Seeking advice about investigating testosterone therapy

[anderson.bos]

I'm new here. I don't know which forum to post my question in, so I'll start in this one.

Supposedly my testosterone level is normal (695), but I'm interested in consulting with medical specialists who favor testosterone booster treatment even for men with normal T levels. I don't know how to look into this, or how to find such a specialist.

My situation is that I'm 53 y.o., and have been experiencing -- building up gradually over years -- a number of symptoms associated with low or decreasing T levels. Specifically, increased body fat, reduced muscle mass and tone, fatigue, decreasing uprightness of posture, much less energy (compared to earlier years) to pursue activities such as running, exercise, etc. I'm a little over 5'9", and weigh 190 lbs (about 10 to 15 lbs over ideal weight, considering my body type).

My doctor gave me the gamut of blood tests about a year ago, and found only a deficit in vitamin E. I could post my blood work if anyone thinks its helpful. Either way, I'm intrigued by reports that boosting T levels up to the maximum normal -- 1000 or 1100 -- is not necessarily threatening to health, and can boost energy. I'd like to investigate.

Can anyone give me feedback, advice...anything at all? Thanks.

 

[Megatron28]

Can you post up all your blood work results? Maybe we will spot something. There are lots of other things that can cause those symptoms. For example, have you had a sleep study to check for Sleep Apnea?

What is your body fat %?

Do you do resistance training on a regular basis or play any sports?

 

[cybrsage]

Yes, please post blood work like Mega said. Also, you can contact one of the site sponsors which deals with lifestyle and general health improvements (as well as TRT), IncreaseMyT - their ad is the guy taking off his shirt and tie and showing us he thinks a white shirt without an undershirt is a good thing. OK, I cannot help but bust on the pic for that - pet peeve of mine is people wearing a white dress shirt without an undershirt - you can see through the white shirt. Yuck. Anyway, they are good at dealing with this type of issue.

But do post blood work, no one can really offer any advice without it.

 

[halfwit]

You have a total testosterone of almost 700 at 53 years old. The problem lies elsewhere for sure. Do you realllllllly want to put yourself on injections for the rest of your life for a very small increase OP?

I'd be doing cartwheels if I had a panel come back like that!

 

[3J]

You have a total testosterone of almost 700 at 53 years old. The problem lies elsewhere for sure. Do you realllllllly want to put yourself on injections for the rest of your life for a very small increase OP?

I'd be doing cartwheels if I had a panel come back like that!

i agree with halfwit... there is no point in raising your levels 300 points.. its a big commitment, hrt

 

[anderson.bos]

Can you post up all your blood work results? Maybe we will spot something. There are lots of other things that can cause those symptoms. For example, have you had a sleep study to check for Sleep Apnea?

What is your body fat %?

Do you do resistance training on a regular basis or play any sports?

To everyone: thanks for the replies. My blood work is listed below; it dates from one year ago.

My body fat is higher than normal, no doubt. I've weighed as high as 270 in the distant past, although I'm down to 195 lbs now. I want to work out a lot, but I can't because I always feel weak and sluggish. One of my motives for considering T therapy was to see if it gave me the extra strength to work out a lot over the short term (let's say four months), so I could reduce body fat. I figured I'd drop the T boosters after that and try to maintain my conditioning.

I don't have sleep apnea anymore, although I did have it ten years ago, when I was 270 lbs. I still suffer from poor sleep, but sleep specialists say there's nothing they can do about it. My poor sleep has plagued me for almost 20 years now.

It turns out that I had a vitamin D deficiency, not vitamin E. I've since rectified the vitamin D deficiency, but I still feel week.

Note: All result statuses are Final unless otherwise noted.

Tests: (1) CBC (H/H, RBC, INDICES, WBC, PLT) (1759QCA=)
WBC # Bld Auto
5.5 Thousand/uL 3.8-10.8
RBC # Bld Auto 4.53 Million/uL 4.20-5.80
Hgb Bld-mCnc 14.3 g/dL 13.2-17.1
Hct VFr Bld Auto 44.2 % 38.5-50.0
MCV RBC Auto 97.5 fL 80.0-100.0
MCH RBC Qn Auto 31.4 pg 27.0-33.0
MCHC RBC Auto-mCnc 32.2 g/dL 32.0-36.0
RDW RBC Auto-Rto 14.6 % 11.0-15.0
Platelet # Bld Auto 345 Thousand/uL 140-400

Tests: (2) QUESTASSURED 25-OH VIT D, (D2,D3), LC/MS/MS (17306RQTE=)
25(OH)D3 SerPl-mCnc
[L] 22 ng/mL 30-100
Vitamin D3 SerPl-mCnc 22 ng/mL
Vitamin D2 SerPl-mCnc <4 ng/mL
25-OHD3 indicates both endogenous production and
supplementation. 25-OHD2 is an indicator of exogenous
sources such as diet or supplementation. Therapy is based on
measurement of Total 25-OHD, with levels <20 ng/mL indicative
of Vitamin D deficiency, while levels between 20 ng/mL and
30 ng/mL suggest insufficiency. Optimal levels are
> or = 30 ng/mL.

Tests: (3) TESTOSTERONE,TOTAL,MALES (873QCA=)
Testost SerPl-mCnc
695 ng/dL 241-827
The following lab values were dispersed to the flowsheet
with no units conversion:

WHITE BLOOD CELL COUNT, 5.5 THOUSAND/UL, (F) expected units: 10*3/mm3
RED BLOOD CELL COUNT, 4.53 MILLION/UL, (F) expected units: 10*6/mm3
MCHC, 32.2 G/DL, (F) expected units: %
PLATELET COUNT, 345 THOUSAND/UL, (F) expected units: 10*3/mm3

-----------------

The following non-numeric lab results were dispersed to
the flowsheet even though numeric results were expected:

VITAMIN D, 25 OH, D2, <4

 

[3J]

you said this test was a year old??

go get retested.. in a fasted state.. see where you stand now

 

[anderson.bos]

you said this test was a year old??

go get retested.. in a fasted state.. see where you stand now

The test dates from August 2014. I'll get a new one done.

Why should I be in a fasted state? Also, for how long prior to taking the blood test should I be fasting?

 

[Megatron28]

You need to check your thyroid too (TSH).

Caloric Restriction can affect your testosterone and thyroid. So keep that in mind. How much of a caloric deficit are you running now?

What is your body fat percentage today?

How many hours per day are you exerciaing?

How may hours of sleep do you get on average?

Can you detail out your diet for us? Are you eating enough protein to maintain your muscle mass? How many grams per day? And are they primarily made io if complete protein chains?

What about the question around playing sports or doing resistance training? You missed answering that one

 

[Megatron28]

The test dates from August 2014. I'll get a new one done.

Why should I be in a fasted state? Also, for how long prior to taking the blood test should I be fasting?

12 hours. Fasting affects your glucose, lipids and some other things in your blood work.

That reminds me, check your lipids too

Are you doing anything to increase your vitamin D?

 

[anderson.bos]

12 hours. Fasting affects your glucose, lipids and some other things in your blood work.

That reminds me, check your lipids too

Are you doing anything to increase your vitamin D?

Ten months ago, my doctor started me on vitamin D supplements. The supplements made me feel a bit better, but did nothing to increase energy or physical vigor otherwise. Right now, I still can't run a mile, or even invest myself meaningfully in physical therapy (to fix postural problem caused by fibrosis). That's my real reason for contemplating taking T boosters...to get strong enough to work out intensely (which I haven't done for about 15 years).

I will answer the other questions shortly.

Another question: why do you need to know body fat percentage? How would that figure into my energy level, etc? I believe you know what you're talking about, so I'm going to ask my doctor to test me for body fat percentage. Still, I'd like a basic overview about how that issue may or may not be affecting my energy levels.

 

[RIB]

Look into zinc, will boost your test some. Hope you will get well soon!

 

[Megatron28]

Body fat % affects estrogen levels as the aromatase enzyme (which is commonly found in fat cells) converts testosterone into estrogen. If you have high body fat % you may want to check estradiol when you get blood work.

It helps if you are forthcoming. For example, mentioning fibrosis and that you are in physical therapy. Or not being able to run one mile.

Check your vitamin D again. A lot of times, doctors put guys on way too low of a dosage. If he put you on something like 2000iu per day you may need a whole lot more. Blood work will confirm.

 

[anderson.bos]

Body fat % affects estrogen levels as the aromatase enzyme (which is commonly found in fat cells) converts testosterone into estrogen. If you have high body fat % you may want to check estradiol when you get blood work.

It helps if you are forthcoming. For example, mentioning fibrosis and that you are in physical therapy. Or not being able to run one mile.

Check your vitamin D again. A lot of times, doctors put guys on way too low of a dosage. If he put you on something like 2000iu per day you may need a whole lot more. Blood work will confirm.

That's excellent info. Thanks. I'm emailing my doctor again. BTW, he never mentioned anything about estradiol. I'll request that he checks that as well.

Any other advice you can give?

 

[Megatron28]

I would encourage you to read this so that you can have a better understanding of the HPTA and TRT. This will allow you to have a more insightful conversation with your doctor.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/testosterone-replacement-therapy/662394-basic-trt-overview.html

So are you ever going to tell us your body fat %? . This is an anonymous forum after all.

 

[anderson.bos]

So are you ever going to tell us your body fat %? . This is an anonymous forum after all.

Right now, I don't know my body fat percentage. This morning I emailed my doctor and asked him how we could find out, in addition to doing new blood work. I'll let you know ASAP. Either way, I'm certain it must be high, probably 20% to 25%, at least.

Curiously, how would I go about finding a medical doctor who is one of the few willing to prescribe testosterone boosters to men with normal T levels? I don't mean HGH; I'm talking about androgel, testosterone cypionate, etc. My understanding is that, indeed, there are a small number of doctors who do indeed endorse boosting T levels even for guys with normal testosterone. They are part of a small and controversial school of thought, as I understand it. I'd at least like to talk to them. Thanks in advance.

 

[halfwit]

Right now, I don't know my body fat percentage. This morning I emailed my doctor and asked him how we could find out, in addition to doing new blood work. I'll let you know ASAP. Either way, I'm certain it must be high, probably 20% to 25%, at least.

Curiously, how would I go about finding a medical doctor who is one of the few willing to prescribe testosterone boosters to men with normal T levels? I don't mean HGH; I'm talking about androgel, testosterone cypionate, etc. My understanding is that, indeed, there are a small number of doctors who do indeed endorse boosting T levels even for guys with normal testosterone. They are part of a small and controversial school of thought, as I understand it. I'd at least like to talk to them. Thanks in advance.

That's not "boosting" your testosterone, it's REPLACING it as you cease making your own once you start. Testosterone "boosters" are absolute crap and do virtually nothing for you whatsoever. It's all marketing hype intended to make a quick buck.

If you're dead set on pursuing replacing your already (assuming no change since last time) fantastic test levels, your best bet is through "rejuvenation" or "wellness" clinics. Most are found online and while they still require a blood test, they are far more lax in restrictions when it comes to prescriptions. You will pay a fair chunk of change however, as insurance very likely will not cover these services.

Best of luck in your endeavors.

 

[Megatron28]

^^^^ Like Halfwit said, taking exogenous testosterone is not additive to your natural testosterone. It shuts down your natural testosterone. Why would your body make Testosterone when it thinks it already has enough?

There is only one drug that boosts natural testosterone levels. It is Clomifene. You could research that.

For body fat, Google "Body Fat Images". You will see pics that will allow you to approximate it. You can usually get pretty close. Or google " Body Pod Scan" and spend about $45 to have one done. It takea about 10 minutes and it is painless.

 

[anderson.bos]

Check your vitamin D again. A lot of times, doctors put guys on way too low of a dosage. If he put you on something like 2000iu per day you may need a whole lot more.

I've been prescribed 1000iu daily. About six days ago, I -- without consulting my doctor -- I increased 6000iu daily. I figured it wouldn't hurt.

Since late yesterday -- and continuing all day today -- I've suddenly felt much more tired and fatigued than normal. Also, for some bizarre reason, I feel chronic dry mouth symptoms. Drinking water doesn't alleviate the dry mouth. Is all this negative side effects of the sudden vitamin D increase, do you think?

 

[anderson.bos]

The info I'm getting on this website is giving me pause about taking testosterone cypionate. I'm becoming more aware of the reasons why it's not advisable.

That gets me thinking, however, about what else I could do to increase strength and energy at my age. People here have raised the question of body fat percentage. Does this mean that drastic reduction in body fat percentage can translate into massive reduction in fatigue, tiredness, etc?

Someone please education me on this issue...the basics. Thanks.