Saw my old family doc today........

[2rude4u]

Product label says: "Not for human consumption for research purposes only"
I'm suppose to gauge recovery on this?
C'mon guys!

Hate to say it man... but I think you may be better off starting with a different kind of doctor.

You need to get your head on straight before you will have a shot at any meaningful chance of recovery.

 

[Alpin]

Hate to say it man... but I think you may be better off starting with a different kind of doctor.

You need to get your head on straight before you will have a shot at any meaningful chance of recovery.

He's a good doctor....
he was very positive and he agreed these levels need to come up. He said he would help. He also referred me to an endo and a weight loss clinic at a hospital.
The other doc was bringing me down...he said levels are fine...you just need to lose weight and take wellbutrin if you want. I said "No thanks".
I just came back from a run and wore a lot of layers...had a heavy sweat and was 278 lbs when I came home and weighed myself just now.
I feel a little better after a run vs. just weigh training....maybe it's endorphins ???

 

[Alpin]

It's got to say that so they can legally be allowed to sell it to you. It's for your "research". With your time on this board are you really questioning the legitimacy of RUI of all places? C'mon now.

ok sorry....my bad...
I never looked into them. I avoid clicking on the icons to avoid pop ups e.t.c.

 

[Alpin]

Maybe 10 mg of Nolvadex/day for a month... might shed some more weight on me....
take blood test and if levels still suck start it up with H.C.G. 500 i.u. 2 times a week...
Nolva raises LH too and sheds water weight.
Clomid will bring up E2 at this stage of the game for me...
maybe it is not the right thing to take now???

 

[2rude4u]

Hate to say it man... but I think you may be better off starting with a different kind of doctor.

You need to get your head on straight before you will have a shot at any meaningful chance of recovery.

He's a good doctor....
he was very positive and he agreed these levels need to come up. He said he would help. He also referred me to an endo and a weight loss clinic at a hospital.
The other doc was bringing me down...he said levels are fine...you just need to lose weight and take wellbutrin if you want. I said "No thanks".
I just came back from a run and wore a lot of layers...had a heavy sweat and was 278 lbs when I came home and weighed myself just now.
I feel a little better after a run vs. just weigh training....maybe it's endorphins ???

I don't think you're understanding what I am suggesting.

 

[Alpin]

Trying to follow Rude...what are you thinking?

 

[Megatron28]

Maybe 10 mg of Nolvadex/day for a month... might shed some more weight on me....
take blood test and if levels still suck start it up with H.C.G. 500 i.u. 2 times a week...
Nolva raises LH too and sheds water weight.
Clomid will bring up E2 at this stage of the game for me...
maybe it is not the right thing to take now???

I don't know. Do you have any long-term studies on the effectiveness and safety of Nolvadex? It is a cancer drug after all. What if you all of a sudden get heavy vaginal bleeding? Look at all the side-effects:

Allergic reaction: Itching or hives, swelling in your face or hands, swelling or tingling in your mouth or throat, chest tightness, trouble breathing

Chest pain, shortness of breath, or coughing up blood.

Dark-colored urine or pale stools.

Fever, chills, cough, sore throat, and body aches.

Heavy or abnormal vaginal bleeding, pelvic pain or pressure.

Nausea, vomiting, loss of appetite, or pain in your upper stomach.

New breast lumps.

Numbness or weakness in your arm or leg, or on one side of your body.

Pain in your lower leg (calf).

Sudden or severe headache, or problems with vision, speech, or walking.

Swelling in your hands, ankles, or feet.

Unusual bleeding, bruising, or weakness.

Yellowing of your skin or the whites of your eyes.



How do you know HCG is safe too? Isn't it a fertility medication for women? What if is down regulates your LH receptors? How long is it safe to take HCG? And any studies about taking it with Nolva? There could be bad synergistic effects.

What if your mom or dad or sister find out you are taking cancer and female fertility drugs?

Maybe you should just lose weight and take some Thorazine.

 

[halfwit]

I don't know. Do you have any long-term studies on the effectiveness and safety of Nolvadex? It is a cancer drug after all. What if you all of a sudden get heavy vaginal bleeding? Look at all the side-effects:

Allergic reaction: Itching or hives, swelling in your face or hands, swelling or tingling in your mouth or throat, chest tightness, trouble breathing

Chest pain, shortness of breath, or coughing up blood.

Dark-colored urine or pale stools.

Fever, chills, cough, sore throat, and body aches.

Heavy or abnormal vaginal bleeding, pelvic pain or pressure.

Nausea, vomiting, loss of appetite, or pain in your upper stomach.

New breast lumps.

Numbness or weakness in your arm or leg, or on one side of your body.

Pain in your lower leg (calf).

Sudden or severe headache, or problems with vision, speech, or walking.

Swelling in your hands, ankles, or feet.

Unusual bleeding, bruising, or weakness.

Yellowing of your skin or the whites of your eyes.



How do you know HCG is safe too? Isn't it a fertility medication for women? What if is down regulates your LH receptors? How long is it safe to take HCG? And any studies about taking it with Nolva? There could be bad synergistic effects.

What if your mom or dad or sister find out you are taking cancer and female fertility drugs?

Maybe you should just lose weight and take some Thorazine.

Watch out for that water stuff too. I hear it can cause death in large quantities!

 

[Alpin]

I don't know. Do you have any long-term studies on the effectiveness and safety of Nolvadex? It is a cancer drug after all. What if you all of a sudden get heavy vaginal bleeding? Look at all the side-effects:

Allergic reaction: Itching or hives, swelling in your face or hands, swelling or tingling in your mouth or throat, chest tightness, trouble breathing

Chest pain, shortness of breath, or coughing up blood.

Dark-colored urine or pale stools.

Fever, chills, cough, sore throat, and body aches.

Heavy or abnormal vaginal bleeding, pelvic pain or pressure.

Nausea, vomiting, loss of appetite, or pain in your upper stomach.

New breast lumps.

Numbness or weakness in your arm or leg, or on one side of your body.

Pain in your lower leg (calf).

Sudden or severe headache, or problems with vision, speech, or walking.

Swelling in your hands, ankles, or feet.

Unusual bleeding, bruising, or weakness.

Yellowing of your skin or the whites of your eyes.



How do you know HCG is safe too? Isn't it a fertility medication for women? What if is down regulates your LH receptors? How long is it safe to take HCG? And any studies about taking it with Nolva? There could be bad synergistic effects.

What if your mom or dad or sister find out you are taking cancer and female fertility drugs?

Maybe you should just lose weight and take some Thorazine.

You are funny. You experienced Thorazine yourself I take it??

 

[Megatron28]

You are funny. You experienced Thorazine yourself I take it??

I'm just concerned about you. I wouldn't want to see you make a rash decision. You need to really look at all the research out there. Give it a few years to really think things through properly.

 

[Alpin]

I'm just concerned about you. I wouldn't want to see you make a rash decision. You need to really look at all the research out there. Give it a few years to really think things through properly.

I know I'm pissing people off here and that is not my prerogative. But you have to understand my position and where I am coming from.
I listened to some jerk 9 years ago about AAS....took one cycle for 10 weeks and did a Nolva, HCG PCT for a 1 month....
I regret ever getting involved with this stuff!!!!
Felt somewhat sluggish months later and had LOW FSH and this family doc here sent me to an Endo who did nothing cause he saw my T.T levels at 582 ng/dl....
and I wound up in a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) clinic looking for advice and the doc there told me these levels are no good and then threw scripts at me...
I had Very Severe Sleep apnea all these years and this family doc never sent me in for a study....
So from here on out I have to be careful and exhaust all avenues before committing.
The Clomid and Restart stuff is good advice and I thank you and everyone else for their meaningful contributions.
I will drop more weight and assess from there my next move....

 

[halfwit]

FYI: Losing weight with low test is one hell of an uphill battle. I know this from experience, believe you me.

If it were me, I'd get to "researching" with help from our friendly neighborhood red lion. One foot in front of the other Apollon, it's that simple brother.

 

[Megatron28]

I know I'm pissing people off here and that is not my prerogative. But you have to understand my position and where I am coming from.
I listened to some jerk 9 years ago about AAS....took one cycle for 10 weeks and did a Nolva, HCG PCT for a 1 month....
I regret ever getting involved with this stuff!!!!
Felt somewhat sluggish months later and had LOW FSH and this family doc here sent me to an Endo who did nothing cause he saw my T.T levels at 582 ng/dl....
and I wound up in a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) clinic looking for advice and the doc there told me these levels are no good and then threw scripts at me...
I had Very Severe Sleep apnea all these years and this family doc never sent me in for a study....
So from here on out I have to be careful and exhaust all avenues before committing.
The Clomid and Restart stuff is good advice and I thank you and everyone else for their meaningful contributions.
I will drop more weight and assess from there my next move....

Sometimes when you take too long deciding the "ship sails" without you. Be careful as you have a penchant to let analysis paralyze you. I can only imagine how hard it must be for you to buy a car.

 

[Alpin]

Fat High, T Low

By: Jerry Brainium
Those interested in increasing their testosterone levels in a completely natural manner'without using any type of drug or even food supplement'may be interested in what follows. One caveat, however: The information applies only if you have excess bodyfat. Studies show that testosterone levels bear a direct relationship to bodyfat levels. Generally, the fatter you are, the lower your total testosterone levels.
That's due to either a decreased level of a protein that carries testosterone in the blood or a decrease in the pituitary hormones that dictate testosterone synthesis and release. The blood protein that carries testosterone, sex-hormone-binding globulin (SHBG), is usually lower in men who have higher percentages of bodyfat. On the other hand, testosterone isn't active when it's bound to this protein. Only unbound, or free, testosterone can interact with cellular steroid receptors.

Most studies show little or no effect of bodyfat levels on free testosterone, but some show an inverse relationship between free testosterone levels and obesity. A lowered free-testosterone level most often reflects a problem with the release of pituitary hormones that control testosterone release, such as luteinizing hormone (LH). Decreased SHBG levels lower total testosterone levels because unbound testosterone is more subject to degradation or conversion into estrogen by aromatase enzymes, which are found in many tissues but particularly in bodyfat.

A new study sought to clear up the confusion over the relationship between testosterone, both free and bound, and bodyfat levels.1 The study featured two groups of obese men, ages 20 to 68. The subjects ate a 1,200-calorie diet for six months, and researchers monitored their hormone levels before and after the diet. To make the dieting process easier for the men, they were also given dexfenfluramine (15 milligrams a day) to help curb their appetites. They were compared to 20 other men who had normal bodyfat levels.

One reason obesity leads to a reduction of total testosterone is that higher levels of bodyfat are associated with elevated insulin levels. Insulin, in turn, decreases the synthesis of SHBG in the liver, leading to the drop in circulating total testosterone. As SHBG drops, free testosterone should increase, but with higher levels of bodyfat it's simply converted into estrogen by aromatase enzymes in fat tissue. The same holds true for pro-hormone supplements used by people who have higher bodyfat levels.

Losing bodyfat results in lower resting insulin levels, which leads to increased production of SHBG in the liver and, consequently, higher total testosterone levels in the blood. In the study discussed here, total testosterone and insulin levels didn't differ significantly between massively fat and moderately fat men, but the moderately fat men did show higher free-testosterone levels than the extremely fat men.

Once bodyfat exceeds a certain level, secretion of pituitary hormones that control testosterone release, such as luteinizing hormone, is blunted. Recent studies link that process to increased levels of leptin, a protein released from fat that acts as a fat signal to the brain. Fat people show higher levels of leptin, ostensibly due to a lack of leptin interaction in the brain. Higher leptin levels also interfere with testosterone synthesis in the Leydig cells of the testes, which explains the lower free-testosterone levels in very fat men.

But this study reported that both moderately and massively obese men showed higher total and free-testosterone levels, as well as higher LH levels along with lower insulin levels, after they lost bodyfat by dieting. Despite the decreased level of free testosterone in the very fat men, their sex lives and sex drives weren't noticeably affected. Free testosterone controls sex drive in both sexes, so the finding indicates that the obese men apparently still had enough free testosterone for sexual functioning.

 

[Alpin]

FYI: Losing weight with low test is one hell of an uphill battle. I know this from experience, believe you me.

If it were me, I'd get to "researching" with help from our friendly neighborhood red lion. One foot in front of the other Apollon, it's that simple brother.

I'm down 13 pounds since July....
That's what I don't understand. BIO AVAIL. T is in mid range...but T.T. is 291 ng/dl

 

[Alpin]

Sometimes when you take too long deciding the "ship sails" without you. Be careful as you have a penchant to let analysis paralyze you. I can only imagine how hard it must be for you to buy a car.

Not buying any new Car anytime soon...

 

[Megatron28]

I'm down 13 pounds since July....
That's what I don't understand. BIO AVAIL. T is in mid range...but T.T. is 291 ng/dl

I agree. Probably good for you to continue living with hypogonadism. After all, how good are those studies really that talk about the ill effects of Low T levels in men?

 

[Megatron28]

Not buying any new Car anytime soon...

We know! That will take you at least 2 years to decide on one.

 

[Megatron28]

I'm down 13 pounds since July....
That's what I don't understand. BIO AVAIL. T is in mid range...but T.T. is 291 ng/dl

Could it be the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) you're on maybe? What effect does that have on bioavailable and free-t?

 

[Megatron28]

Fat High, T Low

By: Jerry Brainium
Those interested in increasing their testosterone levels in a completely natural manner'without using any type of drug or even food supplement'may be interested in what follows. One caveat, however: The information applies only if you have excess bodyfat. Studies show that testosterone levels bear a direct relationship to bodyfat levels. Generally, the fatter you are, the lower your total testosterone levels.
That's due to either a decreased level of a protein that carries testosterone in the blood or a decrease in the pituitary hormones that dictate testosterone synthesis and release. The blood protein that carries testosterone, sex-hormone-binding globulin (SHBG), is usually lower in men who have higher percentages of bodyfat. On the other hand, testosterone isn't active when it's bound to this protein. Only unbound, or free, testosterone can interact with cellular steroid receptors.

Most studies show little or no effect of bodyfat levels on free testosterone, but some show an inverse relationship between free testosterone levels and obesity. A lowered free-testosterone level most often reflects a problem with the release of pituitary hormones that control testosterone release, such as luteinizing hormone (LH). Decreased SHBG levels lower total testosterone levels because unbound testosterone is more subject to degradation or conversion into estrogen by aromatase enzymes, which are found in many tissues but particularly in bodyfat.

A new study sought to clear up the confusion over the relationship between testosterone, both free and bound, and bodyfat levels.1 The study featured two groups of obese men, ages 20 to 68. The subjects ate a 1,200-calorie diet for six months, and researchers monitored their hormone levels before and after the diet. To make the dieting process easier for the men, they were also given dexfenfluramine (15 milligrams a day) to help curb their appetites. They were compared to 20 other men who had normal bodyfat levels.

One reason obesity leads to a reduction of total testosterone is that higher levels of bodyfat are associated with elevated insulin levels. Insulin, in turn, decreases the synthesis of SHBG in the liver, leading to the drop in circulating total testosterone. As SHBG drops, free testosterone should increase, but with higher levels of bodyfat it's simply converted into estrogen by aromatase enzymes in fat tissue. The same holds true for pro-hormone supplements used by people who have higher bodyfat levels.

Losing bodyfat results in lower resting insulin levels, which leads to increased production of SHBG in the liver and, consequently, higher total testosterone levels in the blood. In the study discussed here, total testosterone and insulin levels didn't differ significantly between massively fat and moderately fat men, but the moderately fat men did show higher free-testosterone levels than the extremely fat men.

Once bodyfat exceeds a certain level, secretion of pituitary hormones that control testosterone release, such as luteinizing hormone, is blunted. Recent studies link that process to increased levels of leptin, a protein released from fat that acts as a fat signal to the brain. Fat people show higher levels of leptin, ostensibly due to a lack of leptin interaction in the brain. Higher leptin levels also interfere with testosterone synthesis in the Leydig cells of the testes, which explains the lower free-testosterone levels in very fat men.

But this study reported that both moderately and massively obese men showed higher total and free-testosterone levels, as well as higher LH levels along with lower insulin levels, after they lost bodyfat by dieting. Despite the decreased level of free testosterone in the very fat men, their sex lives and sex drives weren't noticeably affected. Free testosterone controls sex drive in both sexes, so the finding indicates that the obese men apparently still had enough free testosterone for sexual functioning.

Do you have a link to the studies? And who's this Brainium guy?