Really discouraged feel like quitting the whole TRT stuff

[orochi]

Hello,
I have really bad news.
First of all:
I live in a fucking country where TRT protocols absolutely suck and I have NO endo or intern or urologist who uses
stuff like HCG or Arimidex.
The only stuff available is: T gels, Nebido 1000mg T-undecanoat every 12 weeks, Testoviron 250mg every 2-3 weeks.

And here comes the latest problems.

All of a sudden my hormones are really messed up.

I recently had a measurement after 1 week to determine my "peak" levels.

Results was that serum T was absolutely mediocre at 16nmol/l!!!!
And my E2 was over 40! This is the highest it has ever been.
I don't know why this happens all of a sudden.

Back in November I had the same peak level measurement after 1 week
and back then my T was at the top of the normal range and E2 was at25!

It seems like injections produce incalculable results. I'm really discouraged.
I also don't feel better at all. And now where I know that even if you've measured hormones
before and they looked good that all of a sudden everything can change you suddenly E2 goes
up I feel like this is useless.
I mean I cannot get labs every week only in order to see if my hormones are okay or not.

Basically the only options left is to try Nebido but this is a really huge 4ml injection and I read bad stuff about it
causing lung embolisms and stuff like that. The advantage of Nebido towards Testoviron is that it doesn't create those
spikes which would probably be better in terms of E2.
But I really don't understand why my E2 is suddenly that high. Could external factors also raise E2 like too little sleep or
eating the wrong things?

I could go back on gels but I hate gels. They are hard on the skin and my skin is already totally dry and itchy even though
I dont shower much. And another disadvantage of gels is that they raise DHT more than injections which means more hair loss
and more risk for the prostate.

You guys in the US are so damn lucky. You have all the good stuff AI, HCG etc.

 

[Xander24]

I live in Australia too, but you need to find a better doctor. Mine actually said go ahead and take 250/ week of Testoviron and come back in 12 weeks and we will see where you are at. I'm only taking 160mg / week though. Also prescribed HCG and an AI along with the Peptides Ipamorloine and Mod GRF 1-29. I'm now on a range of prescribed vitamins and minerals as well. You need to find an anti ageing clinic and a doctor that specialises in vitality. That is the path to feeling better in Australia.

 

[IMT staff]

I live in Australia too, but you need to find a better doctor. Mine actually said go ahead and take 250/ week of Testoviron and come back in 12 weeks and we will see where you are at. I'm only taking 160mg / week though. Also prescribed HCG and an AI along with the Peptides Ipamorloine and Mod GRF 1-29. I'm now on a range of prescribed vitamins and minerals as well. You need to find an anti ageing clinic and a doctor that specialises in vitality. That is the path to feeling better in Australia.

You should ask your doctor if he is interested in working with us, we need a guy like that in Australia.

 

[orochi]

As I already said there are NO doctors here who uses this stuff!

I have been searching for YEARS to even find an endo willing to put me on TRT!

 

[Xander24]

Do you live in Sydney? If so PM me. You are wrong, mate. Anti Ageing clinics have doctors that will test you. And if you HGH and Test deficient they will help you. I was deficient in so many thing, D3, Vitamin K, and B2. I had massive inflammation as my diet was shit. Dude, there are good docs in Australia. You've had a bad run of luck, that is all. I live in Australia, I have an awesome doctor who gives me what i need and knows what he is talking about.

 

[Xander24]

You should ask your doctor if he is interested in working with us, we need a guy like that in Australia.

I'm going in in 4 weeks for my 6 week bloods. I'll refer him to your site.

 

[orochi]

I do NOT live in Australia. Never said that.

 

[Xander24]

Well your description sounded like you do, might be helpful and enable us to actually help you if you actually told us where you live. Unless you just want to have a whinge, in which case we can just listen. I have heard only good things about Nebido..

 

[IMT staff]

I'm going in in 4 weeks for my 6 week bloods. I'll refer him to your site.

thanks

 

[orochi]

I'm in germany. TRT protocols here are medieval.
Maybe there are a few hormone gurus here but first of all I dont know where and they'd also charge a crap load of money and I cannot afford that.

 

[Xander24]

I'm in germany. TRT protocols here are medieval.
Maybe there are a few hormone gurus here but first of all I dont know where and they'd also charge a crap load of money and I cannot afford that.

This has cost me good deal of money. That is for sure. Save, because you can't put a price on your health and well being. They are priceless. Your other option is to get bloodwork yourself, get test Cyp or E, HCG, and an AI yourself and self medicate. Dial it in with feeling and bloodwork and report here for advice on your dosages and bloodwork. If doc's won't help then screw them, mate.

 

[orochi]

The problem is even if there are some self-proclaimed hormone experts then there is NO guarantee at all that this will work.
Chances are that they totally rip me off and I still dont get proper treatment. I am too scared of that.

 

[Xander24]

The problem is even if there are some self-proclaimed hormone experts then there is NO guarantee at all that this will work.
Chances are that they totally rip me off and I still dont get proper treatment. I am too scared of that.

Then take matters into your own hands and self medicate. Start on a protocol of:

Test E: 75mg twice /week
HCG: 250IU twice / week
Keep an AI on hand, I recommend examestane, but as you are already high on E2 maybe start at 6.25mg EOD.

Bloodwork every 6 weeks until you are dialled in. That's my advice if you can't find a good doc and are too scared of their treatment even if you do.

Your other option is to remain in the state you are in and not live life to the fullest.

 

[orochi]

Hello,
there are 2 problems.

1) I cannot self-inject into a muscle. WAYYYY to scared. Absolutely not possible.

2) How safe are AIs for men? Are they hard on the liver or can they cause cancer? I thought arimidex was the best AI is it not?

 

[Megatron28]

Hello,
there are 2 problems.

1) I cannot self-inject into a muscle. WAYYYY to scared. Absolutely not possible.

2) How safe are AIs for men? Are they hard on the liver or can they cause cancer? I thought arimidex was the best AI is it not?

No point in discussing any of this until you can work out your psychological problems with injections. Perhaps you could do subcutaneous injections?

Get some hCG and practice injecting that subq. Once you master that let's talk. Seek the help of a psychologist.

 

[Xander24]

Hello,
there are 2 problems.

1) I cannot self-inject into a muscle. WAYYYY to scared. Absolutely not possible.

2) How safe are AIs for men? Are they hard on the liver or can they cause cancer? I thought arimidex was the best AI is it not?

Well I suppose you would rather live a less than optimal life and are willing to let fear dictate a declining health. I can't help you there. Have a read of these threads, and as Megatron says, once you "MAN UP" lets help get you on the right track to optimal health. You also never told us your age.

steroidology.com/forum/testosterone-replacement-therapy/616291-getting-help-first-injection.html

steroidology.com/forum/testosterone-replacement-therapy/662394-basic-trt-overview.html

 

[orochi]

Guys do you not read what I write?

Even if I was not afraid of selfinjections my endo does not allow it and this means he will not prescribe me testo for SI!
And I cannot afford to buy it on the black market and on top of that AI and HCG. This doesnt work okay!?

I could inject HCG on my own but then I'd also need an AI. And I would have to buy all of this on the black market not even knowing if I get a fake
or not. This seems very dangerous to me.

Also I dont know how dangerous AIs are for men. Answer me this if you can!
What side effects do they have? Do they destroy the liver? Can they be mixed with other drugs like antidepressants? I need to know that shit.

 

[Megatron28]

Guys do you not read what I write?

Even if I was not afraid of selfinjections my endo does not allow it and this means he will not prescribe me testo for SI!
And I cannot afford to buy it on the black market and on top of that AI and HCG. This doesnt work okay!?

I could inject HCG on my own but then I'd also need an AI. And I would have to buy all of this on the black market not even knowing if I get a fake
or not. This seems very dangerous to me.

Also I dont know how dangerous AIs are for men. Answer me this if you can!
What side effects do they have? Do they destroy the liver? Can they be mixed with other drugs like antidepressants? I need to know that shit.

Why do you think would you absolutely need an AI if you start using hCG?

There are no longterm studies on men using AI's that I am aware of. It is off label usage of the medication. But there are studies showing that AI's are effective in men on TRT. And we do know the long term effects of high estrogen in men. So unfortunately, you will have to make a decision with imperfect information about whether or not to use an AI.

Side effects? None themselves. The effects are felt in lower E2. If you use too much AI your E2 will be too low. Low E2 is unhealthy for men. You have to find the right dose of AI for you. You will hear us refer to this as getting dialed in.


Can they be used with other drugs? Yes. As with any medication you should look up known drug interactions and ask your pharmacist.

Destroy the liver? Not in the dosages used by men.

You can learn this "shit" by doing your research too. Read studies on pubmed and medical literature. Read past threads on this forum. Don't sit there and expect to be spoon fed everything.

Still all a moot conversation though if you are psychologically incapable of self injecting. You need to seek the help of a psychologist for this issue and your depression. Staying on depression medications is not a healthy long-term solution. You need to address the underlying problem if possible. Determine if your depression is physiological or psychological or both.

 

[cybrsage]

Testosterone is relatively cheap, you can buy it from underground labs and know it is real. It is simply too cheap for people to bother faking it. It is against site rules to ask for sources (for very good reasons), but if you read around and click around on the site, I am sure you can figure things out on your own.

 

[Fred87]

I do NOT live in Australia. Never said that.

Where do you live?
I live in Italy and it's basically the same, Testoviron every 3 weeks or Gel and thats it!
Whats even worse is that I cant really get out of TRT cause my hypogonadism is irreversible