Question about AI and Body Fat

[Dragot]

Please help me understand the relationships between Aromataze receptors and overall body fat. I seem to have issue dialing the correct AI dose (if one is needed at all in my case). When I started TRT in May 2016 (with great success I should say), I was close to 210LB, 30% BF. Should mention that I've started HGH (anti aging purpose and dosage) at the same time. Fast forward to today, I am 170LB, 11.2% BF (body fat measurement taken with caliper by pro in the gym).

Last E2 numbers (Oct 13th, 14.5% BF) were very high - 52.6 (range 8-35). At this point I started 1/4 tablet Arimidex 24 hours post Test C injection. I did not felt great improvement and so, in December upped to 1/2 tablet. Today i still don't feel that the dosage is correct. Just for the heck of it popped one whole tablet (1mg) after the last injection on Monday and am crashing big time.

My next blood work is due end of this month. My question is - does the body fat plays role in terms of aromataze process i.e. are there relationships between BF and E2 conversion? What AI dosage experienced forum members would recommend to administer, when (day of T injection, next day etc) , and how long before E2 test should be taken in order to take a stable benchmark and go from there in order to get E2 in "normal" range?


Drago

 

[rich33584]

How often are you injecting?
I inject Saturday morning and Tuesday evening. 100 Mg Cyp per injection. At that time I take .7Mg anastrozole.
You need to not play with your dosage too much. Take 1Mg per week in divided dosages. So if you inject 1 time a week I would take .5 day of and the other .5 2 days later. Start that asap and maybe youll know where you stand by months end. Adjust after bloodwork if needed and maintain new dosage till your next blood work. dont play with your dosages...
You probably should think about 2 injections per week if you arent already. Its easier to maintain levels.
Also, yes body fat does affect e2 conversion.

 

[Milton]

did you keep logs?

 

[Gainjin260]

Blood work is the only way to dial in your ai dose correctly.
You WILL aromatize more at a greater BF, so (in theory) you'll need less ai now then you did when you first began.
Everybody is different. I don't have low BF but I don't aromatize a lot. Even on 700+mg of test I don't need a full mg of Adex a week.
I'd try .25 2x/wk. stick with it for a while then get bloodwork.

You said you didn't "feel" better when you switched up your ai dose. What are you feeling? I caution against going with feel over bloodwork.

 

[oldmusclemike]

Blood work is the only way to dial in your ai dose correctly.
You WILL aromatize more at a greater BF, so (in theory) you'll need less ai now then you did when you first began.
Everybody is different. I don't have low BF but I don't aromatize a lot. Even on 700+mg of test I don't need a full mg of Adex a week.
I'd try .25 2x/wk. stick with it for a while then get bloodwork.

You said you didn't "feel" better when you switched up your ai dose. What are you feeling? I caution against going with feel over bloodwork.

Although I do this myself it is only because of my strict to no money budget. AND it is very difficult even though I am quite aware of all the sides of High and Low E2. Read up on all the unwanted sides. Careful not to crash your E2 it is a bad thing...

 

[Gainjin260]

Although I do this myself it is only because of my strict to no money budget. AND it is very difficult even though I am quite aware of all the sides of High and Low E2. Read up on all the unwanted sides. Careful not to crash your E2 it is a bad thing...

The difference is you've been at this for decades! Newbies need to get bloodwork and remember how they feel at different e2 levels/what "symptoms" they have. I get oily skin when e2 is high. Libido is down when e2 is too low etc. You've had enough experience to (most likely) guess accurately.

 

[oldmusclemike]

The difference is you've been at this for decades! Newbies need to get bloodwork and remember how they feel at different e2 levels/what "symptoms" they have. I get oily skin when e2 is high. Libido is down when e2 is too low etc. You've had enough experience to (most likely) guess accurately.

We're on the same page

 

[Roush]

Please help me understand the relationships between Aromataze receptors and overall body fat.

Fat cells contain Aromatase enzymes. the more fat you have the more aromatase you have and the more you'll convert testosterone to estrogen

 

[tbonexl]

I could be wrong but I've never heard of arimidex being taken just once a week. The half life isn't long enuff to dose just once per week. 2 times per week would be the minimum.
I guess an example would be calories. Say your on a 3,000 calorie per day diet. You wouldn't consume 21,000 calories on sunday and think your covered for the week. You gotta spread that shit out...

 

[Roush]

I could be wrong but I've never heard of arimidex being taken just once a week.

this methodology comes from endo docs . its old school. I've got a bottle of prescription anastozole (prescribed to me from a doc 5 years ago), dosed at .5mg and it says right on there "take one pill two days following testosterone injection" .

experience bodybuilders and AAS users no better though. lower dose, multiple times per week is better

 

[f22]

Your gut health plays a fairly large part in how you process estradiol. When I was suffering from dysbiosis, my e2 was 93pg/dl on 100mg test per week. I had acne, insomnia, moon face, limp dick, pretty much every side in the book.

Fixed the dysbiosis, and e2 was 20pg/dl on 80mg test.

 

[Dragot]

Thank you all for the replies thus far. Let me give you a context for better understanding.
I am 55 year old male, from European descent, currently living in US. Around 5 years ago my "quality of life" gradually went in the crapper. I couldn't get off bed in the morning, barely go to work (crossing the hallway that is - I work from home), crashing in bed around 7:30 pm to "watch the news" and falling asleep shortly after. ED, PE, I mean, all bad things one cannot even thing wishing his worst enemy... Family doctor kept saying "Yeah, you're getting old... we can offset this lack of quality of life with some SSRI's..." Talking about ignorance! Viagra and Cialis worked until... stopped working early last year. So I am Googling "Why Cialis not working" and first hit was this forum when someone said "With low T ain't going to work."

Hmm.. So I go to privatemdlabs and what do you know... T borderline low, Free T well below reference range. E2 "somewhat" normal, everything else is OK. Took the test results to the MD and said "You have two options - based on the low Total and Free T you can either write me a prescription or I am going on the black market. I am sick if this and will not take it anymore"! He did wrote a script, I go to his office and the nurse shots the whole vial, 1CC, 200mg/ml in my ass and says Come see me in two weeks" Ouch, this is not what I've read online... Ever since, I administer 60mg Monday 7am and Thursday 5pm. This answers rich33584 question.
One month later (June) - surge of energy I have never felt since my teens. I mean, I had to sign for the gym else I had feeling I will burst in flames. Gym visits 1 hour on weekdays, am and pm on weekend. Weight is dropping, BF is dropping, morning wood is back with vengeance, I am horny 24/7, PE gone. Life is good again!

90 days later - energy levels still high, however libido not the same (still better than Day 0). blood work shows Total T in the high 90%, Free T in high 90%, E2 high 80%. At this point I am confused, but still feel good about the progress, especially the fact I have discovered that I actually have abs!

Another test October - Total T 1153 (348-1197), Free T 41.6 (5-21), E2... Holly crap - 52 (8-35). Asked question here and the only response I've got - 1/4 of 1mg 24h post injection. This is what I have been doing until presently. Yet again, energy level is high, but morning wood is definitely weaker, so is libido.

This is why I will be concentrating on getting E2 under control and finding the sweet spot. I have already negotiated with the family accountant (my lovely wife that is) to have more frequent tests next few months, hence my question on dosage and frequency.

 

[rich33584]

Thank you all for the replies thus far. Let me give you a context for better understanding.
I am 55 year old male, from European descent, currently living in US. Around 5 years ago my "quality of life" gradually went in the crapper. I couldn't get off bed in the morning, barely go to work (crossing the hallway that is - I work from home), crashing in bed around 7:30 pm to "watch the news" and falling asleep shortly after. ED, PE, I mean, all bad things one cannot even thing wishing his worst enemy... Family doctor kept saying "Yeah, you're getting old... we can offset this lack of quality of life with some SSRI's..." Talking about ignorance! Viagra and Cialis worked until... stopped working early last year. So I am Googling "Why Cialis not working" and first hit was this forum when someone said "With low T ain't going to work."

Hmm.. So I go to privatemdlabs and what do you know... T borderline low, Free T well below reference range. E2 "somewhat" normal, everything else is OK. Took the test results to the MD and said "You have two options - based on the low Total and Free T you can either write me a prescription or I am going on the black market. I am sick if this and will not take it anymore"! He did wrote a script, I go to his office and the nurse shots the whole vial, 1CC, 200mg/ml in my ass and says Come see me in two weeks" Ouch, this is not what I've read online... Ever since, I administer 60mg Monday 7am and Thursday 5pm. This answers rich33584 question.
One month later (June) - surge of energy I have never felt since my teens. I mean, I had to sign for the gym else I had feeling I will burst in flames. Gym visits 1 hour on weekdays, am and pm on weekend. Weight is dropping, BF is dropping, morning wood is back with vengeance, I am horny 24/7, PE gone. Life is good again!

90 days later - energy levels still high, however libido not the same (still better than Day 0). blood work shows Total T in the high 90%, Free T in high 90%, E2 high 80%. At this point I am confused, but still feel good about the progress, especially the fact I have discovered that I actually have abs!

Another test October - Total T 1153 (348-1197), Free T 41.6 (5-21), E2... Holly crap - 52 (8-35). Asked question here and the only response I've got - 1/4 of 1mg 24h post injection. This is what I have been doing until presently. Yet again, energy level is high, but morning wood is definitely weaker, so is libido.

This is why I will be concentrating on getting E2 under control and finding the sweet spot. I have already negotiated with the family accountant (my lovely wife that is) to have more frequent tests next few months, hence my question on dosage and frequency.

Increase your dosage to .5 day of injection.
Run that for 3 weeks and re-test.

 

[Dragot]

Having in mind the half life of adex mentioned above, I've decided to do .25 every 50 hours (or as close as possible to 50h mark), retest in 3 weeks from now, and go from there. I am planning to switch to liquid - easier to dose in either case - need more or less than 1/4 tablet for example.

Thanks y'all for the input.

 

[Roush]

Having in mind the half life of adex mentioned above, I've decided to do .25 every 50 hours (or as close as possible to 50h mark), retest in 3 weeks from now, and go from there. I am planning to switch to liquid - easier to dose in either case - need more or less than 1/4 tablet for example.

Thanks y'all for the input.

sounds like a plan . keep in mind that the 'half life' of a drug is NOT how long it takes the drug to get out of your system , its how long it takes HALF of the drug to get out of your system (so if you don't quite hit the 50 hour mark on the dot , it won't make that much a difference)

 

[Dragot]

Correct! My goal is to achieve sustained systematic levels of AI at the right amount (whatever that amount has to be) at the sweet spot.

 

[jojo25jj]

I have 105kg on 1,88m hight... a round belly and I need 12mg Aromasin per day.
Other smaller people only need 12mg all 3 days or so.
Especcially the belly fat seems to produce much aromastase enzyme.

 

[Rockymtn]

Your gut health plays a fairly large part in how you process estradiol. When I was suffering from dysbiosis, my e2 was 93pg/dl on 100mg test per week. I had acne, insomnia, moon face, limp dick, pretty much every side in the book.

Fixed the dysbiosis, and e2 was 20pg/dl on 80mg test.

What the hell is "moon face"?

Also, OP. How much HGH are you pinning?

 

[Dragot]

1 IU 7am, 1 IU 6pm. I use generic HGH. Tested serum HGH three hours post pin (10IU) - come back 15.1
IGF-1 level currently 244 (61-200). Worth noting it made wanders with my wife (50y old) as well - after 6 months of usage per-menopause symptoms have disappeared - no more hot flashes, period comes once a month on the clock (vs 2-3 times prior), dropped 40lb, BF from 42 to 26%... We are way beyond the "placebo effect" mark. I truly believe it turned back the clock...

 

[Roush]

What the hell is "moon face"?

Also, OP. How much HGH are you pinning?

"moon face" is when your face swells up with excess water and estrogen , get a round puffy look, and when the BP elevates along with that it will be red too.