Raloxifene vs. Nolvadex + Raloxifene for gyno

[paxman1]

I'm 25, I've had naturally occurred pubertal gyno for more than 5 years and I recently decided to get rid of it. I've been on Nolvadex for 12 weeks (20 mg ED) + Clomid (25 mg EOD) but there were no noticeable effects. Now I've decided to give Raloxifene a try.
I've read somewhere that a combination of Nolvadex and Raloxifene is especially strong and effective in gyno removal process. Should I combine them together or should I take Raloxifene alone? How long do you think I would need to take it to get gyno removed?

 

[juced_porkchop]

Hello, In most cases of OLD Gyno or pubertal gyno is only taken away by getting it cut out by doc.
You can try to shrink it, but most of the gyno removal you read about is new gyno or gyno from a recent cycle.
It is still worth a shot to try shrink it abit and see if thats enough for you.
I feel Ralox should be enough to get the results possible in your case.
Feel free to pm me if youthink I can be of help somehow.

I highly rec RUI's Ralox. I would also rec going for blood work if you havent, to check your estrogen levels and just be sure its not still high.
good luck man

 

[paxman1]

I've already been to endocrinologist who confirmed gyno with ultrasound, but he said that SERMS might cause prostate cancer in long term so I got completely nothing, not a tiny bit of therapy. I had to get nolvadex completely on my own. I was also on pharma grade letro for 12 weeks before trying nolvadex, but it didn't do anything as well.

I was also on blood test prescribed by endo back then, but estrogen was not measured unfortunately. They did however measure testosterone and it was very low - 10.5 nmol/L, but endo's argument was that testosterone therapy might even worsen the condition of gyno so again, I got nothing.

 

[Krav13]

I've already been to endocrinologist who confirmed gyno with ultrasound, but he said that SERMS might cause prostate cancer in long term so I got completely nothing, not a tiny bit of therapy. I had to get nolvadex completely on my own. I was also on pharma grade letro for 12 weeks before trying nolvadex, but it didn't do anything as well.

I was also on blood test prescribed by endo back then, but estrogen was not measured unfortunately. They did however measure testosterone and it was very low - 10.5 nmol/L, but endo's argument was that testosterone therapy might even worsen the condition of gyno so again, I got nothing.

I wonder if you would have told your doctor you were going to find it anyway, and dose yourself, if he would have changed his mind.

 

[juced_porkchop]

I've already been to endocrinologist who confirmed gyno with ultrasound, but he said that SERMS might cause prostate cancer in long term so I got completely nothing, not a tiny bit of therapy. I had to get nolvadex completely on my own. I was also on pharma grade letro for 12 weeks before trying nolvadex, but it didn't do anything as well.

I was also on blood test prescribed by endo back then, but estrogen was not measured unfortunately. They did however measure testosterone and it was very low - 10.5 nmol/L, but endo's argument was that testosterone therapy might even worsen the condition of gyno so again, I got nothing.

if t is low you should be on hrt IMO. and use an AI to control estrogen if needed. not a good excuse, find new doc IMO

 

[paxman1]

Well I need to get rid of gyno first, obviously on myself.

I have another question. Should I use arimidex (with raloxifene) even if my estrogen levels are normal? Should I even get estrogen tested since I'm on nolvadex + clomid right now? Won't results be unrealistic?

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Well I need to get rid of gyno first, obviously on myself.

I have another question. Should I use arimidex (with raloxifene) even if my estrogen levels are normal? Should I even get estrogen tested since I'm on nolvadex + clomid right now? Won't results be unrealistic?

No. If your e2 is normal tben that is healthy. Low e2 is just as unhealthy as high e2. It won't offer you any benefit anyway, the Ralox is already blocking estro from binding to the breast tissue.

 

[BreadTree]

If possible get a new endo, some of them don't know wtf they are doing & relying on outdated information. They think they are doing the right thing, but in some cases their ignorance actually hurts the patient. I'm not saying they are ll bad, but ome of them are messed up themselves.

 

[paxman1]

I will try to get a new doctor, but it's highly unlikable that I'll really get second opinion.

What do you guys think of 60 mg raloxifene ED + 20 mg nolvadex ED? Would that combo be even better than raloxifene alone?

 

[paxman1]

So I've been on Raloxifene for 4 weeks and so far no luck in lump reduction. However, I got tested Estradiol few days ago, here are the results: 29.65 ng/L (reference: 7.61 - 43.11). What do you think, should I get some aromasin? Would it help in combination with Raloxifene?

 

[Mprtz]

So I've been on Raloxifene for 4 weeks and so far no luck in lump reduction. However, I got tested Estradiol few days ago, here are the results: 29.65 ng/L (reference: 7.61 - 43.11). What do you think, should I get some aromasin? Would it help in combination with Raloxifene?

I wouldn't... the whole point of SERMS is to block the E2 from affecting your breast tissue, so lowering E2 shouldn't have much if any additional benefit. More likely you will drive your E2 too low.

I'll be following your progress...

 

[Captncavematt]

"I was also on pharma grade letro for 12 weeks before trying nolvadex, but it didn't do anything as well."

What dosage? I bet it did something, maybe not reverse gyno, but something. Sounds potentially miserable.

 

[paxman1]

"I was also on pharma grade letro for 12 weeks before trying nolvadex, but it didn't do anything as well."

What dosage? I bet it did something, maybe not reverse gyno, but something. Sounds potentially miserable.

They were 2.5 mg tablets from local pharma store (Novartis). I started with 1/4 of tablets for few weeks, then slowly progressed up to 2.5 mg ED. IIRC I was on 2.5 mg ED at least 4 weeks. I also tapper it down slowly. There really weren't any effects on gyno, only stiff, painful knees and lower libido. I didn't notice anything else.

 

[Madbrah]

Ive always read that Ralox didnt have an impact on IGF-1, but this site says so

The conclusion here is that SERMs such as Raloxifene and Nolvadex do exhibit a detrimental effect on muscle growth through the reduction of blood plasma levels of important hormones (namely, IGF-1) required for muscle growth. It is therefore advised that the administration of Raloxifene for whatever reasons (either for PCT or gynecomastia control/reduction) should be only as long as necessary to mitigate any Estrogen-related side effects during the use of aromatizable anabolic steroids. Short-term administration of Raloxifene doses should not mark a dramatic impact, but long term administration would indeed exhibit negative effects on muscle growth and performance. When long-term use of Raloxifene was examined in one study, after 24 months of Raloxifene treatment, test subjects***8217; IGF-1 levels were measured to be significantly lower than controls[7]. Another study, this time examining the effect of Raloxifene versus Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) on men, demonstrated no significant reduction of IGF-1 as a result of Raloxifene compared to Nolvadex[8]. One study conducted on acromegaly patients, 120mg per day of Raloxifene was administered (in split dosages of 60mg twice per day), which resulted in a reduction of IGF-1 levels by 16%[9]. The vast majority of studies conducted with Raloxifene have demonstrated statistically significant reductions of IGF-1 levels compared to the few studies that do not, and so it would be wise for any prospective anabolic steroid users to take this effect of Raloxifene dosages into account.

legit information?

 

[JimiThing]

Ive always read that Ralox didnt have an impact on IGF-1, but this site says so


legit information?

This would be my position on that.
1- There is conflicting data. Some studies shown no decrease, some do. Lets look at it in 2 senarios.
2- On cycle use of ralox. Surely any igf decrease if it occurs would be offset by the anabolics you are taking.
3- Off cycle use. The studies that show it make no mention of its effects on lean body mass, so that is speculation. While we know igf plays a role in muscle, we do not know if this decrease translates into a true reduction in muscle tissue. Also you have to take into account, raxlifene, like any serm, also increases Testosterone levels to a clinically significant degree. Does this T increase offset the decreased igf? I dont know but there is a great bit of speculation saying it would result in muscle loss.
When treating a medical condition like gyno you have to prioritize, what is most important. To me ridding gyno is priority one. I can build more muscle, but gyno should be taken care of. Many do not realize this but it is possible that gyno can turn malignant as well. I wouldnt be worried about a few lbs of muscle when treating gyno. Id be worried about treating gyno
So to sum it up we have conflicting data, use of ralox on cycle with anabolics, and using ralox with a POSSIBLE decrease in igf but combined with and increase of other anabolic hormones. I would think if ralo resulted in any significcant muscle loss that woud have been reported by the many who have run it for gyo reversal, and that simply is not the case. There is no holy grail hormone responsible for muscle gain or loss so just based on some studies showing an igf decrease (while some dont) and taking into account the other situations I mentioned and the potential offsetting effects, and the lack of any anecdotal reports of ralox causing drastic muscle loss, not to mention who cares when you can build more muscle but you really dont want fiberous growths n your breast tissue, this would not be of concern to me.

 

[Madbrah]

thanks Jimmi

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Jimi:
In terms of the original topic of the thread, surely you would agree that combining ralox with nolva is a terrible idea?

I fully agree with you on the slight reduction in igf1 from ralox not being a major issue when you consider the big picture.
However, combining it with nolva, another substance that reduces igf1, is asking for trouble IMO- especialy considering the fact that other compounds can do the same job as ralox without the igf1 reduction.

 

[JimiThing]

Jimi:
In terms of the original topic of the thread, surely you would agree that combining ralox with nolva is a terrible idea?

I fully agree with you on the slight reduction in igf1 from ralox not being a major issue when you consider the big picture.
However, combining it with nolva, another substance that reduces igf1, is asking for trouble IMO- especialy considering the fact that other compounds can do the same job as ralox without the igf1 reduction.

I dont think its terrible for the igf thing, I just think its a poor idea in general. Ralox binds more strongly the the e receptor in breast tissue than tamox. The added tamox you would be taking will in essence accomplish absolutely nothing when t comes to treating the gyno. There are anabolic steroids that lower igf as well (primarily dht based steroids), yet they could be taken and muscle would be gained. We are looking to retain as much of our gans as we can during pct yet we combine serms, why? Well because perhaps the benefit of restoring the production of our other endogenous anabolic hormones is more important to gains retention than igf? I dont want to derail the thread entirely here.
1-I dont think combining ralox and tamox is prudent for gyno treatment.
2-I think if you have gyno the last of your worries should be igf reduction and in fact the reduction of overall igf may not be bad when it comes to the growth of this type of tissue anyway.

 

[Therealkozmo]

Get a new doc that one is crap. Your gyno is set in IMO what you hear about being reversed is puffy nipples

 

[stevelifts]

Get a new doc that one is crap. Your gyno is set in IMO what you hear about being reversed is puffy nipples

His doc may or may not be crap but raloxifene has been shown to be effective at reversing even pubertal gyno. To not try it first would be pretty stupid IMO.