Second cycle (long vs short cycle + compounds choise)

[n666]

Hello , so i was running my first cycle at January and that 12 weeks test e@500mg/week cycle ended nice,i was using aromasin + hcg and went to pct clomid+nolva
On that cycle i went from 74kg to 87 so it was like 13kg gains by clean eating but eating BIG, i was testing my limits to not gain fat and see how it goes. I had some huge problems in cycle non releated to the cycle itself and that cost me some outcome so it wasnt ideal 100% but i was happy with the outcome , i realy enjoy it because my skin was tight and full (if u remember from my other thread i was really fat some years ago and my skin isnt ok if i go lower than 75kg) and sides was just test sickness at first days and a little of anger issue but that was the best part , i learned to handle it even if i was short tempered before cycle , now i control it better , so i learned something
Now im sitting at 79kg after some mini cut i did one month ago (i was waiting enough, didnt start cut after pct ofc ). First cycle was like a first day at school, learned and understand so many things Did bloodworks everything went back to normal with no problem and how to go wrong , pct was solid and i just stick to the plan.

So its time for my second cycle and im realy excited because this time i want to run something more than test. At first i was thinking for tren ace but ofcourse its stupid to run it at this moment , its just my second cycle,so il keep tren for 5-6-7th cycle , no need to rush.
But what could i run and enjoy it? hmm i want to gain LBM so test/deca wasnt ideal in my mind , well with clean diet low on salt i could control the bloat but so many people said its not helping and i realy gona hate that bloat+moon face.
Plus deca durabolin means caber + ai x 2 boxes for a cycle = 200 euros for just caber + ai
should i run npp instead ? i was reading its better in terms of bloating . as far as i know i can get any pharm grade compound from my source and in good prices so i could use that while im noob, before i use ugl gear and probably run to worst sides , i could be more experienced then , first cycle was legit norma test e.

and last i need to decide short cycle 8 week vs 12 week joy
i love to be on for 12 weeks but i hate to wait for kick in 4-5 weeks , so im thinking to kickstart with diana week 1-4 and run test e 1-12 + other compound this time

give me your ideas , some people would go test + deca but im worring about the bloat , should the ai/caber + clean diet keep it off ? or not like some people say ?..

sorry for my bad english , im on a rush to go to work atm and it doesnt help either
thx

 

[tbonexl]

That's myth about deca. If you keep everything in check with an ai, you'll be fine. Caber is good to have on hand. If you choose deca, run test atleast 2 weeks longer...

 

[bigben66]

Yeah, your options are to add in an oral such as Turanabol for lean gains and a nice kick start and up the Test dose from what you were on originally.
Or add a second compound for the duration, such as Deca or Equipoise.
Many vets will tell you to steer clear of equipoise due its sides of raising the RBC and HCT - but I quite like it and have had great results with it as it offers a real leanness to your physique and great vascularity - the downside is that you have to run Eq for a minimum of 14 weeks to really see it shine.

tbonexl is correct, you can avoid the bloat associated with Deca if you manage estradiol properly, I actually used a low dose of Deca on a recent cut and got to around 8% bodyfat on it.

Deca is a commonly used compound for a 2nd cycle for good reason - it gives the user a chance to educate themselves on how their body reacts to a 19nor. Which is advantageous moving forward with further more refined cycles in mind.

You have to remember that this is all one learning process and you must keep the bigger picture in mind always.

If you are planning on cycling for a good few years, then I would go with the Deca and learn as much as you can about estradiol management.

If this is a cycle being run on a whim, then just bump up your Test dose and add an oral.

 

[Teutonic]

well damn tbone and BB this one s done lol

OP--an extra or other compound you could try is m1t...it is toxic. But I loved it...1 pill a day--2 max for 3-4 weeks max...amazing..little water....I did 2 weeks 2 week s off for 8 I think....

Food for thought

 

[n666]

Im thinking for test e + deca + kickstart tbh, i can keep my estradiol on check so i guess it wont be a problem, aromasin is easy to get and caber too, i just walk into a pharmacy and i buy them without prescription.
I dont know if i can find M1T, but even if i can i dunno , its a new compound compared to diana plus its more toxic and thats a drawback for me. Hmm , i have 2 or 3 weeks to think about it , il do more research to have a bigger picture till then

 

[bigben66]

Im thinking for test e + deca + kickstart tbh

Bad move... let's say you're 3 weeks into your cycle, and you start aromatizing like crazy...
What's caused it? - The Deca or the oral kickstart?

Precisely... you have no idea!
So you are 3 weeks into your 2nd cycle... you have learnt nothing, and you then can't plan cycle 3 because you don't know which compound caused the issues in the first place!

Listen man! Cycle clever, educate yourself and you'll achieve success - cycle stupidly, learn nothing, and end up looking like a bag of shite...

YOUR CHOICE!

 

[n666]

Bad move... let's say you're 2 weeks into your cycle, and you start aromatizing like crazy...
What's caused it? - The Deca or the oral kickstart?

Precisely... you have no idea!
So you are 2 weeks into your 2nd cycle... you have learnt nothing, and you then can't plan cycle 3 because you don't know which compound caused the issues in the first place!

Listen man! Cycle clever, educate yourself and you'll achieve success - cycle stupidly, learn nothing, and end up looking like a bag of shite...

YOUR CHOICE!

i agree with u , im not yolo shit here , but help me clear some things on my mind please. Il try to explain my thinking and i need u plz to tell me where im wrong on this.

first off im about to start taking ai from start if i use kickstart (dianabol) or at week 3 if i dont. I wont be waiting for sides to kick in.
, deca durabolin (not NPP , so it wont kick faster ) isnt about to kick anywhere before 3 to 4 weeks , isnt that right?
so 2 weeks into cycle dianabol will have already kicked and i will be able to know if it causes any problems because test e will not have kicked yet(ive already done with no problem but just saying) , deca will not have kicked yet , so if i get any sides the only cause could be the dianabol

its about timing , if i use one new compound that kick in week 3-4 or even later and one that kick in lets say one week or 10 days full force how can i be wrong with it?

im not trying to say ur wrong , im open to hear opinions from more experienced people , i know nothing yet
thanks

anyways , do u think i should kickstart with test prop instead of dianabol then ? i hate to wait for about 4-5 weeks to kick in this time

 

[bigben66]

But why are you trying to complicate your cycle?

You made good gains on Test only, you said that yourself...

You are still going to make good gains on Test and Deca - or Test and D'bol... that's a fact!

So why the fuck are you insistent on complicating matters, spending more money on gear than you have to, for minimal if any extra gain and much more risk!

It just doesn't make sense to me at all.

And remember this... whatever you take will only be successful if your diet, training and sleep are all dialed in - the AAS is just the icing on the cake.

 

[n666]

But why are you trying to complicate your cycle?

You made good gains on Test only, you said that yourself...

You are still going to make good gains on Test and Deca - or Test and D'bol... that's a fact!

So why the fuck are you insistent on complicating matters, spending more money on gear than you have to, for minimal if any extra gain and much more risk!

It just doesn't make sense to me at all.

And remember this... whatever you take will only be successful if your diet, training and sleep are all dialed in - the AAS is just the icing on the cake.

yep , ur right , enthusiasm had get me on wrong thinking , hah
im closer to test e + deca both pharm grade 100% legit. You're right , its stupid to complicate things up , i must try to get the more gains on less sides and work my way up.

i wish i had people like you around me , the friends and people i talk for gear in real life are way too extreme and reckless , most of them suggested me trenbolone or huge amounds of gear but ok i might be stupid sometimes but not so stupid hah
thanks again

 

[bigben66]

Nothing to be gained by recklessness... and LOTS to lose!

Stick around... you'll learn a shitload on here for future cycles, and educate yourself on how to cycle cleverly, safely and of course more importantly, recover!

 

[Mad- scientist]

I would just do test e and npp personally. It won't take to long for either one to kick in fully.

 

[Mad- scientist]

Or if your trying to not get bloated you could run anavar and test p. You might not gain a insane amount of muscle but you would have very little bloat and both compounds would kick in fast. I personally enjoyed npp alot though i didnt get to bloated from it.

 

[n666]

I would just do test e and npp personally. It won't take to long for either one to kick in fully.

i was thinking of npp while i was about to get kickstart into this cycle , but now that i decided not to kickstart it how should i do it if i desided to use npp ? i mean the timing isnt the same for test e and npp ,so if i use test e and deca it will be better this time.
by the way im thinking to run test e at 500mg/week x 12 weeks and deca @ 400mg x 10 weeks , is it enough for deca? what changes for npp ? i read some cycle plans and some people said if u choose npp instead of deca u should run it higher than deca. Just to clear things up because peoples opinions differes a lot on this and people around me that test should go like 750mg lol.....as i said they are not good sources for info

Thx

 

[tbonexl]

Why aren't you starting your ai at the beginning of the cycle regardless?

 

[n666]

Why aren't you starting your ai at the beginning of the cycle regardless?

good question , well thats not near my final plan anyways heh. I did start the ai from day 1 on my last cycle but these days i was searching other threads and i saw many people claim that starting ai from day 1 is a waste on long esters (test e , deca) and it should be used day 1 only if u run fast acting compounds so i was thinking maybe its a little overkill so i write it here to get suggestions in case its not the case. Others even claim to use them only if sides show up but i wont do this , i rather expand my budget 50-60 euros more than having to deal with sides i could counter before i even get them.

il keep researching for the compounds because im not done yet , im thinking maybe its better to keep deca for 3rd cycle to use it even better with more experience and use test e + dbol for second cycle. choises .. fact is that il use full protections , il introduce only one new compound per new cycle and il try use less to get the most. Diet and training is/was always in check , thats just an extra

 

[bigben66]

Gotta be honest.... with it being only your 2nd cycle... do you really need the hassle of the frequent pinning that NPP requires?

Makes more sense (hassle-wise and economically) to use Deca and learn estradiol management.

That way you can pin the Deca and the Test together

 

[n666]

so im about to get my stuff ready and start soon , im so happy tbh i like so much working out but working out on gear (even if i did only test e) is something else
Ive choosen the test e/deca route so il just keep it simple for this and the next cycle and even more if it works for me.
only thing bothers me is that ive been reading so many threads about it but i cant decide how long to run both.

First was about to run 12 weeks test e @ 500mg/week and 10 weeks deca@ 400mg/week (to let deca clear because of 3 weeks life compared to 2 week of test e and avoid deca sides) BUT people say u need to run deca at least 12 weeks , so that make me need to run test e 14 weeks. Thing is , i dunno whats best to do , is that 12weeks minimum true? should i make my cycle 14 weeks/12 weeks ? or should i stick to 12test-e/10-deca cycle as i planed at first? i dont have problem to run test 14 weeks because i can get as much gear as i want but is it good thing to do ? i keep reading that cycles should be like 12 weeks and not more because its harder to recover etc.

Im planing to have cabergoline on hand to run it at 1mg/week , should i start it day 1 or only if sides shows up ?
il start aromasin day 1 at 12.5/day and see how will go , i dont think il need more.

thx

 

[Hypnotix]

so im about to get my stuff ready and start soon , im so happy tbh i like so much working out but working out on gear (even if i did only test e) is something else
Ive choosen the test e/deca route so il just keep it simple for this and the next cycle and even more if it works for me.
only thing bothers me is that ive been reading so many threads about it but i cant decide how long to run both.

First was about to run 12 weeks test e @ 500mg/week and 10 weeks deca@ 400mg/week (to let deca clear because of 3 weeks life compared to 2 week of test e and avoid deca sides) BUT people say u need to run deca at least 12 weeks , so that make me need to run test e 14 weeks. Thing is , i dunno whats best to do , is that 12weeks minimum true? should i make my cycle 14 weeks/12 weeks ? or should i stick to 12test-e/10-deca cycle as i planed at first? i dont have problem to run test 14 weeks because i can get as much gear as i want but is it good thing to do ? i keep reading that cycles should be like 12 weeks and not more because its harder to recover etc.

Im planing to have cabergoline on hand to run it at 1mg/week , should i start it day 1 or only if sides shows up ?
il start aromasin day 1 at 12.5/day and see how will go , i dont think il need more.

thx

Start AI from day 1, as others have stated.

Should only need Caber on hand actually. You can use it for other reasons.. but I'll let you figure that out yourself

As far as length of cycle and dosing.. it's up to you to an extent. And when I was originally planning my second cycle I was going to do 500mgs-600mgs of each (Test/Deca) per week. Dosing varies widely per lab.. some test is 200mg/ml, 250mg, 300mg.. Deca can vary too. I would honestly keep it simple. 2 shots per week of each. Just like a first cycle but with the extra compound. Try to keep the numbers simple too.. Some will prefer more deca than test, others more test than deca.. Start whichever way your labs dosing makes easiest for you!

Onward.... Now, as far as leading into PCT.. Lets say the cycle length is 16 weeks. DO THIS

Deca XXXmg/wk for 14 weeks.
Test XXXmg/wk for 16 weeks.
HCG/AI/Caber Throughout as normal


Continue HCG until 3 days prior to PCT start at your normal protocol!

PCT begin.

 

[Hypnotix]

Ummm, so according to Schredder another member here. He actually recommends a waiting period between LAST Test injection, and FIRST day of PCT to be more like 3 weeks! Not, 10-14 days.

Says with Enanthate and Cypionate.. that 14 days can even be a little too short. Want absolutely no chance of anything causing shutdown while aiming for recovery!

 

[n666]

ok so im about to get my stuff ready soon so i post my plan to make any changes needed. I really dont feel confortable to make this cycle longer like 14 weeks test 12 weeks deca , dunno guys i just dont feel it that way , what do u think ? should i drop deca for something else or should i stick to 10 weeks with deca? ..?
Anyways thats my plan if i go the deca route , tell me what u think plz

week 1-12 test e @ 500mg/week 2x 250mg E3,5D
week 1-10 deca @ 400mg / week 2x 200mg shots) E3.5D
week 1-14 HCG @ 500iu/week 2x250iu E3.5D last shot 3d prior pct
week 4-12 Ai aromasin @ 12,5mg eod -> ed if needed
week ?? caber on hand and use it only if needed.

week 15-18 PCT clomid 100/50/50/50/ nolva 40/20/20/20

here comes my question but first il make clear that im not thinking to run tren , just a question
what makes tren worst than deca for second cycle ? ive read all sides etc , many threads about it and seems like deca will be same if not worst on recovering than tren a
im not comparing those two compounds , im just wondering why is it so bad idea for someone to run low test with like 300mg tren a /week but its ok to run deca ? ive read so many threads , and i mean MANY but didnt understand this, i understand tren is most powerful compound so its best to keep for later but side's wise i dont

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