German89
JuiceBoxxx
thats what she said
PROTEIN intake on test e??
- Thread starter lee1092
- Start date
thats what she said
That really wasn't to be taken seriously - it was satire as in it's useless for anyone to be consuming 250+ G.
More than likly it'll be stored as fat as they'll be in a caloric surplus.
But even as satire it's wrong. Protein in real world applications will not be stored as fat even in a surplus. The pathway for protein to become stored as fat does exist but rarely happens in nature. Proteins primary fate is either storage in skeletal muscle or oxidization for energy. It will almost never in your lifetime be stored directly as fat. And again, it's not useless for someone to take 250g of protein a day. That's simply an incorrect blanket statement and highly illogical at that.
Whether it's rare or not isn't the point; if you consume an excess of 1000 calories daily from protein(whey iso) it's going to be stored as fat. Do you share your account with multiple people? Looks like now you're debating semantics.
There's no reason anyone under 250lbs(lean mass) should need, or feel their body needs to utilize so much protein. It won't increase muscle gains any quicker in comparison to eating 200, 185, or even 175(especially since TC is about 150lbs of lean mass), but it will decrease your wallet. The money "wasted" on the excess protein could just be spent on more drugs as those share more weight towards obtaining more muscle mass.
inb4 "that's an illogical statement because the purchasing of all food decreases your wallet". You're also using oxymorons for trying to correct me "Almost never", but I realize you mean "barely/rarely/uncommon".
If you consume an excess of 1000calories yes you will gain fat but it is NOT the protein being stored as fat. This is my point. The 1000calories or 250g of protein will not become fat. You don't understand how metabolism works and I can provide you links to read up if you'd like. It's not a matter of semantics just bc I'm telling you your understanding of this isn't 100% accurate. Even carbs are highly unlikely to be stored as fat. De novo lipogensis is not a huge concern for humans. It takes very specific conditions for that pathway to be utilized, most of us will never see those conditions, and protein being converted to fat is an even more unlikely proposition.
You're making a straw an argument. I never said anyone needs 250g of protein in a day. I'm saying that that 250g of protein or more will be used but not necessary. There are plenty of reasons to have a high protein intake of 250g and possibly more if one so desires, to think otherwise is myopic and not understanding metabolism and physiology. Any food will decrease your wallet, why are you fixating on excess protein? Excess carbs and excess fats cost money as well. Did we say anywhere that protein powder must be used to get those 250g? Even though protein powder is actually a pretty cheap protein source when you calculate $ spent per grams received. If you look at it in terms of proteins use for only muscle gains than I've already said there isn't a need to go too high but protein has more uses than just getting you quicker gains. Why selectively say "money spent on excess protein could be used for drugs"? It could be excess money spent on anything: carbs, fats, kit kats, your sister's graduation party, etc. you are demonizing protein bc you believe there is no rhyme nor purpose for taking in an ARBITRARILY CHOSEN number of protein. You're doing similar to what Atkins does when he demonizes carbs or what the zone diet and other fad dieters think of when they hear dietary fat. You're just as wrong and incorrect in your assumptions as they are.
Yea you had to include that "inb4" bc you know your argument is full of holes. Enough said. Yes they are oxymorons but oxymorons obviously exist so where's the issue? It is extremely uncommon/rare/barely etc an issue of protein becoming converted to fat. Protein is also rarely converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis but I can't say it never happens bc if dietary fat intake is less than ~ 10%total of total calories, then the body will convert protein to glucose. Is this common NO. Does it happen occasionally yes. Examples are when a keto dieter has too high a protein intake and not enough fat, less than 10% of total calories come from dietary fat, and when glycogen stores are full and mega dosing of carbs along the lines of 500-900g of carbs a day happens. Are any of these situations commonplace? No, so protein intake being too high and leading to fat or protein being pissed away is not a concern for us as a population. The only concern for extremely high protein will be if you have a medical condition or it takes away from your ability to meet your other dietary needs. I could eat 300g of protein in a day and still meet my needs. Why should I eat any less protein if I love burgers, steaks, chicken, etc? Bc you said I won't get any results on top of an arbitrary 250g? Be serious man, there's more than one side to this story and there's "almost never" a reason for you to be so scared of protein
And yes it being rare is very much on point. You are positing that an excess of 1000calories will make you fat which we both agree on, you'll gain muscle And fat on that sized surplus. But you are saying its bad to take in protein bc the protein is what will make you fat. That is wrong, its the excess calories that makes you fat bc protein will not realistically be stored as fat to any significant degree. Ever. Is that better than my previous oxymoron?
lee1092
New member
That's exactly what I'm referring to. Thank you for posting.
I'm 203lbs at the moment. My macros vary daily. I count them and meet them, I don't really stick to exact numbers of each everyday. I generally won't go below ~180g or above 250g depending on the day although some days I'll get a big steak on top of my normal intake so I've been up to 300g before. I don't plan going that high those days, its just protein is my favorite macro and I can easily eat more of it without hindering results if my overall caloric intake remains the same.
Sounds like a similar article I read where the body doesn't necessarily need any carbs - protein can convert into fat for hormonal production, and with a lack of fat in the diet the body can last quiet a while( you eventually lose the ability to absorb many micro nutrients and can die though).
I also wish they cited what type of protein they used - I call complete bullshit on animal protein resulting in no abundance of fat gain. Protein isn't found in nature isolated like it is, and even whey isolate contains some traces of fats.
Carbs are only essential to high intensity anaerobic training. They're nonessential like protein and fat. Even without carbs, protein does not get converted to fat. It gets stored in muscle or used for energy less commonly. You will not die if you never eat carbs.
It doesn't matter if protein is isolated in nature or not, that does not mean absorption, digestion, or metabolism changes in any way. Protein will not convert to fat from animal or non animal sources. It can lead to an excess of calories which would cause more dietary fat to be stored as fat but the protein itself doesn't get stored like that.
lee1092
New member
Dre I was thinking shooting for +5 above maintanice on off days, and plus 18 on lifting days, (yes I know I take it to the extreme)
My macros come out to be 250p 200c 70f on off days and 250p 300c and 60f on lifting days off days around 2500cal, lifting days around 2800.....From my understanding there is no need to jack up calories just bc you are on cycle. Being on cycle does not change your TDEE, it just increases protein synthesis etc etc....so no need to go 3000 plus cals just bc your on cycle esp if that is not needed to put on weight at a certain bw. If my understanding is right, correct me if wrong.
For WEIGHT loss and gain yes. If youre talking body composition and fat loss specifically or muscle gain specifically macros matter and if you're talking about health micros/vitamins/minerals/fiber matter.
I'm not understanding what you mean by +5 off days and +18 training days? Is that referring to the percentage of caloric surplus you want to do? Something else?
What are your full stats and goals? Quickly those macros look good but there's room for changing them if you prefer lower protein intake, more or less carbs, etc. body comp wise the differences will be negligible if you alter them slightly while keeping the diet isocaloric. Your fat intake may be on the low side but that's why I need your stats.
If you want the shotgun effect or the get huge quick effect than to all out with calories and that's that. You'll get more muscle and fat. If you want to bulk up slowly while keeping body comp within certain standards, then you're in the right direction with eating in a surplus. Your goals and stats will help me answer this too but usually I would prefer to eat at a constant caloric intake rather than alternate high and low days like you're proposing. What kind of training are you doing, body building style or strength training? Recovery is still occurring on off days so its not like the calories will go to waste and protein synthesis is elevated for up to 24hrs post exercise so another reason to not drop calories on off days. It can help keeping the fat gain down but will also slow your gains. It's a choice you've got to make depending on goals. Being on cycle will not alter your energy expenditure in normal ways by for me, I did notice my body temps elevated slightly which could affect TDEE. AAS will increase protein synthesis, decrease periods of catabolism, increase recovery (not soreness, but actual recovery there's a difference), and in read calorie partitioning and p-ratio so more calories to towards building muscle and towards storage of protein instead of to fat.
There's no reason to eat a 2000calorie surplus necessarily you're right. But that will change or depend on your starting point, your goals, and your training. It's a decision that has to take many factors into consideration. Can't make a blanket statement for every scenario.
lee1092
New member
5'6 165 10-12% bf....just comin off of show prep, me and my 'IFBB" pro had huge disagreements on my diet, she fked me all up so I am slowly recovering....I was doing the lean gains protocol, surplus on lifting and a small deficit on off days to keep gains steady with as less fat gain as possible...
lee1092
New member
bump update
Protein Requirements for Strength and Power Athletes | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald
check this article
Even he says 1.5g/lb wouldnt 'hurt'
There really seems to be so scientific data backing either way...I did read somwhere that 1.35/lb was best lol idk but whatever
he also mentions that on aas 2g/lb could be needed
Protein Requirements for Strength and Power Athletes | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald
check this article
Even he says 1.5g/lb wouldnt 'hurt'
There really seems to be so scientific data backing either way...I did read somwhere that 1.35/lb was best lol idk but whatever
he also mentions that on aas 2g/lb could be needed
