Sky high estradiol levels, low cortisol, really scared.

[Duke318]

Hey guys, I've been going through a life transformation, trying to optimize every aspect of my life. I'm experiencing severe adrenal fatigue, poor memory, terrible mood swings, irritability, ADHD symptoms, depression, and more. I've investigated the thyroid, adrenals, signs of inflammation, and now the hormones. Here is where things get scary.

Got these results the other day:

Pregnenolone: 168 ng/dL (04/21/14)
DHEA Sulfate: 392 ug/dL (04/21/14) : 34 - 569
17 Hydroxyprogesterone.: 153 ng/dL (04/21/14)
Androstenedione: 71 ng/dL (04/21/14)
Estradiol Lvl: (H) 237 pg/mL (04/21/14)
Progesterone Level - In House: 0.42 ng/mL (04/21/14)
Cortisol Lvl: (L) 4.4 ug/dL (04/21/14) : 5.0 - 25.0
Testosterone Total-FREET: 396 ng/dL (04/21/14)
Testosterone Free-FREET: 68.4 pg/mL (04/21/14)

My 24-hour saliva Cortisol/DHEA taken on March 18

Morning DHEA: 24.3 (range 2-23)
Morning Cortisol: 0.5 (range 3.7-9.5)
Noon Cortisol: 2.4 (1.2-3.0)
Evening Cortisol: 1.5 (0.6-1.9)
Night Cortisol: 1.4 (0.4-1.0)

Urine Iodine 52.69 (range 100-1100)
Urine Creatinine 3.53 (range 0.3-3.0)

TSH 1.52
Reverse T3 36.6
Free T3 2.9
T4 1.54
No signs of thyroid antibodies

Other things you should know, my ferritin was elevated at 333, and I'm positive for the MTHFR mutation. My Vitamin D was at 33, I managed to bring it up to 70.

I'm hoping the range for that lab was something different than the standard 11-50 estradiol, but regardless, even they say it's high. I am 6'2 and 180 lbs, 25 years old. I used to be a solid 250 lbs when I was 19-20 and competing in strongman. I can't lift seriously right now, when I go into the gym and try I feel like fainting. I have always been completely natural, but I did use SSRI anti-depressants for a long period of time. I know these drugs really screw up the HPA-axis. I'm so weak that I can't train anymore, I feel faint deadlifting 135 lbs. I've also been under a lot of stress the past two years, and I think I'm finally paying for it. I was shocked to hear that I have Low T, because my libido is actually relatively high with no erection problems! I also had severe acne on my upper back from the ages of 16-21, and went on accutane.

I'm seeing an endocrinologist in a few weeks, but I really want to be armed with some quality information before I go in there. She has written articles about Low-T in men being a danger before, so I'm hoping that she's not overly-conservative. My doctor also does bio-identical hormone therapy and he vouched for her. Has anyone ever seen an estradiol level like this before? Should I be worried? I feel like total shit.

 

[Megatron28]

We see estradiol levels like that all the time unfortunately. It is absolutely something to be very worried about. Post your TRT protocol and we should be able to help you dial it in. Injecting smaller doses more frequently often helps (i.e twice a week instead of once a week). Using an Aromatase Inhibitor is often necessary and I am guessing you are not using one currently.

Your testosterone level is still pretty low considering you are going to all the trouble of TRT. Seeing your protocol will shed light on that.

Please make sure to let us know when these lab tests were taken relative to your last test injection.

 

[Duke318]

I have no protocol. i am completely natural. I'm hoping the endocrinologist will give me an Anti-E. Are those estradiol levels seen in natural guys ever?

 

[Duke318]

I guess you could say though, that I have a natural protocol.

My diet is gluten and dairy free, and no soybeans.

My vitamin stack:

NAC
Fish Oil
Cod Liver Oil
B Food Complex (new force)
Primal Defense Ultra probiotic
Aged Garlic Extract
Ubiquinol
Artichoke Extract
Ester-C
Beta Carotene
Pantethine
Vitamin K2
Ashwaghanda
Betaine HCL
Astaxanthin
Vit E + Selenium
Vitamin D3
Iodine
Night time:
Turmeric supplement
Holy Basil
Phosphatidylserine
Magnesium L-threonate

I take the vitamin C with every meal, and pantethine 2x a day.

 

[Alpin]

Estradiol is nasty hi. Get that Feritin lowered. Try a blood donation and recheck after a month to see where Feritin is.
Lay off high iron foods and eat white meat and fish.
Get sleep study done.
Your T aint great but its better than a lot of guys on here.
I'm not overly concerned with it to be honest.

 

[Alpin]

Using SSRIs is anecdotal as far as its T lowering potential.
There is some credence to the theory of it lowering T though. Usually if you are able to ween off it u can compare T levels to see if they have come up back to normal(assuming u know your baseline and have copies of your labs)

 

[Megatron28]

I have personally never seen estradiol levels that high in someone who is not taking testosterone or something else. I have to ask -- are you 100% positive that is estradiol? Could it possibly be Total Estrogens instead? And are you 100% positive it is pg/ml? Can you list the reference range they provided you and list the name of the lab you used?

Start supplementing zinc. It helps reduce estrogen. And continue to keep soy out of your diet. I would also add DIM to your supplementation as it can help clear estradiol out of your body faster.

If you are drinking alcohol or using illicit drugs, stop using them. They are bad for your estrogen profile.

Have you checked your liver values (part of a metabolic panel)? If not get a metabolic panel and CBC. Get a PSA too as estradiol is bad for the prostate.

Do you have gynecomastia?

 

[Megatron28]

Also, can you post your LH and FSH results?

 

[Alpin]

I have personally never seen estradiol levels that high in someone who is not taking testosterone or something else. I have to ask -- are you 100% positive that is estradiol? Could it possibly be Total Estrogens instead? And are you 100% positive it is pg/ml? Can you list the reference range they provided you and list the name of the lab you used?

Start supplementing zinc. It helps reduce estrogen. And continue to keep soy out of your diet. I would also add DIM to your supplementation as it can help clear estradiol out of your body faster.

If you are drinking alcohol or using illicit drugs, stop using them. They are bad for your estrogen profile.

Have you checked your liver values (part of a metabolic panel)? If not get a metabolic panel and CBC. Get a PSA too as estradiol is bad for the prostate.

Do you have gynecomastia?

I take 50 mg ED of zinc. 100 mg if going on a date. Lol
Austinite says its estradiol lowering abilities is weak.
He made a thread on it and said DIM works better for TRT purposes.

 

[Duke318]

My Zinc is actually high, above the range, from supplementing with it too much, so I stopped. Copper is normal though. My liver values are good, although my creatinine levels have been elevated for some time. The test was definitely estradiol, and those results were copy and pasted directly from my doctor. I am going to recheck it next week just to make sure, it is definitely obscenely high. I emailed the doctor for the reference ranges, he didn't give them to me for estradiol for some bizarre reason.

My HDL is a bit low, about 36. Total cholesterol is around 165. All of my other numbers are decent. I forgot to mention, I managed to get my ferritin down to 140 recently through diet, antioxidants, and giving blood one time. Looking to get it around 90.

I haven't checked LH or FSH yet. I'm rechecking estradiol, total and free T, prolactin, and ACTH on monday. Anything else I should add in?

 

[Megatron28]

My Zinc is actually high, above the range, from supplementing with it too much, so I stopped. Copper is normal though. My liver values are good, although my creatinine levels have been elevated for some time. The test was definitely estradiol, and those results were copy and pasted directly from my doctor. I am going to recheck it next week just to make sure, it is definitely obscenely high. I emailed the doctor for the reference ranges, he didn't give them to me for estradiol for some bizarre reason.

My HDL is a bit low, about 36. Total cholesterol is around 165. All of my other numbers are decent. I forgot to mention, I managed to get my ferritin down to 140 recently through diet, antioxidants, and giving blood one time. Looking to get it around 90.

I haven't checked LH or FSH yet. I'm rechecking estradiol, total and free T, prolactin, and ACTH on monday. Anything else I should add in?

The upper limit of the normal range for estradiol is typically 43 pg/ml. He probably didn't want to freak you out.

How about the gyno question?


Labs:

Total Test
LH
FSH
Estradiol Sensitive
Prolactin
CBC
Metabolic Profile
PSA

 

[Alpin]

Your doc ordered the initial blood labs?
Curious as to why CBC was not done earlier
You tested zinc?
First time ive heard bout someone testing that.

 

[Duke318]

I tested a bunch of stuff on my own. Numerous vitamins and minerals, thyroid stuff, etc.

I ran CBC, here's a copy. No gyno, but my nipples have always been kinda puffy looking.

White Cell Count: 5.6 K/UL (04/14/14) 5.8 K/UL (09/27/13) : 3.5 - 10.5
Red Cell Count: 4.88 M/UL (04/14/14) 5.17 M/UL (09/27/13) : 4.30 - 5.80
Hemoglobin: 14.6 g/dL (04/14/14) 15.4 g/dL (09/27/13) : 13.0 - 17.5
Hematocrit HCT: 43.9 % (04/14/14) 46.4 % (09/27/13) : 38.0 - 50.0
MCV: 90 FL (04/14/14) 90 FL (09/27/13) : 80 - 99
MCH: 29.9 pg (04/14/14) 29.8 pg (09/27/13) : 27.0 - 34.0
MCHC: 33.3 % (04/14/14) 33.2 % (09/27/13) : 32.0 - 35.5
RDW: 12.6 % (04/14/14) 12.6 % (09/27/13) : 11.0 - 15.0
Platelet Count: 226 K/UL (04/14/14) 195 K/UL (09/27/13) : 140 - 390
Differential Type: Auto (04/14/14) Auto (09/27/13)
Neutrophils: 66 % (04/14/14) 58 % (09/27/13) : 34 - 73
Lymphocytes: 25 % (04/14/14) 29 % (09/27/13) : 15 - 50
Monocytes: 7 % (04/14/14) 10 % (09/27/13) : 5 - 15
Eosinophils: 2 % (04/14/14) 2 % (09/27/13) : 0 - 8
Basophils: 0 % (04/14/14) 0 % (09/27/13) : 0 - 2
Absolute Neutrophils: 3.7 K/UL (04/14/14) 3.4 K/UL (09/27/13) : 1.5 - 8.0
Absolute Lymphocytes: 1.4 K/UL (04/14/14) 1.7 K/UL (09/27/13) : 1.0 - 4.0
Absolute Monocytes: 0.4 K/UL (04/14/14) 0.6 K/UL (09/27/13) : 0.2 - 1.0
Absolute Eosinophils: 0.1 K/UL (04/14/14) 0.1 K/UL (09/27/13) : 0.0 - 0.6
Absolute Basophils: 0.0 K/UL (04/14/14) 0.0 K/UL (09/27/13) : 0.0 - 0.2
Ferritin: 133.9 ng/mL (04/14/14) : 24.0 - 336.0
Vitamin D 25 Hydroxy: 70.5 ng/mL (04/14/14)

 

[Duke318]

BTW, the more research I do on MTHFR, the more it seems to make sense. MTHFR people are poor at detoxing...and estrogen is detoxed in the liver....also explains the high ferritin, while I'm negative for hemochromatosis. My CYP1A2 enzyme gene was also in the red, which has to do with estrogen metabolism.

I also noticed after my last anti-depressant trial, Viibryd (basically Paxil + buspar), my libido and erection quality decreased. I never had that experience on any other antidepressant (been on a dozen of them so far, done with them forever though).

I do sincerely hope that estradiol level is some kind of lab error, but I have no doubt that it is high. I cry daily, I'm emotionally like a chick, huge anger issues, I overreact to everything, and it's compounded by the low cortisol making my ability to tolerate stress horrific.

But still, I sincerely doubt this has been going on forever. I've always been emotional, but I did manage to deadlift close to 600 lbs drug free @ age 19. Would that even be possible for someone with subpar testosterone levels and high estrogen? IDK, lol.

Today I went to the lab to give blood (my doctor wants to test me for lyme and co-infections), and the nurse stuck me 6 times and no blood came out. I had an emotional breakdown in the parking lot. This whole situation sucks.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Had a quick read through the thread, one thing I can tell you is that SSRI's are not your answer. My T levels were where yours are pre-TRT also but it looks like maybe TRT isn't your one and only answer to this and there is something else at bay. That high e2, for whatever reason, could be the sole cause of the low T levels.

You have never used any AAS/Prohormones before?

Curious, do you have gynecomastia? What is your BF level?

 

[Duke318]

Had a quick read through the thread, one thing I can tell you is that SSRI's are not your answer. My T levels were where yours are pre-TRT also but it looks like maybe TRT isn't your one and only answer to this and there is something else at bay. That high e2, for whatever reason, could be the sole cause of the low T levels.

You have never used any AAS/Prohormones before?

Curious, do you have gynecomastia? What is your BF level?

I've never used any AAS or prohormones. No gyno either, my nips have always been kind of puffy looking though. My bodyfat right now is around 15% at 180 lbs, but I'm not training at all because of the severe adrenal fatigue.

Posted a pic of me at age 19, around 240 lbs, natural with a shit diet and bloated from SSRI's. Notice the extreme back acne.
View attachment 557198

 

[Duke318]

Here's a picture of me last week, about 178 pounds, almost no exercise. My chest has a dip in it and my ribs flair.

Edit: Just tried to take a rear shot, so you can compare to the photo @ 19. Truly pathetic.

View attachment 557200

 

[Alpin]

Had a quick read through the thread, one thing I can tell you is that SSRI's are not your answer. My T levels were where yours are pre-TRT also but it looks like maybe TRT isn't your one and only answer to this and there is something else at bay. That high e2, for whatever reason, could be the sole cause of the low T levels.

You have never used any AAS/Prohormones before?

Curious, do you have gynecomastia? What is your BF level?

SSRIs are not the answer I agree. But G.P.s push them onto their patients as a sole fix for their deteriorating vitality & well being. Whats worse is some G.Ps even suspect or know that the patients T is low but still try to band aid the problem with Anti ds.
I've seen this first hand.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

SSRIs are not the answer I agree. But G.P.s push them onto their patients as a sole fix for their deteriorating vitality & well being. Whats worse is some G.Ps even suspect or know that the patients T is low but still try to band aid the problem with Anti ds.
I've seen this first hand.

SSRI's are never the answer... Unless you suffer from some genetic mutation involving your SERT protein and requires it to be modulated, they are not the answer. And yes, I agree with you, GP's push SSRI's hard. Hell, my family doctor pushed and pushed that I had depression and needed to be on an SSRI and that testosterone was bad and that arimidex is only for people with breast cancer. Needless to say, I no longer line his pockets with my money and live a happy, depression free life amongst other positives.

 

[Alpin]

SSRI's are never the answer... Unless you suffer from some genetic mutation involving your SERT protein and requires it to be modulated, they are not the answer. And yes, I agree with you, GP's push SSRI's hard. Hell, my family doctor pushed and pushed that I had depression and needed to be on an SSRI and that testosterone was bad and that arimidex is only for people with breast cancer. Needless to say, I no longer line his pockets with my money and live a happy, depression free life amongst other positives.

Thats exactly what I went through.