question for the competitors
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I read a post a while back where a guy took Lasix before his show. He ended up cramping so bad on stage that he had to drop out of the comp.
It's good you are going to do a test run before the comp comes around. Do you have a back up plan incase the Lasix doesn't pan out for you?
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1450&highlight=lasix
It's good you are going to do a test run before the comp comes around. Do you have a back up plan incase the Lasix doesn't pan out for you?
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1450&highlight=lasix
Last edited:
Praetorian
New member
Diuretics
On the use of diuretics precontest!
First off...NEVER..use oral (tabs) lasix....the duration of effect is too long and the dosage is thus way too difficult to adjust...anyone who has had trouble..ie cramping, flatness , dizziness etc...it was due to oral lasix..the use of oral lasix has now been established as antiquated to say the least!
If you are going to do lasix..then IV and sub Q are your only choices. You would also start usually ..depending on your condition the friday prior to your show ..that is if your show is the next day sat! 25 mg IV push friday late afternoon/early evening....guage your condition! If tight and full ..then you may want to add in another 25 mg early sat am...it is very important not too mix diuretics so you dont screw with your potassium /sodium levels too bad...Lasix is a loop diuretic..which means it will eliminate potassium ...ie cramping! A trial run isa great idea...and i would suggest having a friend around to assist!
Most people prefer aldactone or aldactazide to lasix..easier on the body and potassium sparing! These products are slower to take full effect and need to be cycled..ie..started 4-6 days prior and tapered post comp! Herbals such as taraxatone are basically herbs such as dandelion and uva ursi mixed in caplet form and the company charges you mucho dollars for it! Just purchase the basic herbs themselves! These also need to be run a few days prior to take effect and in reality are not that effective..IMO!
Peace,
P
On the use of diuretics precontest!
First off...NEVER..use oral (tabs) lasix....the duration of effect is too long and the dosage is thus way too difficult to adjust...anyone who has had trouble..ie cramping, flatness , dizziness etc...it was due to oral lasix..the use of oral lasix has now been established as antiquated to say the least!
If you are going to do lasix..then IV and sub Q are your only choices. You would also start usually ..depending on your condition the friday prior to your show ..that is if your show is the next day sat! 25 mg IV push friday late afternoon/early evening....guage your condition! If tight and full ..then you may want to add in another 25 mg early sat am...it is very important not too mix diuretics so you dont screw with your potassium /sodium levels too bad...Lasix is a loop diuretic..which means it will eliminate potassium ...ie cramping! A trial run isa great idea...and i would suggest having a friend around to assist!
Most people prefer aldactone or aldactazide to lasix..easier on the body and potassium sparing! These products are slower to take full effect and need to be cycled..ie..started 4-6 days prior and tapered post comp! Herbals such as taraxatone are basically herbs such as dandelion and uva ursi mixed in caplet form and the company charges you mucho dollars for it! Just purchase the basic herbs themselves! These also need to be run a few days prior to take effect and in reality are not that effective..IMO!
Peace,
P
crazymike
New member
Re: Diuretics
I agree that you are basically paying for the name. But $16 is not exactly 'mucho dollars'. As far as its effectiveness, personally it worked very well in conjunction with carb manioulation and water depletion.
I came in to my last show at 3% and very dry. Maybe it is on a personal basis, but it worked great for me, and I plan on using it in future contests!
Praetorian said:
I agree that you are basically paying for the name. But $16 is not exactly 'mucho dollars'. As far as its effectiveness, personally it worked very well in conjunction with carb manioulation and water depletion.
I came in to my last show at 3% and very dry. Maybe it is on a personal basis, but it worked great for me, and I plan on using it in future contests!
Lasix
Pharmaceutical Name: Furosemide
Chemical structure: 4,17beta-Dihydroxyestr-4-en-3-one
Molecular weight of base: 330.7423
Effective dose: 20-60 mg/day
Average Street-price: $10 for 30 tabs of 40 mg
Available Doses: 20, 40 and 500 mg tablets, or injectables
Products: Diural, Diurapid,Durafurid, furomex, furanthril, furomin, furon, furonet, furosemide, furosifar, fusid, impugan, lasix, seguril, semid, sigalasur, trofurit, vesix
Characteristics:
Furosemide is the most powerful and most widely used diuretic drug in the world. The injectable version is fast-acting, and dries someone out like prune. Its used in the medical field, mostly in the emergency room, to purge people who have ingested large doses of toxins, hoping that the toxins can be excreted before they enter the system and so avoiding worse problems. It also makes a good shock treatment for people who are admitted with dangerously high blood pressure. Its very multi-functional, but its also a very dangerous drug. It signals the body to immediately excrete both intracellular and extracellular water, and with it the key electrolytes sodium and potassium. This can lead to severe problems. Muscle contraction is based on the exchange of electrolytes. That means in first instance an electrolyte imbalance can causing cramping and other irregularities in muscle contraction. Now if its only a calf or a bicep, no harm done in the long run. But when its your heart muscle, that's another story. In 1985 professional bodybuilder Mohammed "Momo" Benazziza fell dead after winning a Grand Prix, the cause of death was believed to be his pre-contest use of the diuretic Lasix.
In most sports diuretics are used to lose small amounts of weight in a hurt. If you compete in weight classes and need to drop a pound in an hour, lasix will do the trick for you. Cleans the water from your body and you are lighter. If you have a match the next day, you are probably heavier again, so a major advantage. In bodybuilding the use of diuretics is for another reason entirely. The aim is after all to show as much muscle as possible, and to show as much definition and striation within that muscle. Unfortunately even at the dangerously low body-fat percentages bodybuilders compete at, a lot of that definition may still be hidden under layers of subcutaneous water. By using diuretics, that water can be shed and the maximum potential of a physique can be retained. In many cases, the levels of water retained by an athlete has made the difference between doing very well and doing very poorly. And the differences in the water household between the pre-judging of a contest and the evening show have sometimes made the difference between several placings. So diuretics have become an integral part of bodybuilding over the last 20 years.
Furosemide comes in oral tablets of 20 and 40 mg and in an injectable form. The injectable is the most potent. Its injected intravenously, as opposed to most steroids which are injected intramuscularly. It can become active in a matter of minutes and has a drastic effect. But as described previously, also a very dangerous one. The orals will usually take 60-90 minutes to kick in, but have a fairly drastic effect themselves. Furosemide is without a doubt the most potent diuretic in the world. An athlete will rarely opt to take more than 40 mg daily, and only in the last 4 or 5 days leading up to a show. The Injectable version is only used pre-contest, especially if there is testing. Testing for diuretics has become very popular in bodybuilding of late, and that has driven more athletes to wait until after taking their piss, and then inject some Lasix to get rid of the last bit of water. Needless to say this is a reckless practice. If a stronger effect is required, athletes are more likely to opt for adding another, milder diuretic like spironolactone (Aldactone), instead of increasing the dosage of lasix. There are a number of combination diuretics like Lasilactone that enjoy great popularity in the sports sector. Usually they near the potency of using twice as much lasix, but with much less hazard.
Stacking and Use:
Since its so harmful and potentially lifethreatening, furosemide should only be used the last 4-7 days leading up to a contest, with around 20 mg a day, 40 mg at the very most. If a stronger effect is needed, additioning a milder diuretic is advised. 50 mg of spironolactone or hydrochlorthiazide, which are potassium sparing diuretics, will usually do the trick. Adding a potassium supplement to furosemide is wise, 1500-3000 mg daily normally. This keeps electrolytes somewhat in balance and helps prevent the worst of side effects such as nausea, dizziness and cramping. There isn't much use for ancillary drugs with furosemide otherwise. Its an anti-hypertensive in itself, so it could offer relief after a dieting period with ephedrine, clenbuterol and high dose androgens. One should always take care to replenish his water and salt intake after use is discontinued.
Many users will note a very distinct bloating after discontinuing the product, sometimes to the point where everyday movement is near impossible. During the use of this product extremely heavy and painful cramps can occur, as well as Diarrhea, dehydration, dry mouth, dizziness and nausea.
If the injectable is used, make sure its out of necessity. Otherwise I would caution you to stay away from it. If you do, a small amount injected into a vein will have an impact within minutes. Make sure you addition some potassium to it immediately, and have someone watching your back at all times. Keeping a shot of epinephrine handy just in case is not being overly cautious.
Pharmaceutical Name: Furosemide
Chemical structure: 4,17beta-Dihydroxyestr-4-en-3-one
Molecular weight of base: 330.7423
Effective dose: 20-60 mg/day
Average Street-price: $10 for 30 tabs of 40 mg
Available Doses: 20, 40 and 500 mg tablets, or injectables
Products: Diural, Diurapid,Durafurid, furomex, furanthril, furomin, furon, furonet, furosemide, furosifar, fusid, impugan, lasix, seguril, semid, sigalasur, trofurit, vesix
Characteristics:
Furosemide is the most powerful and most widely used diuretic drug in the world. The injectable version is fast-acting, and dries someone out like prune. Its used in the medical field, mostly in the emergency room, to purge people who have ingested large doses of toxins, hoping that the toxins can be excreted before they enter the system and so avoiding worse problems. It also makes a good shock treatment for people who are admitted with dangerously high blood pressure. Its very multi-functional, but its also a very dangerous drug. It signals the body to immediately excrete both intracellular and extracellular water, and with it the key electrolytes sodium and potassium. This can lead to severe problems. Muscle contraction is based on the exchange of electrolytes. That means in first instance an electrolyte imbalance can causing cramping and other irregularities in muscle contraction. Now if its only a calf or a bicep, no harm done in the long run. But when its your heart muscle, that's another story. In 1985 professional bodybuilder Mohammed "Momo" Benazziza fell dead after winning a Grand Prix, the cause of death was believed to be his pre-contest use of the diuretic Lasix.
In most sports diuretics are used to lose small amounts of weight in a hurt. If you compete in weight classes and need to drop a pound in an hour, lasix will do the trick for you. Cleans the water from your body and you are lighter. If you have a match the next day, you are probably heavier again, so a major advantage. In bodybuilding the use of diuretics is for another reason entirely. The aim is after all to show as much muscle as possible, and to show as much definition and striation within that muscle. Unfortunately even at the dangerously low body-fat percentages bodybuilders compete at, a lot of that definition may still be hidden under layers of subcutaneous water. By using diuretics, that water can be shed and the maximum potential of a physique can be retained. In many cases, the levels of water retained by an athlete has made the difference between doing very well and doing very poorly. And the differences in the water household between the pre-judging of a contest and the evening show have sometimes made the difference between several placings. So diuretics have become an integral part of bodybuilding over the last 20 years.
Furosemide comes in oral tablets of 20 and 40 mg and in an injectable form. The injectable is the most potent. Its injected intravenously, as opposed to most steroids which are injected intramuscularly. It can become active in a matter of minutes and has a drastic effect. But as described previously, also a very dangerous one. The orals will usually take 60-90 minutes to kick in, but have a fairly drastic effect themselves. Furosemide is without a doubt the most potent diuretic in the world. An athlete will rarely opt to take more than 40 mg daily, and only in the last 4 or 5 days leading up to a show. The Injectable version is only used pre-contest, especially if there is testing. Testing for diuretics has become very popular in bodybuilding of late, and that has driven more athletes to wait until after taking their piss, and then inject some Lasix to get rid of the last bit of water. Needless to say this is a reckless practice. If a stronger effect is required, athletes are more likely to opt for adding another, milder diuretic like spironolactone (Aldactone), instead of increasing the dosage of lasix. There are a number of combination diuretics like Lasilactone that enjoy great popularity in the sports sector. Usually they near the potency of using twice as much lasix, but with much less hazard.
Stacking and Use:
Since its so harmful and potentially lifethreatening, furosemide should only be used the last 4-7 days leading up to a contest, with around 20 mg a day, 40 mg at the very most. If a stronger effect is needed, additioning a milder diuretic is advised. 50 mg of spironolactone or hydrochlorthiazide, which are potassium sparing diuretics, will usually do the trick. Adding a potassium supplement to furosemide is wise, 1500-3000 mg daily normally. This keeps electrolytes somewhat in balance and helps prevent the worst of side effects such as nausea, dizziness and cramping. There isn't much use for ancillary drugs with furosemide otherwise. Its an anti-hypertensive in itself, so it could offer relief after a dieting period with ephedrine, clenbuterol and high dose androgens. One should always take care to replenish his water and salt intake after use is discontinued.
Many users will note a very distinct bloating after discontinuing the product, sometimes to the point where everyday movement is near impossible. During the use of this product extremely heavy and painful cramps can occur, as well as Diarrhea, dehydration, dry mouth, dizziness and nausea.
If the injectable is used, make sure its out of necessity. Otherwise I would caution you to stay away from it. If you do, a small amount injected into a vein will have an impact within minutes. Make sure you addition some potassium to it immediately, and have someone watching your back at all times. Keeping a shot of epinephrine handy just in case is not being overly cautious.
PRECONTEST WATER ELIMINATION
Question: I understand you are in the process of dieting for a show, I hope you place well...Would you mind answering a competition question for me? I need to know a bit about pre-contest water preparation. What exactly does a "water coach" do? I want to use diuretics as I have lasix injectables but I know it can be risky. Any advice?
Answer: The last week before a show is of monumental importance to any competitive bodybuilder. During that week, a competitor will typically take the necessary steps to achieve glycogen supercompensation and also rid themselves of any extra water they might be retaining. Typically, almost every competitive bodybuilder, sans the naturals of course, will use some kind of diuretic before the show. This process is perhaps one of the most misunderstood in bodybuilding, and it's rare to find an athlete that hits the mark. While the use of diuretics is generally accepted as a necessary evil given the stringent competitive standards in the sport, there seems to be a dearth of those that are knowledgeable in their use.
Perhaps the most important steps that need to be taken are those that occur before diuretics become a factor. All too often, competitors will overuse diuretics before a show because they failed to diet properly, failed to restrict sodium properly, or failed to carb load properly. Nothing is more pathetic than a bodybuilder holding entirely too much fat before a contest who tries to convince himself that the causative factor in his horrible definition is not the fact that he's fat, but rather that he's holding too much water. Obviously, all the diuretics in the world aren't going to help this poor soul.
Proper carb loading is of paramount importance when it comes to drying out for a show, as the intake of too many carbs will result in the "spilling over" of glycogen from muscle cells, causing a great deal of water retention. Remember, glycogen is hydrophilic, and one of the reason why we carb load is to make muscle cells store not only super levels of glycogen, but water as well. In fact, every gram of stored glycogen will result in 3 grams of stored water. However, that water quickly becomes our enemy when it spills out into the extracellular fluid. Carb loading is a complicated subject, and a thorough discussion would take far more space than this Q&A will allow, but there are some basic principals that can be covered here.
Start carb depleting six days out from your show. Typically, I tell athletes to shoot for .5 g of carbs per kilogram of bodyweight during their 3 day depletion phase. On this system, a 220 lb bodybuilder would only be allowed 50 grams of carbs each day for three days. During this three day period, the body should be trained in a fashion to deplete glycogen stores as much as possible, now is not the time to go in and train one body part per day in a Heavy Duty type system. The entire body should be trained in an exhaustive fashion each of these days in order to deplete glycogen stores as thoroughly as possible. Workouts should consist of large volume high repetition sets using light weights as lifting heavy has been proven to interfere with glycogen synthesis. After the three day depletion period, carb up using a schedule of 1 g carb/kg/2 hours. In case that's confusing, that means that the same 220 lb bodybuilder will need to consume 100 grams of carbs every 2 hours he's awake for the three day loading period. This means that he'll consume approximately 800 grams of carbs/day for three days (calculated using 8 hours of sleep/night as standard). Contrary to popular belief, it's best to load on simple carbohydrates, as has been demonstrated in several studies. Fruit is not an option, as fructose will only raise liver glycogen stores significantly, not that of muscle.
It's common knowledge that sodium needs to be restricted prior to a bodybuilding competition in order to appear "dry" on stage. However, what isn't common knowledge is that sodium should only be restricted at most for 72 hours prior to the contest! It's not unusual to see bodybuilders restricting sodium intake for weeks prior to their actual contest, carrying around jugs of sodium free water while they train. Not only is this unnecessary, it's actually counterproductive to their goal of eliminating as much subcutaneous fluid as possible come the day of the show. Restricting sodium will cause an increase in aldosterone secretions, which in turn will decrease the rate at which sodium is excreted from the body. Restricting water intake for long period of time will also cause an increase in aldosterone secretions, so water should not be restricted for more than 48 hours. It's a good rule of thumb to drink enough water to satisfy your thirst the day before the show, then take small sips when necessary the day of the show.
Bodybuilders who properly diet, carb load, and sodium deplete will generally need very little in the way of diuretics to get the job done. Injectable lasix is actually a very good choice for a diuretic, as it has a very short life in the body and is much easier to use EXACTLY the right amount rather than taking a handful of pills and hoping you used the proper dose. Because an IV injection of lasix will have an immediate effect and will be completely eliminated from the body within 3 hours, it's fairly easy to use small 20 mg IV injections the night before the show every three hours until the desired level of dryness is achieved. Again, if you've prepared properly for you show in advance, very little diuretic will be necessary and it would be rare for a competitor to need more than two 20 mg IV injections to lasix to dry out at this point.
Question: I understand you are in the process of dieting for a show, I hope you place well...Would you mind answering a competition question for me? I need to know a bit about pre-contest water preparation. What exactly does a "water coach" do? I want to use diuretics as I have lasix injectables but I know it can be risky. Any advice?
Answer: The last week before a show is of monumental importance to any competitive bodybuilder. During that week, a competitor will typically take the necessary steps to achieve glycogen supercompensation and also rid themselves of any extra water they might be retaining. Typically, almost every competitive bodybuilder, sans the naturals of course, will use some kind of diuretic before the show. This process is perhaps one of the most misunderstood in bodybuilding, and it's rare to find an athlete that hits the mark. While the use of diuretics is generally accepted as a necessary evil given the stringent competitive standards in the sport, there seems to be a dearth of those that are knowledgeable in their use.
Perhaps the most important steps that need to be taken are those that occur before diuretics become a factor. All too often, competitors will overuse diuretics before a show because they failed to diet properly, failed to restrict sodium properly, or failed to carb load properly. Nothing is more pathetic than a bodybuilder holding entirely too much fat before a contest who tries to convince himself that the causative factor in his horrible definition is not the fact that he's fat, but rather that he's holding too much water. Obviously, all the diuretics in the world aren't going to help this poor soul.
Proper carb loading is of paramount importance when it comes to drying out for a show, as the intake of too many carbs will result in the "spilling over" of glycogen from muscle cells, causing a great deal of water retention. Remember, glycogen is hydrophilic, and one of the reason why we carb load is to make muscle cells store not only super levels of glycogen, but water as well. In fact, every gram of stored glycogen will result in 3 grams of stored water. However, that water quickly becomes our enemy when it spills out into the extracellular fluid. Carb loading is a complicated subject, and a thorough discussion would take far more space than this Q&A will allow, but there are some basic principals that can be covered here.
Start carb depleting six days out from your show. Typically, I tell athletes to shoot for .5 g of carbs per kilogram of bodyweight during their 3 day depletion phase. On this system, a 220 lb bodybuilder would only be allowed 50 grams of carbs each day for three days. During this three day period, the body should be trained in a fashion to deplete glycogen stores as much as possible, now is not the time to go in and train one body part per day in a Heavy Duty type system. The entire body should be trained in an exhaustive fashion each of these days in order to deplete glycogen stores as thoroughly as possible. Workouts should consist of large volume high repetition sets using light weights as lifting heavy has been proven to interfere with glycogen synthesis. After the three day depletion period, carb up using a schedule of 1 g carb/kg/2 hours. In case that's confusing, that means that the same 220 lb bodybuilder will need to consume 100 grams of carbs every 2 hours he's awake for the three day loading period. This means that he'll consume approximately 800 grams of carbs/day for three days (calculated using 8 hours of sleep/night as standard). Contrary to popular belief, it's best to load on simple carbohydrates, as has been demonstrated in several studies. Fruit is not an option, as fructose will only raise liver glycogen stores significantly, not that of muscle.
It's common knowledge that sodium needs to be restricted prior to a bodybuilding competition in order to appear "dry" on stage. However, what isn't common knowledge is that sodium should only be restricted at most for 72 hours prior to the contest! It's not unusual to see bodybuilders restricting sodium intake for weeks prior to their actual contest, carrying around jugs of sodium free water while they train. Not only is this unnecessary, it's actually counterproductive to their goal of eliminating as much subcutaneous fluid as possible come the day of the show. Restricting sodium will cause an increase in aldosterone secretions, which in turn will decrease the rate at which sodium is excreted from the body. Restricting water intake for long period of time will also cause an increase in aldosterone secretions, so water should not be restricted for more than 48 hours. It's a good rule of thumb to drink enough water to satisfy your thirst the day before the show, then take small sips when necessary the day of the show.
Bodybuilders who properly diet, carb load, and sodium deplete will generally need very little in the way of diuretics to get the job done. Injectable lasix is actually a very good choice for a diuretic, as it has a very short life in the body and is much easier to use EXACTLY the right amount rather than taking a handful of pills and hoping you used the proper dose. Because an IV injection of lasix will have an immediate effect and will be completely eliminated from the body within 3 hours, it's fairly easy to use small 20 mg IV injections the night before the show every three hours until the desired level of dryness is achieved. Again, if you've prepared properly for you show in advance, very little diuretic will be necessary and it would be rare for a competitor to need more than two 20 mg IV injections to lasix to dry out at this point.
