodwork to give ppl a better idea.

 

[ImAuNatural]

super dmz is just superdrol really...if i remember correctly the range for normal testosterone on your results was something close to (250-1100)....for all thos asking.

OP maybe repost your bloodwork to give ppl a better idea.

They have some chart that shows Male Tanner stage and then has some numbers not sure which one to go by or how it works but whatever that prohormone was it was strong thats for sure. I spoke with that trt clinic and they wont help me with even a restart he said that my levels to be optimal for my age should be at least 800 though. Which means im at about half of what I should be. Just knowing this is making me even more depressed than I already have been lately..lol

 

[jozifp103]

have you talked to your actual doctor? although that can be even more painful sometimes cuz GP's hardly know a thing about this stuff.

 

[Havasu]

I am no pro, but trying PCT now shouldn't necessarily hurt. As Teutonic noted, it may end up a waste of money. As far as dosing, I'm not sure at this stage the gave if you should try a normal PCT, or if the dosages should be raised. Someone more knowledgeable than I would need to chime in on that. Off the top of my head I'm thinking (and again, someone would need to fill in the blanks on dosage):

HCG ???iu ?x a week for ?weeks.
Not sure if a low dose of an AI should be used during this time

Wait three days from last HCG injection for it to clear your system

Begin PCT

50mg or ??mg Clomid ed for 4 weeks
20mg or ??mg Tamox, or Torem for 4 weeks

It's a shot in the dark, but without knowing your original Test and E2 levels prior to the pro-hormone it's tough to say. In general 439 seems low for the average 20 year old, but again you may not produce very highly. The LabCorp reference range is 348ng/dl-1100ng/dl. At 36 I was 548 pre-cycle. Also, 9.5 for your E2 seems low. From what I have read 25-40 is the range you want your E2 within.

It would be good to know your LH and FSH as well, they may tell more of the story.

 

[ImAuNatural]

Here are my lab results.


View attachment 558446 View attachment 558445

 

[ImAuNatural]

I am no pro, but trying PCT now shouldn't necessarily hurt. As Teutonic noted, it may end up a waste of money. As far as dosing, I'm not sure at this stage the gave if you should try a normal PCT, or if the dosages should be raised. Someone more knowledgeable than I would need to chime in on that. Off the top of my head I'm thinking (and again, someone would need to fill in the blanks on dosage):

HCG ???iu ?x a week for ?weeks.
Not sure if a low dose of an AI should be used during this time

Wait three days from last HCG injection for it to clear your system

Begin PCT

50mg or ??mg Clomid ed for 4 weeks
20mg or ??mg Tamox, or Torem for 4 weeks

It's a shot in the dark, but without knowing your original Test and E2 levels prior to the pro-hormone it's tough to say. In general 439 seems low for the average 20 year old, but again you may not produce very highly. The LabCorp reference range is 348ng/dl-1100ng/dl. At 36 I was 548 pre-cycle. Also, 9.5 for your E2 seems low. From what I have read 25-40 is the range you want your E2 within.

It would be good to know your LH and FSH as well, they may tell more of the story.

I wasnt sure if the clomid/nolvadex may help on its own or if it would be a waste. Also seeing as my E2 is already on the low side wouldn't the Nolva/Clomid hurt it even more?

 

[ImAuNatural]

have you talked to your actual doctor? although that can be even more painful sometimes cuz GP's hardly know a thing about this stuff.

I don't have an actual doctor I used to but my grandmother (who raised me my entire life and was like a mom and dad and grandmother and grandfather all in one) always scheduled my appointments when needed and she passed away last year from a massive heart attack,so I am basically on my own now. I haven't been to the doctor since late 2012. Plus im sure a doctor is just going to say oh you're in the normal range even though that includes men who are 4 x's your age in it.

 

[jozifp103]

clomid and nolva are serms, not ai's. ai's block the aromatization of testosterone into estrogen, serms just occupy your estrogen receptors so actual estrogen can't act on them. in doing this, it tricks your body into thinking your estrogen is low so in return it produces more testosterone because men make estro out of test. make sense?

 

[ImAuNatural]

clomid and nolva are serms, not ai's. ai's block the aromatization of testosterone into estrogen, serms just occupy your estrogen receptors so actual estrogen can't act on them. in doing this, it tricks your body into thinking your estrogen is low so in return it produces more testosterone because men make estro out of test. make sense?

Yerah it makes sense. I sort of already knew that but I didnt know if it blocking my receptors would effect my estrogen in a negative way without being on cycle. But since my estrogen is already low shouldn't my body be producing more test right now then? What is a good ratio of Test/Estrogen?

 

[Teutonic]

OP !

UR OBSESSING. Stop it. U are freaking yourself into a " I wrecked my test level" mindset; w o a pre pro hormone test we have no baseline from which to draw. U may have have been there b 4 all this..

 

[ImAuNatural]

OP !

UR OBSESSING. Stop it. U are freaking yourself into a " I wrecked my test level" mindset; w o a pre pro hormone test we have no baseline from which to draw. U may have have been there b 4 all this..

You may be right. But my sex drive has lowered some I know that for sure, I know my test isn't wrecked I dont feel like complete shit but I dont feel like I did before. I will just try some natural things to boost my test and Im not sure what do do with the $325 worth of gear I ordered though...

 

[Teutonic]

ur sexdrive is lowered as ur focused on it from the wrong angle g d it

If I worry if my dick is work it may not..if I walk around brooding that my sex drive is down my sex drive is down g d it it is gonna be down.

As previously indicated I KNOW ABOUT MINDSETS..u r feeling sorry for yourself and despair is an emotion I m familiar with and exorcise as soon as it looms. If you do not master it your in for a long MISERABLE decade my friend.

Did that piss you off boy ? I fkn hope so..anger is a much more constructive emotion if you channel it for good ends. Now go find you a willing women and fuck her...twice...tell her I required it of you to stay on here

Off you go....do it...do it...(Starsky and Hutch remake love it)

 

[ImAuNatural]

ur sexdrive is lowered as ur focused on it from the wrong angle g d it

If I worry if my dick is work it may not..if I walk around brooding that my sex drive is down my sex drive is down g d it it is gonna be down.

As previously indicated I KNOW ABOUT MINDSETS..u r feeling sorry for yourself and despair is an emotion I m familiar with and exorcise as soon as it looms. If you do not master it your in for a long MISERABLE decade my friend.

Did that piss you off boy ? I fkn hope so..anger is a much more constructive emotion if you channel it for good ends. Now go find you a willing women and fuck her...twice...tell her I required it of you to stay on here

Off you go....do it...do it...(Starsky and Hutch remake love it)

Lmao thanks man. And no it didn't piss me off at all I dot usually get mad over forums on the internet but IRL yes. Thank you for the advice man and you're probably right its just that ever since I came off the prohormone I haven't cheated on my grilfriend not even once so that's why I think that its lowered a little. lol I have been through alot of shit in my life at such a young age so my mindset is pretty good and I can handle my emotions effectively everything that I have been through has only made me stronger.

 

[jozifp103]

wait....you think your libido is low cuz you don't cheat on your gf anymore? as opposed to before you would cheat often?

 

[ImAuNatural]

wait....you think your libido is low cuz you don't cheat on your gf anymore? as opposed to before you would cheat often?

Possibly...lol...Im kidding man.